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Newbie welder switching over from 1/8" 6011 to 1/8" 7014. Lincoln SA-200 welder (old).I'm trying to learn how to weld with the 70 series rods and am just befuddled with how inconsistent my welding is and I can't figure out just what I'm doing wrong.I've added a couple of pics (sorry the first one is blurred, but I needed to show it). This was scrap metal that I was practicing on. The beginning of the weld was really irratic - spitting, popping, sputtering. Then the machine seemed to settle down and things were a lot better. The next two pictures are the work that I'm doing and I'm getting a whole lot of slag inclusion and I don't know why. The fire at the working end is jumping around a lot. It I get any closer to the work, I bury it in the puddle. I can see bubbles forming in the puddle and I don't know why. I'm running these in first gear at 100 amps.The Lincoln seems to really struggle from time to time. Could this be the problem (I know I am a problem, but I'm looking for something else). Would this get better if I ran it hotter?I did some work two days ago with the same rods and setting and the slag peeled off in one chunk with my fingernail. Today I have to use a jackhammer to get the slag off. ????There were a lot of other welds for me to take pictures of, but I would go back and try and fix it just to make it worse. So, I would grind and reweld, but not very successfully. Thank you. Attached Images
Reply:try grinding clean the metal to start off with...rust doesnt make for good welding...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:how did your weld come out with the 6011?Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Looks like your rod angle is incorrect on the bottom pic. You have more metal deposited on the virticle piece than on the horizontal piece. On that weld you need to raise the stinger higher up and deposite more metal on the flat piece of steel. When you strike your arc, quickly get the tip of the rod down and allow the puddle to forum. As you start your travel, drag the puddle behind you while maintaining the same rod angle and travel speed throughout the weld. Keep the top of the rod angled slightly in the dirrection of travel. I like to run 1/8 7014 at 125 ish amps. Keep a very short arc with 7014/7018/7024 rods as too long of an arc will cause loss of shielding issues and porosity.Last edited by snoeproe; 06-01-2012 at 03:08 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Easy.1/8" 7014 needs to be run at 120-160 amps. You're way too cold, and your arc length is also too long. 100 amps is OK for 6011, but 7014 has a bulkier flux coating so it takes more current to melt it efficiently.The fact that your arc goes out when you try to keep it short can be a clue that current isn't high enough. Also, make sure you're running electrode positive.Hope this helps.Last edited by Joshfromsaltlake; 06-01-2012 at 03:19 PM.
Reply:Joshfromsaltlake - 7014 / 7024 series are problematic even for experienced welders. Don't waste your time trying to learn usingthem. Start out with 6010 / 6011 and turn up the heat. At your stageyou should be concerned with burning an entire rod. Extra hot will help you do this. Once you can burn an entire rod, dial down the heat closer to a proper weld setting and only then concentrate on looks. Opus
Reply:Master 6011 and 6013 then move to other rods. 6010 can be picky about the machine it is ran from.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:one problem is seeing the flowing puddle and maintainig rod speed in response to how the puddle is filling up the groove. 7014 always to me seemed a more fluid slag..go back to 6011 or try 7018..you need to see the metal building up near the arc and not move too fast,which is allowing slag to fill the void..slow down until you see puddle fill up nice and you wont get those incluysions....
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROJoshfromsaltlake - 7014 / 7024 series are problematic even for experienced welders. Don't waste your time trying to learn usingthem.
