7014...whip it whip it good??

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To whip or not to whip? I guy I work with insists he can run vertical up without whipping. he claims he can run it just like 7018...I call bullsh*t on that. I am still waiting for my demonstration. I was taught you whip 7014. Anyone have any thoughts on this?'Mike
Reply:i have used it on 3F and treated it like 7018, lookes fine just a little more spatter than 7018.a narrow weave. no whipG
Reply:I can run it up with out whipping it. But I don't know the rules.......I usually just run 7018.  7014 is OK stuff and doesn't need an oven.  I run it DCEN on "crisp" with good luck.  Yeah, it spatters a little more and it seems there is nothing I can do about it.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:i was playing with some 7018 yesterday, tried vertical..then tried some 7014dcep...it spattered more, turned it a bit cooler(3/32 around 75 amps).. appeared a little cold on the flat, ok for up..the 7018 appears a bit smoother, 7014 a little scaly..it doesnt seem to fill as well on the sides when i weave..7018 might be flowing a little better.. will try it dcen..same heat or a bit less...?
Reply:It almost has a 232 type look to it when you weld up with it. I have always whipped it but then again I have always used it on DCEP...that may have something to do with it. It seems like it does not want to run up for me without a slight whip. Any insights on heat for 1/8 7014? I seem to be running it about 115ish.'Mike
Reply:I run all 70 series the same. Now to be fair, over the years Ive developed a slight shake in my hand, so that may be considered weaving. I run a straight bead unless i have a gap to fill.
Reply:You are not supposed to whip 70-series rods as slag intrapment is almost garunteed, and their are materials in the flux that are to be mixed into the base metal "iron powder" being one of them. and it is not a fast freeze rod as per 6010 is (cellulose coating). If you were doing any sort of code work (piping) and were caught whipping a 7018 you'd get in alot of ****.
Reply:Pressure welder,You might want to do a search on 7018 before you make that comment again.  You might want to say ...In your experience... because there is much evidence and discussion to appropriate times to "weave" a 7018.  I myself was taught in school to weave a 7014.  But I was taught how to correctly weave too.  A 7018, depending on the pass and other things MAY be woven.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:mmm!i always thought whipping and weaving were different things.G
Reply:The Bible puts it this way Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:In the Bible and various other books I have, stringers and weaving are fully explained both in text and with drawings. Whipping is mentioned in many places and I understand what it is, but when trying to show someone else once, I tried to find a definition, explanation or good description in the books, and I couldn't. Does anyone know where it is well described in the Bible, or elsewhere?I haven't run 7014 in other than horizontal for so long that I can't remember much about doing it! Getting old, I guess.
Reply:I know the difference too... but I was having a momentary mental confusion of the terms. Sorry.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Whipping as explained in the text, as far as I understand it, is moving the arc out of the puddle momentarily.  With a fast freeze, high penetration rod it allows the puddle to freeze by taking the heat away from it momentarily.  Then you dip back in again to deposit more metal, thus building the bead as you're goin' uphill.  It's done only on stringers.I do it with 6011.  You move the stick out of the puddle, lengthen the arc, but keep the arc going.  Off to the side, or up ahead of the puddle (off to the side works better).  No metal is deposited by the lengthened arc, it just keeps it going so you don't have to restart it when you go back into the puddle again.More from the Bible (Best damn resource on the planet) Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:If you have trouble reading 'em, I can re take, and upload again"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Hell, I couldn't read those, so here's another try Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by gordfrasermmm!i always thought whipping and weaving were different things.G
Reply:Originally Posted by paweldorYou beat me to it.  Whipping is a back and forth motion in the same direction as the weld bead.  Weaving is a back and forth motion (side to side) perpendicular to the direction of the weld.I NEVER whip any 70 series electrodes, but WEAVE the dog fire out of them in multi pass welds.  As one poster mentioned, whipping a 70 series rod will almost guarantee slag entrapment.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammMaybe I got it wrong then.  I figured whipping on a flat or horizontal weld is exactly as you just described.  You move the rod back into the puddle instead of away from it.  It never leaves the puddle.But going up, the rod leaves the puddle for a milisecond to allow the metal to begin freezing.This strictly applies to a first pass stringer in the root.  And only to E60XXPlease don't tell me I'm wrong
Reply:The terminology is confusingLike this horizontal butt weld.  Most folks say it's whipped.  I guess it's the same thing but here it's back OVER/INTO the cooling metal, instead of away from it.  Weld travel was from right to left 7018(my new found love) Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Sam, your bead looks too big to me.  SO CAN YOU WHIP 6013?David  RReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Same weld with 6013 doesn't seem to look as good.  I have some on the loader, I'll fish up the pics.I always make too big of a bead I guess.  I like to lap it over each side of the joint."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I found an old 35mm pic, and had to go out and freeze my butt off to take some new ones.  I think I deleted all the weld pics of the loader shortly after I joined the site.Anyhow same type of horizontal weld with 6013...........  Deeper void, so the bead is more confined, not like on the 11ga tubing Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Built that whole doggone loader with 6013"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:A few more from the stock trailer restoration.  12ga to 14ga sheet metal.  I had the rod pointed almost straight up, and was movin' like hell.  Both the loader, and the trailer were done before I got the DC capable machine.  It's all AC on this stuffNever could get the 6013 to run uphill worth a damn, that's why I'm crazy about the 7018 on DC.  I got a fightin' chance now at makin' some decent uphill welds Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:SO CAN YOU WHIP 6013?  I don't.  Should have clarified that, I only whip 6010/11.  Any rod that has flux coating that becomes part of the weld, I don't whip.Sam, you're gonna love that DC machine.  Good Luck with it.
