How much experience before building a loft bed?

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Hi there, I'm a new member to this forum. I just started welding and did a 2 day intro course on welding and have done practice at home as well. I am really not very good I must say.I have a cheap ($140 AU) 130Amp AC Stick Welder that does 2mm (1/16") - 3.2mm (3/32") rods My goal is to build a loft bed (raised bed with an office desk underneath) with probably thick square steel tubing - for a double bed. I run a small IT business so I am looking to have the office desk underneath (replacing my cheap Ikea setup)Spec Dimensions : 1900mm (6.23ft) high (the bed will be resting on a frame at this height) 2000mm (6.56ft) long 1400mm (4.59ft) deep Looking at 3mm (3/32") thickness of the steel and maybe 80mm (3.14") wide for the main structural supports Weight requirementsAbout 130kg working load (2 people) + the weight of mattressI guess my question is, I am very new to welding and I not quite sure my skills are up to par to be trusting my welds on something that I will be sleeping on for safety reasons (and I have computer equipment beneath).  At what stage do you know you're ready to do a project like this? Would it be best to get a welding qualification first? Or just practice and maybe get someone to take a look at some of the welds? ThanksLast edited by flashburn; 06-04-2012 at 07:22 AM.
Reply:1st a few assumptions... 1: I'm guessing you are of average weight. 2: I'm guessing this would be a single bed. and 3 I'm guessing you aren't going to be doing any jumping or acrobatic extracurricular activities on the bed....For something like this even light weight bolts would work, so as long as your welds would hold at least your weight ( safety factor of at least 2, since I doubt all your weight would really be on just one weld all at once) you should be fine. Joint design would also play some what of a role as for example if you over lapped the pieces in the corners, you'd have more lap joint surface area than you would if you just butted the pieces together. More weld length would allow the weight to be spread over a larger area and thus you could afford to have a few more errors.I think a bed frame would certainly rate as a beginner level project. If in doubt, design it so you can build the frame and attach it to legs with bolts. Then you can always set the frame on some blocks and jump on the bed to "shock" test it. If it should fail, you are only a few inches off the ground. Just fix the issue and retest..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I've been considering building something similar and have a few design recommendations.For something that large, you may want to build it in pieces that can be disassembled for moving. I am planning to build the end leg assemblies and the mattress platform as individual rectangular units that are then bolted together. The assemblies would be welded together in their rectangular structure with holes for connecting them together. This would allow for easier moving and storage when disassembled.I like DSW's idea on stress testing it and will probably have to steal it for my own testing purposes.
Reply:as for stress testing..industrial stuff is rated lower than it is tested for a safety factor..so by all means test this out with a big fluffy chick and a twelvepack..
Reply:Draw up your plans, if you have not done so already, and post a picture. Your plans are just as important as your welding skills, and there are people with experience that may be able to help you avoid some pitfalls in design.To test your ability, make a test sample. Get some scraps of the material you intend to use, and make a joint in the same configuration that you intend to weld on your bed. Weld it up, and then try to break it, a good weld will be stronger than the base material, so if the weld fails before the material near the weld, you need more practice. The destructive testing will also give you a better understanding of the strength of the joint.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:I've turned my kids old fullsized loft bed into overhead storage in the garage and my current light weight welding table and still have lots of metal left over for other future projects. I definately recomend building it in sections. the frame We had was from Ikea so it was set for flat stack storage the different parts can be assembled in place and were light enough that one person could lift them, though two people make the process SO much easier. Where as there were welded joints, most of it was just bolted together. most of the welds weren't much more then spot welds, but there were a couple that were your typical mechanical poop weld. (super quick robot assembly)There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by flashburnHi there, I'm a new member to this forum. I just started welding and did a 2 day intro course on welding and have done practice at home as well. I am really not very good I must say.I have a cheap ($140 AU) 130Amp AC Stick Welder that does 2mm (1/16") - 3.2mm (3/32") rods My goal is to build a loft bed (raised bed with an office desk underneath) with probably thick square steel tubing - for a double bed. I run a small IT business so I am looking to have the office desk underneath (replacing my cheap Ikea setup)Spec Dimensions : 1900mm (6.23ft) high (the bed will be resting on a frame at this height) 2000mm (6.56ft) long 1400mm (4.59ft) deep Looking at 3mm (3/32") thickness of the steel and maybe 80mm (3.14") wide for the main structural supports Weight requirementsAbout 130kg working load (2 people) + the weight of mattressI guess my question is, I am very new to welding and I not quite sure my skills are up to par to be trusting my welds on something that I will be sleeping on for safety reasons (and I have computer equipment beneath).  At what stage do you know you're ready to do a project like this? Would it be best to get a welding qualification first? Or just practice and maybe get someone to take a look at some of the welds? Thanks
Reply:I'm just a dam Bed Frame Welder (TM).  A BFM is not someone who welds up and builds bed frames, and it's not a compliment.  It's a disparaging term used by real welders to separate them from hacks who try to build trailers and gantry cranes out of cheap bedframes they scrapped up and ran cold welds with no penetration.So, that said, I will offer two pieces of advice.  The first is you are ready when your welds are ready, when your ability to control distortion is ready, and when your design abilities are ready.  My suggestion is to use materials and design that will make it easier to deal with and control distortion.You can test your welds as suggested - beat them, cut them, inspect them and take photos.  Post those with your design and TAKE the really good advice you will find from the pros.  I'd ask for advice on designs, jigs, etc. to help keep it all straight and true.  I find that's my biggest challenge especially on thinner gauge steel.  Hope that helps some.