Reply:I don't know anything about an sa-200 (it is a portable isn't it?), but on my Ranger the idle will only rev up when you strike an arc, or touch the rod to steel. Then it runs full out, and starting an arc is very easy, and it runs good and hot. You can run full throttle to get around this feature.After the rod is lit, hold it a while at the start of the bead to warm up the puddle. Then push it in till it feels like it's riding on the steel.Then start dragging the puddle along behind your travel.As you progress, move the rod from side to side to contact the toes of the weld bead (the outer edges). Not very far, maybe 3/16-1/4". As you do this, allow the puddle to follow you without overrunning the arc. Angle your rod enough to push the puddle back as you travel.The puddle is the very liquid looking stuff between the arc at the tip of the rod, and a darkish line at the back of the puddle (the line is the cooling slag). It can be hard to concentrate on because very often the arc will tend to blind you somewhat. You really have to concentrate in the area I just mentioned above. I may have the beginnings of cataracts which makes this a problem, as the glare from the arc tends to wash out the puddle sometimes. I find that the gold filter lenses will eliminate this problem completely.To learn to establish the height of the bead, look at the line of cooling slag, it will tell you how the filler metal is depositing. Once you see this, you can then learn to concentrate on the puddle full time.What appears to be "bubbles" in the puddle is generally slag rising to the surface of the molten puddle. It should disappear once it's on top of the puddle. At least that's what I think you're seeing.You can't run 1/8 7018 at 100amps and have much success. You should be somewhere above 125amps. Slag inclusions you're seeing in the finished bead are a sign of running too cool I believe. You'll notice the slag is below the weld and inside the weld.I sometimes run 7018 which hasn't been stored properly. To be honest, they still make nice looking welds. I don't subscribe to the notion that the only way you can run a decent looking weld with 7018 is if it's fresh from an oven. The issues arising from "wet" rods is generally not seen by the naked eye (underbead cracking, etc.). You can learn just fine with room stored rods. Just don't leave them out in the rain Contrary to DSW (just my preferance, not a rule) I find the burnoff rate on 7014 and 7024 to be pretty high, and hard to control when just figuring out how to run a welder. The melt off rate on 7018 is slower, and allows you to develop your technique without worrying about having to outrun the puddle. This is just my opinion, and doesn't mean I'm right. But the two rods ARE high deposition rods 7018 can be slow and steady, or fast and furious, depending on the amps you can handle while traveling faster/slower.While learning see if Forney rods are available in your area. They're considerably cheaper if bought in bulk, and run ok. Once you've become happy with your efforts then you'll want to try Lincoln Excalibur "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Keep practicing, you stink. It's a high paying phsically taxing skilled trade for a reason.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:And i don't care what anybody says!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it conducts electricity, you can weld it. Don't get bogged down in making everything completely rust freeconcentrate on the puddle, then you can get sanitary once you've learned to weld :d:d"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Way too cold.I see you mentioned that the slag just peeled off at some point. If I had to guess, I'd say that particular pass was made on a hot plate, and wasn't a joint weld like what you posted, rather just another pass over an existing weld. Just keep practicing. Don't be afraid to go hotter.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:OK, consensus is that I am too cold. Agree. Before I came back to the forum I went back out and changed some settings on the welder. Moved to second gear and 50 amps on the fine (still don't know where this is in reality). Ran a couple of test weld on scrap metal and then moved to the project.The first pic is with 1/8" 7014 at 150(?) amps. The behaviour was much better, but the slag was still really hard to get off. This is a 5" piece of steel and I used up the whole rod.The second pic is with a 7018 (I ran out of 7014s) run at the same current. At some point in time I upped the current to 170 but this was too hot and was really digging deep. Deeper that I wanted, so I dialed it back down to 155. For the second pic I ground all the surfaced to be welded before I started thinking that even a little bit of rust would be a problem. I didn't see much difference in the slag removal. I still had to peck at it real hard to chip it off.A thought I had this morning: The day that I had slag that I could peel off with my finger, all in one piece I ran pretty cold. And, this was the first weld of the day. However, this was a different piece of steel and in better condition that the channel iron I was welding to yesterday. The channel iron was a lot older. Is it possible that some steel will produce more slag than others? And, does even a little bit of rust make a difference on the work. Keep in mind that I have been using 6011s up to now and wouldn't have thought twice about it.One viewer commented on bad angle - got it. This was an easy weld and I got on my knees so I wouldn't have to bend over and totally blew it. I just didn't know why. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearne Moved to second gear and 50 amps on the fine (still don't know where this is in reality).