Reply:I hope I can get it all figured out"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Ok so to recap my question is about 7014 NOT 7018. One can not classify all 70 series as being run the same. I know full well that you run 7010 the same way you run 6010. So again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT 7018. I am asking how you all run 7014 and what amperages do you recomend for 1/8 7014 in the vertical UP position.Thanks.'Mikep.s I have found myself whipping 7018 in a handful of situations. Not desireable though.
Reply:"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Ballbark (ie from a real bad memory)i'd run 14 around the same as 18110-125Abe a good place to start if not.GG
Reply:Originally Posted by ironman715Ok so to recap my question is about 7014 NOT 7018. One can not classify all 70 series as being run the same. I know full well that you run 7010 the same way you run 6010. So again I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT 7018. I am asking how you all run 7014 and what amperages do you recomend for 1/8 7014 in the vertical UP position.Thanks.'Mikep.s I have found myself whipping 7018 in a handful of situations. Not desireable though.
Reply:For one in my opinion the flux is way to heavy to try and whip a 7014 A 7014 is not a 7018, and can't be run like one.  I have whipped 7018 at times without a problem, but it's not my preferred method.  To be honest I have had worse luck trying to whip a 6013 than any other rod.  I almost always end up with slag pockets.  I generally stick to xx10/xx11 rods for whipping.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:There should be a LAW against 6010-6011  ! anybody who has a good D C machine should avoid 60 series rod like the plague . In my apprenticeship , after i had learned to use 6010 , the instructor told us "forget about 6010  now. You are starting over, with 7018. He said "you will now LIKE the 7018 , after all that misery with 6010-6011". He was right. We had to pass X-ray tests ,before we were allowed to weld on U S NAVY ships , especially submarines. And, whipping the rod was considered  sabotage. Also , NO verticle down was allowed on ANY structural steel in the ships . The width of the welds( beads) only allowed = 2&1/2 times diameter of the electrode.[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweldPressure welder,You might want to do a search on 7018 before you make that comment again.  You might want to say ...In your experience... because there is much evidence and discussion to appropriate times to "weave" a 7018.  I myself was taught in school to weave a 7014.  But I was taught how to correctly weave too.  A 7018, depending on the pass and other things MAY be woven.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_Welding  I almost always end up with slag pockets.  I generally stick to xx10/xx11 rods for whipping.