Reply:Flashburn, keep your eyes peeled for a bedframe that someone has tossed out. I see them all the time and often grab them to use the angle to make stuff.In your case, you will keep it intact. You will know it can support the weight because it's a bed frame and presumably has been doing that before somebody tossed it out.So all you need are four legs with diagonal bracing.As DSW said, putting it together with bolts might be the way to go. That way you can move it easily.Of course, you don't get to do any welding that way. Maybe if you find a second bed frame you can pull it apart and weld up some books shelves - or a ladder to get up onto that bed.Yeah, I carry.House keys, wallet, some change, usually a newspaper, maybe a pen.
Reply:Flashburn, I gather you are an Aussie, where abouts are you located? It's highly unlikely that you are near me but would be happy to give you guidance on the off chance you were close!Your materials choice sounds strong enough, just the design and the welding to be assesed.Cheers Andrew
Reply:I built a couple of setups just like your thinking of in college.   two out of wood and one out of steel    The steel one was purely bolt together in place due to the fact of not wanting to have to cut it apart to get it back out of the building.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadas for stress testing..industrial stuff is rated lower than it is tested for a safety factor..so by all means test this out with a big fluffy chick and a twelvepack..
Reply:Thank you all for your input - I have done some sketches and will address a few issues that came up Before I do that - I currently have a crappy Ikea loft bed: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S59872897/ Do you think for a temporary measure I could use a flap disc to remove the epoxy powder coating and braze the joints using MAPP gas to get a better fit? (The bed currently squeaks to no end and moves around a lot - no matter how much WD-40 or tightening of the bolts)(steel on Ikea loft bed only 1mm (3/64") - stick welder will blow a hole straight thru)I have done a very rough design of new bed project: http://s16.postimage.org/dg3xbm3lx/loftbedbeta.jpgTo the issues: DSW: 1. I am 165 lbs (75 kg) - need it to support 2 people of about this weight2. It is a double bed (will need to weld it in the bedroom - frame most likely won't fit through the door if welded outside) 3. I would hope it would be designed to support "normal" bedroom activities that 2 people engage it4. Like the shock test idea!DanT: Don't mind about portability - don't intend to move in next 5 years - if I do I'll just cut it with an angle grinder and probably use the metal for a different projectHow do you bolt together the legs to the frame if using square steel tubing? Instead of butt joint - you lap them and going the bolt straight through? weldbead: All in the name of "safety testing"fortyonethirty: Have drawn up some rough plans today: http://s16.postimage.org/dg3xbm3lx/loftbedbeta.jpgThorsHammer: You probably had the same one as me. You know what - when we were assembling it I put some weight on the top frame and the bolt snapped in half and I fell down onto the other person underneath! Ikea sent new bolt but I mean geez - cheap quality - but to be fair has held up since thenroadkillbobb:Thanks!edit: just noticed some new responsesRodJ:lol, I have been wanting to build one of these for about 9 years (only picked up welding a month ago) - had considered wood for a long time but steel is the way to go - so being a Bed Frame Welder is ok with me!Thanks - will post some pics of my welds too shortly! scott brunsdon: Killer idea there - actually did not think of that until you mentioned it. I'd probably go something thicker metal though unless it was a good quality one they chucked - as I tend to punch straight through the thinner stuff I find lying around on the street - and lower amps don't strike an arc - it's a cheap machine FODFA: yep I'm an Aussie - Sydney city area is me Dualie: Cool did you happen to have any pics of it? Did it squeak or move around or feel a bit wobbly (my Ikea one does..) Haven't been on any others so my perception of how sturdy a loft bed can be is limitedjbmprods: You had me at "2 considerably less than fluffy chicks"Last edited by flashburn; 06-05-2012 at 10:59 AM.Reason: noticed some new replies
Reply:The way it will be constructed/welded you won't likely encounter a catastrophic failure- just too many welds on the thing so if one fails it won't be a major deal.As far as Rootin around up there the Loft will move quite a bit since you will have a higher center of gravity and most likely shake yer computer stuff off the lower shelf/desk Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:quick design philosophy note:If someone could be injured if the item fails, make it waay stronger than you think you need. It doesn't have to race or fly, so make it stronger.Either that, or you can do a more detailed design analysis with all the appropriate safety factors on materials, workmanship, design, vibration, fatigue (the materials, not you!   ), and so forth.re: "fluffy chicks"  Your call as to the desired method of doing a "proof test" for an overload condition.  One 'fluffy' chick, two 'regular' chicks, three petite little things, etc, etc.  Oh wait, you're from Oz.    Let's see if I can put it in Aussie-speak for you.Go find a Sheila or a bird who's a bit over in the tonnage from too many crisps and bikkies, such that she needs a lorry and not a Holden Barina to git about, and an esky of goon or cleanskin and root her and see if the bed goes bung.  How'd I do mate?  As to the bed welding, I'd go more for maybe welding on the mounting brackets and then bolting the long(er) pieces together.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseOh wait, you're from Oz.    Let's see if I can put it in Aussie-speak for you.Go find a Sheila or a bird who's a bit over in the tonnage from too many crisps and bikkies, such that she needs a lorry and not a Holden Barina to git about, and an esky of goon or cleanskin and root her and see if the bed goes bung.  How'd I do mate?
Reply:Broccoli1: You think any way to counter-act the higher centre of gravity to stop or reduce movement with lots of corner bracing? Shame I can't bolt it to the floor or wall really.MoonRise: Cool yeh that's good thinking - making it very strong - going out for a trip to the scrapyard to see what I can find to practice on. Yeh you had a good crack at it!! Have not heard those words used in forever so it's a good reminder of our native language!! FODFA: I think if I take pics of the welds and bed and get some advice I think I can avoid the worst scenario of falling straight through because of newbie error - posting some pics of some welding I did a few mins ago in a new thread