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeKeep practicing, you stink.
Reply:EDIT - woops, I took too long typing and didn't see DSW helped you. Ignore everything I say below. Also, the you stink comment and your reply made me spit my coffee out. I'm no expert but even to my eye those are badly undercut (experts will chime in "ya think, Mr. Welding Inspector?" Are you dragging the rod? I ask because it should be right in there, no more arc legnth than the flux/metal contact will allow. Longer the arc, the higher voltage but lower amps. In my little brain, I keep this in mind: amps = heat = fill. I think if you long arc it's hard to fill in unless you waddle around in the gap but I think it's a losing battle and you get undercutting (there's other ways to do it, too, but that's one of them).Also on that first picture, the gap looks wider at the end than the beginning. Tack up that end before you start otherwise it's going to expand and gap get wider and in more trouble - hard to keep a tight arc and rod in contact with the metal if the gap is wider than the rod.If no one else chimes in, I'd go back outside, set that gap, tack it. Then strike your arc, angle your rod tipping forward, and keep the rod in contact with the metal, dragging along the surface. no whipping, nothing. Adjust your speed as necessary to allow the metal to fill in along the sides. If the slag starts catching up to your rod, tip the rod more to blow it back.When that fails, you can come back to the computer and someone with experience and knowledge will have provided better advice. Last edited by RodJ; 06-02-2012 at 10:48 AM.
Reply:The machine I'm using doesn't have ranges - just 'min' , 100, 150, 200, and 'max' . I know there is a range, I just don't know what it is.When watching the puddle, as compared to the 6011s which I'm used to, the 7014/7018s generate a huge puddle behind me. I see the arc, the red hot molten pool around the rod, and the brown streaks that continue to emanate from it and collect in the rear and slowly turn dark. This mass of activities is a lot larger than what the 6011s produce and often overshadow the edges of my work. So, it's a little harder to know what's going on underneath. Only after I remove the slag and look at the results can I see.Still waiting for that "Ah Ha" moment.
Reply:Your welds are far less stinkier today, big improvement. Follow what DSW said and you'll be on the right path. I was laughing as well when I wrote that. A kick in the butt is still a step foward. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJAlso on that first picture, the gap looks wider at the end than the beginning. Tack up that end before you start otherwise it's going to expand and gap get wider....
Reply:The first picture is actually a little misleading. I was going to take some more but forgot to put the SD card back in and only had the camera's memory to store in.What looks to be a gap is just a shadow - bad photography. Hard to get a good picture in full sun.If the 7014 should remain in physical contact with the workpiece, then can I just let it 'melt in place' and not drag it at all? Or, is the rod just supposed to be really close and not actually touching?
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbhow did your weld come out with the 6011?
Reply:7018 usually like when you hold a bit longer arc than simply dragging it on the plate. That's why generally we start students with 7014 vs simply jumping right to 7018.Here's a comparison I did for Rick V a while back showing the difference simply changing arc length on 7018 can cause.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=58537I'd be curious to see some of your welds with 6011. Usually that's a bit tougher for guys to make nice looking welds. Your comment saying you are running 6011 at lower amps makes me wonder if you are really getting decent penetration into the base material. most of the time that's the primary reason for running 6010/11 other than simply using it to close up a root to run an open root 7018 joint.Last edited by DSW; 06-02-2012 at 05:15 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWHuh? 7024 is probably about the easiest rod to work with and 7014 isn't all that far behind. I can't see any experienced welder having any issues with those rods at all.Both are drag rods....
