Learning TIG, need some advice

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Hi there,I'm learning TIG welding at night school. Last night I was doing an exercise that requires me to fillet weld two pieces of 5mm mild steel together on the outside edge of the join.I know it is very simple stuff, but I spent all night stuffing it up. My problem is, I just couldn't get any penetration through to the other side of the weld. I slowed down, added as much filler as I could but never got a good enough weld to pass the exercise.Are their any tips or tricks or basic techniques I can use to help me with my TIG welding???All help will be greatly appreciated.
Reply:Just nit-picking, but you don't weld a fillet on the outside edge. Are you welding an outside corner joint? If you are, less overlap will help with penetration. 5mm is about 3/16", so there's little chance of melting through. Adding 'as much filler as I could' cools the joint. Wait for the puddle, then add filler; 3/32" is good if I got the thickness right. More heat helps when you're having penetration problems. So if all of your welds had penetration problems, turn it up and burn one through, to get the feel. Or put the pieces edge to edge, with no overlap. That WILL get your penetration.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Thanks for the reply. You're not nit picking. I remember in 1981 I did an electronics degree and one of the things I've always remembered one of the lecturers said was "one of the hardest things you'll have to learn and remember is the terminology" welding is no different. Up until a year ago I thought a fillet was what you did to fish after you caught them.Yes, it's an outside corner joint (I've got so much to learn), thanks. I'll turn the current up, add a little less filler and try and slow down a bit.I may be having trouble with this simple test, but at least I'm only grinding my electrode tip every other hour now!!!!
Reply:I'm glad you understand that terminology matters. The internet is an international communications system and terminology does matter.Only grinding your tungsten 'every other hour' is bragging. If you'd like, you can go up to the left side of the page, to User CP and add your location; mine says Colorado. Many of us like to know 'where' we're talking to. "I may be having problems with this simple test."Get used to it. A guy in class needed the four (outside) corners of two .060" alum boxes welded last night (about 72"). Structurally, they were fine. Visually, not so much.  Luckily for me, he wanted square corners and was going to grind them anyway.Mmmmmmmmmmmm, fish. Now I'm hungry. Last edited by Craig in Denver; 03-25-2009 at 10:57 PM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:when i have a choice on how to fit that joint i fit it so the inside corners touch and form a V. this way pen is a peace of cake. i would use 1/16 wire for that gauge fit up like you have been or like i just suggested. this way it doesn't cool off the joint as much when you dip it.
Reply:Thanks for the all the help people.I'm sitting a theory test on TIG this coming Wednesday at night school. We have a book supplied by the school, but it is pretty light on. Anyone know of any online documentation I could look at to help beef up my TIG knowledge base???Thanks again.
Reply:Siringo:Australia!!  I thought you were in the States.  Thanks for adding your location. I think you'll find enough on this link to keep you busy until Wednesday.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...g-your-skills/If you don't already have it, Lincoln's Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding is highly recommended. AKA "The Bible". Not in time for Wednesday, but a lifetime reference. At less than $35 USA, it's the best buy in welding. FWIW: It's snowing like crazy and 15*F here.  Send heat. Quasi:Thanks for the tips.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverSiringo:Australia!!  I thought you were in the States.  Thanks for adding your location. I think you'll find enough on this link to keep you busy until Wednesday.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...g-your-skills/If you don't already have it, Lincoln's Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding is highly recommended. AKA "The Bible".
Reply:Another question, I meant to ask a few weeks back. From what I know most TIG welding is done DCEN. I asked the lecturer, when and why would you weld DCEP and he didn't know.I still haven't found out when you would weld DC electrode positive. Sorry if I've been a bit vague with the question, I'm still learning ;-)Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by siringoAnother question, I meant to ask a few weeks back. From what I know most TIG welding is done DCEN. I asked the lecturer, when and why would you weld DCEP and he didn't know.I still haven't found out when you would weld DC electrode positive. Sorry if I've been a bit vague with the question, I'm still learning ;-)Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by siringoAnother question, I meant to ask a few weeks back. From what I know most TIG welding is done DCEN. I asked the lecturer, when and why would you weld DCEP and he didn't know.I still haven't found out when you would weld DC electrode positive. Sorry if I've been a bit vague with the question, I'm still learning ;-)Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverSiringo:Australia!!  I thought you were in the States.  Thanks for adding your location. I think you'll find enough on this link to keep you busy until Wednesday.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...g-your-skills/If you don't already have it, Lincoln's Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding is highly recommended. AKA "The Bible". Not in time for Wednesday, but a lifetime reference. At less than $35 USA, it's the best buy in welding. FWIW: It's snowing like crazy and 15*F here.  Send heat. Quasi:Thanks for the tips.
Reply:You can order the Lincoln Bible directly from Lincoln for $25US (I am assuming they will ship to the barrier reef?)  If not for a couple of tanks of Nitrox on the dock and a good skipper I will bring mine over as a gift and give it to ya!  (it is raining here) and I need some sun!All kidding aside, that Lincoln manual and the resources library at Millwelds.com will pack your head with nearly as much knowledge as Craig has from his life time of Schooling!! (Just kidding Craig)As for me I go to the grinder quite often when practicing on ALuminum!  (I think I shook less when I used to drink??)Keep practicing and you will get it!TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopYou can order the Lincoln Bible directly from Lincoln for $25US (I am assuming they will ship to the barrier reef?)  If not for a couple of tanks of Nitrox on the dock and a good skipper I will bring mine over as a gift and give it to ya!  (it is raining here) and I need some sun!