Reply:Thanks kids. I may try running it on DCEN and see how that works out. I could not get what I considered a decent looking vertical UP with 7014. Vertical DOWN looks good but its also a different beast all together. Thanks for the insights guys.'Mike
Reply:This is a circle that's doing my head in!!You CAN whip 7018.  If you've done a root on pipe then you'd better be able to whip a 7018, if you can't then you haven't done much pipe.  (To Xray standard).  In Australia they used to do a massive amount of it, don't know if they still do, but I'd guess there is still a lot of it going on.Preassure_Welder:   I am impressed about you having a s/s stick ticket, that's something I've never tried to do - and in all honesty wouldn't like to try either.Roy Hodges:  Bull****, in fact I'm on a 6010 job now, and getting paid the best I've ever been paid.   In fact you should go talk to that guy again, the best money going is almost always 6010/7010/8010I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:I was doing a 1/2" fillet today vertical up with 7018.  Its a weave if the whole puddle stays molten.  Its a whip if the puddle cools and the rod is out of it.Just my $.02David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:So after looking at my Lincoln product catolog snd it says 7014 is good in these positions:1G/1F2G2F3G/3F DOWN4G/4Frecomended amps:3/32 80-1001/8  110-1505/32  140-1903/16  180-260So according to Lincoln the 7014 I was using is not good in the 3G or 3F (vertical) UP position.Thought I would pass this along.'Mike
Reply:I disagree, go here http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...et.aspx?p=5571Or here page 17    http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ature/c210.pdfOr here under extra info  http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/f...d_sw15_ip_7014I always thought 3G implied vertical up, but I could be wrong.   All 3 of those web pages show vertical up for 7014.David Last edited by David R; 01-12-2009 at 06:42 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:According to the bible 6012, 6013, 6019, and 7014 are all fill freeze electrodes.  It describes a vertical down technique and vertical up technique.Vertical Down:  Use stringer beads or a slight weave.  A drag technique must be used with some 6012 electrodes.  Make small beads point the electrode up so the arc force pushes the molten metal back up the joint.  Move fast enough to stay ahead of the molten pool.  Use currents in the higher range...Vertical Up :  Use a triangular weave.  Weld a shelf on the bottem of the joint and add layer upon layer.  Do not whip or take the electrode out of the molten pool.  Point the electrode up to help control the molten pool.  Travel slow enough to maintain the shelf without spilling.  Use currents in the lower range.And there ya have it, right from the source.  The bible was written by Lincoln Electric and they have been at this for years, im sure they know what they're talking about...Last edited by Newfie_1986; 01-12-2009 at 10:05 AM.
Reply:I KNEW I should have checked my bible. What page(s) in the bible? And by Bible I assume you mean the Lincoln Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding.I swear I have literature FROM Lincoln that says 3G/3F vertical down for 7014. Hmmn.Pages in the Bible???Thanks guys.'Mike
Reply:Page 6.2-10 in my edition Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Same page as in my bible.  I love this damn book.  It touches on so much info.  A great resource to have.  When I finish school and go to work welding it will be kept in the truck for sure.....
Reply:It looks good on paper, but one day you'll have a really big gap in a poor fitup.You'll whip that baby harder than a bad porno flickDid I really say that?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIt looks good on paper, but one day you'll have a really big gap in a poor fitup.You'll whip that baby harder than a bad porno flickDid I really say that?
Reply:from here it seems top say vertical up--weave and dont whip...in fact, either one will get the arc away from the puddle for long enough for it to cool and support the next puddle..yes?
Reply:Thanks guys. This site rocks.'Mike
Reply:So I ran some more 7014 today and ran it at the lower end of the range. I started at about 95ish then went down to about 85 and that was nice until the piece got HOTT. It seems if I moved fast and stayed in the lower part of the amps it welded up just fine. Still does not look like 7018 but still looks good. Thanks for all the help.'Mike
Reply:It is interesting to see all of the suggestions on using 7014 and 7018. This is an interesting topic because the designation lets us know all there is to know about the electrode. the numbers represent the following: the first two numbers represent the tensile strength in thousands on pounds, the next number represents the position that the rod can be used (1 all and 2 flat and horizontal) and finally the last number represents the type of flux or coating. it is the last number that lets us know how to set the welding machine. In this case the 4 tells us that the coating is rutile and contains approx 30% iron powder and the 8 tells us that it is a low hydrogen rod and contains approx.25% iron powder. We also learn the polarity in which to operate the machine from the last number. So now lets look at making a sound weld with these rods.Because both of these rods have a soft arc and are slow freeze type coatings it is imperative that a short arc is maintained at all times. When weaving from side to side it is accepted practice to maintain the weave to not more than 3x the wire diameter. The weave should progress upward in a tight z pattern without pausing at the sides with the upward motion leaving approx 1/2 of the rod on new material and the other 1/2 on the previous weldment. It is critical that the welding machine be set according to the manufactures suggestions which my be found on the packaging in some cases. If you cannot find the recommended operating range for the electrode take a piece of scrape and adjust the amperage until the electrode will not stick ( low end) and does not turn red (high end) before it is less than 2 inches long. Somewhere between these two point will be a place where your individual skill set will be able to manipulate the rod to place a sound weld.Hope this helps.