Reply:Last time I went into town I stopped at AOC and requested some 7014s and they had to be ordered. So, I picked up a pound at TSC (for the same price as 5lb at AOC) and used them to practice and see how I liked them. Up to then I had been using 6011s and getting used to their behavior. Using the 7014s in the same fashion and current was really hard. So, the pictures go in and advice comes back - really good advice.Now, I am looking forward to picking up the 5lb box of 7014s and continuing the learning curve.Below are some older pics of the welds I have been doing with the 6011s. Can't remember all the conditions of these welds. Some of them I don't even know where they are on the work piece. But, they all are pretty typical of the work I have been doing up to now. These are some of my better welds (remember the sick goat?).The advice on these was that I am moving too fast, not waiting for the puddle to fill, I am inconsistent with my arc length and I have a tendency to move around as the wind blows.Now, with the 7014s I understand that I am a little too slow (overcompensated).The first pic is the completed tube made from two pieces of angle iron. This is the tongue of the finished piece.The second pic is a closeup of the corner of the tube. This is a line of 7018 right after a 6011. I probably turned up the heat on the 7018 to about 140. The 6011 was probably run about 90.The third pic is a typical screw up that I welded over. Done with 6011s.The fourth pic is one of my last welds. Can't remember where this one was or what orientation the welding was. At this point I am starting to slow down and let the puddle catch up to me. Attached ImagesOriginally Posted by DSWHuh? 7024 is probably about the easiest rod to work with and 7014 isn't all that far behind. I can't see any experienced welder having any issues with those rods at all.Both are drag rods. Hold the flux in contact with the plate and move at a nice steady pace using the right amps and it's hard not to make a nice weld in the flat position. The slag will tell you when your travel speed/ angle is right as the flux will just peal up and flake off with no effort. On average I find most stick students can produce the most consistent, nice beads using 7014 when they first get started. It's a good rod to learn with as it builds confidence in their skills and gives them a rod that they can repeatedly reproduce good beads with for average noncritical projects. It also doesn't have the storage issues 7018 does that can often complicate things at the early stages of learning. Many times it's hard for students to recognize if the problems they are having is simply coming from poorly stored, damp 7018 or if it's simply their lack of skill and inconsistent welding that's causing the issues.Good luck.
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearne This is a line of 7018 right after a 6011. I probably turned up the heat on the 7018 to about 140.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueArcJust to clarify, this pictures was 7018 over 6011, at 140 amps?If so, that looks really cold for what I'm assuming is 1/8th rod. Also, if you're welding over a previous weld, you're going to have to spend more time in the corners burning in to the piece and not just the toe of the existing weld.Lastly, watch the puddle. Go into the corners and wait for the puddle to fill up to the arc, then move. I guarantee that all of a sudden this is going to get really easy for you.
Reply:.... Care to say what exactly "the project" is?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueArcJust to clarify, this pictures was 7018 over 6011, at 140 amps?
Reply:The Project - work in progress Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW7018 usually like when you hold a bit longer arc than simply dragging it on the plate. That's why generally we start students with 7014 vs simply jumping right to 7018.Here's a comparison I did for Rick V a while back showing the difference simply changing arc length on 7018 can cause.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=58537t.