Reply:Craig,That Lincoln bible of welding is an awesome resource!  It has a few pages in it that I can understand, and is inspirng to say the least when reading all the engineering math involved in the processes.As for my grinding skill, I am getting pretty proficient at that skill set!  (moved the grinder within reach of my chair at my table!!. I found a Binzel 3 gallon Water cooler and looking at different torches so this week I should have a new toy!  (Even with 1/8" tungsten) that little WP-17 get hot quick when running on the upper end of the power curve of the Dynasty 200.I would highly recommend for anyone the extra investment of a Watercooled torch if plans call for welding AL!No practice today as my Grandson was going swimming and I do have priorities!!(are you dug out yet)A rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopCraig,As for my grinding skill, I am getting pretty proficient at that skill set!  (moved the grinder within reach of my chair at my table!!.
Reply:Thanks for al the help guys, I really appreciate your input. Originally Posted by Craig in Denver I wish it was as easy to aquire skill, as it is to aquire knowledge.
Reply:Siringo,That was a good quote!!  Me and Craig should know, as both us are as old as a rusty nail and having already worked a career are still learning new processes!  (At my age practice time is really valuable) hopefully I will learn this tig process well enough to get paid enough to pay for the welder and all the crap I have purchased to do the work?  If I die first I will give it to Craig so he can take the Dynasty to class for show and tell)Craig,  It looks like the connectors for the 20 series torches are pretty universal for the Cooler as well I only need the WC dinse adaptor for the Dynasty  (Sundowner is keeping track of me)  hope to put it all together this week!  (I will keep you posted)TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Think I just worked out when you would weld DCEP??Electron flow is from negative to positive. And from the notes I got from the Miller web site .. "when welding DCEN ... when the arc is established, electron flow is from the negative electrode to the positive workpiece, approximately 70% of the heat will be concentrated at the positive side of the arc (or on the workpiece). This accounts for the deep penetration obtained when using DCEN."So from that you can see that if you used DCEN on thin metals you'd blow holes in the material. So going DCEP should reverse the situation, with most of the heat being concentrated on/into the electrode and saving the material from all the heat.Another question. Thoriated tungsten electrodes. Do they still get used? Are they used much? Are there any special handing/usage rules for them?
Reply:Originally Posted by siringoThink I just worked out when you would weld DCEP??Electron flow is from negative to positive. And from the notes I got from the Miller web site .. "when welding DCEN ... when the arc is established, electron flow is from the negative electrode to the positive workpiece, approximately 70% of the heat will be concentrated at the positive side of the arc (or on the workpiece). This accounts for the deep penetration obtained when using DCEN."So from that you can see that if you used DCEN on thin metals you'd blow holes in the material. So going DCEP should reverse the situation, with most of the heat being concentrated on/into the electrode and saving the material from all the heat.Another question. Thoriated tungsten electrodes. Do they still get used? Are they used much? Are there any special handing/usage rules for them?
Reply:Originally Posted by siringoNow there's a good quote. Aint it the truth.
Reply:Ah, so the electrodes are coloured??? All we use at night school is copper coloured filler and there's some silver stuff as well but I'm not sure what that is.In the shool notes we have, they tell us there are 5 types of tunsten. Thoriated, Lanthanated, Ceriated, Zirconiated and pure Tungsten. Do they all have different colours and if so, are the colours the same from manufacturer to manufacturer??Sounds like a real dumb question, but it's dumber not to ask.Thanks again.
Reply:Originally Posted by siringoAh, so the electrodes are coloured??? All we use at night school is copper coloured filler and there's some silver stuff as well but I'm not sure what that is.In the shool notes we have, they tell us there are 5 types of tunsten. Thoriated, Lanthanated, Ceriated, Zirconiated and pure Tungsten. Do they all have different colours and if so, are the colours the same from manufacturer to manufacturer??Sounds like a real dumb question, but it's dumber not to ask.Thanks again.
Reply:Thanks Craig, much appreciated. After my last post I went back to my Miller notes and it's all in there. I'll try and stop asking questions every 5 minutes. But ... um ... what does LWS stand for?And it's just after 3pm Wednesday here.
Reply:Ummmm....... Local Weld Supply/Shop. Sheesh, it's just 10pm Tuesday here. Ask away, you spell well (yes, it matters), and ask reasonable questions. If I get bored, someone will step into my shoes.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250Siringo,Not a problem,  the guys on this board are probably glad it is you asking and not me, (I nearly wore them all out with my questions)  You are on the right track!  I am using an inverter machine and all the tungstens seem to work fine (accept green) but on the higher ampres the 2% Lanthenated and the 1/1/2% seem to hold up better for me.  Craig,  It is Tuesday night and I just unloaded into the shop my new Water Cooler, WP-20 flexhead torch with braided rubber hoses. and collett Body and collets for  1/16, 3/32 and 1/8" with 5,,6, 7,8 Alumina cups, and a leather hose cover.  I have some meeting in the morning but if all goes well I should be welding again by 2pm!!  (No excuses now), I got the technology to weld, now if I can just get the talent to come out of the tungsten!!!! I think I saved almost enough $$ on the set up to start the search for a SF-XDmA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:That about covers it.Oh, wait: 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Blitzed my TIG theory test last night, 90+%!! AND completed 2 prac tests all in one night. Wasn't all good though, I spent an hour fixing my TIG machine that the day students had stuffed up  Enrolling in internediate TIG next term, that is accompanied with a basic metallurgy theory course that is run concurrently Looking forward to that.
Reply:Siringo,Way to go!!!,  Sounds like you are on the right track,  It is good to learn about the metal we are melting together!TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)