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearneThe Project - work in progress
Reply:The welder is an old Lincoln SA-200, gasoline powered for those not familiar. The range selector does not have ranges listed, just values - min, 100, 150, 200, max. The second most important machine is the front end loader I use to turn it over and weld on the bottom. this is what the bolt are in it for - to hold it together until it gets welded. There were four braces I had to put it the front because it was a little flimsy which were my first introduction to welding upside down. I would rather leave that for the pros. Welded over them as soon as I turned it over.I would be happy to take more pics of the welds (even though most of them are kinda embarrassing). You will see a lot of weld overs on them. Not to mention undercutting, slag inclusion, too fast, too slow, too hot, too cold. A lot of these are shown in the beginning of this post, also more are in the previous post with a similar title.The manager/owner of the ranch has to work for a living since cattle prices aren't paying the bills, so I've started learning the trade to take care of needs around the ranch. My very first project was a hay manger (for 6 foot round bales) made out of 2 and 3 inch pipe. This is where DSW informed me that I probably couldn't have picked a worse way to start learning how to weld. Come to think of it, that's what the pics were of in the first post, I think. There are no pics of my first manger - that got finished and put out to pasture (way out). But, it works.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcDamn mishearne, I just love big projects like that! Nice pics. Can you post some close up pics of the individual weld beads if you get a chance?Thnx
Reply:I can't seriously comment on the welds because I'm not good enough, but they are definitely better than before - you've really improved greatly. Congratulations. On the 7014 issue, they are different stregth steel from 6010 and 6013. 70,000 vs. 60,000. 7014 can run on AC but a 6010 can't. A 7014 is a high deposit rod. It's a pure drag rod and easy to run and smooth bead with a nice easy slag when it's run right. If you have a Northern Tool or Home Depot they may have it, but not sure in your neck of the woods. Maybe Tractor Supply. How close are you to Rosenberg or Victoria? 6013 is moderate / modest penetration, all position, AC or DC+ or DC-. It will give a smoother surface like the 7014. I will say this, the 6010/6011 may be better for what you're doing if you aren't going to grind off all the rust. It would be better to have clean steel but the 6010 / 11 rods are better if you can't get clean metal.Adios.
Reply:Nice pics. You're welds look great. You can also order small batches of rods via the internet. Order up some 7014 7024's. They will store forever in the right sealed container and you'll have them when you need them. As we all know, the beauty of Internet sales is usually tax free and search around for free shipping Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Thanks for the compliments, it's encouraging. Of course, I kinda left out some pics of mud dobber welds. But, a lot of these pictured above were done one right after the other. Getting a little more comfortable with speed.TSC has some rods (which I bought but haven't opened). Their price is about double what I will pay at a welding supply store. I'll check Home Depot for prices. Didn't think about them.Rosenburg and SugarLand are about an hour and a half from here. Are there any good internet sits that you are aware of?What is the difference between a 6010 and a 6011?
Reply:6011 is the AC version of 6010, but you can run it on DC, too. For ranch work you would want to have AC available if you had some magnetized iron from friction. Help keep the arc going where you want it. Also the 6010 and 6011 do better on dirty/rusty metal if you can't clean it.Home Despot is going to be about hte same as TSC on prices. Ouch. But if you have to go all the way to in town anyway, there's gotta be good welding supply stores in Rosenburg and all over that area. I'm guessing your in Matagorda County.
Reply:Yeah, about 10 miles on the Gulf side of Bay City. A little bit further to Brazoria and just a little bit more to Lake Jackson. That's where I would most likely find something local. They will probably have a welders supply there somewhere. I'll make some calls and check the internet. Otherwise I'll just keep the rods I got at TSC instead of making a special trip.
Reply:Freeport will have a bunch of places thanks to Dow Chemical and all that. Of course the shipping is probably cheaper than the gas these days. Hope things pick up for your ranch. I work in an office but it has been hell on all the ranchers and farmers in central texas with the drought and cattle / hay / fuel prices and ... blah blah blah... I honestly wonder what keeps some of them at it. Take care
Reply:I would still like to see clean metal prior to the welding, but still an improvement.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerI would still like to see clean metal prior to the welding, but still an improvement.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerI would still like to see clean metal prior to the welding, but still an improvement.
Reply:Here are some videos you should watch. Now that you've tried some stuff, they will make a lot of sense. Very good close up welding videos where you can see the puddle.This is a 46 minute Wall Mountain Video.If the copy/paste of the link does not work, the video is titled учебное пособие для сварщиков This is a 12 min video from weldingtipsandtricks.comhttp://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.htmlHe has "passing the structural steel test" too - very informative.http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ding-test.htmlMake sure you check out "stick welding tips from bubba" teaching with humor
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcAs we all know, the beauty of Internet sales is usually tax free and search around for free shipping |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:49:55