Need suggestions on new shop

admin

I'm planning to build a new 24'x40' (or 28'x40') shop, hopefully next month, in a neighborhood. It has to "blend into the neighborhood" so I'm deciding what would be the best materials to use. I'm considering stud walls or concrete block, but if you were starting new, which would you use? If stud walls, would you use sheet rock on the walls or is there something better? I will have woodworking equipment at one end and welding equipment at the other end. I am thinking if I sheet rock then I will have to put sheet metal around the welding area for fire prevention. What about ceiling? Luan plywood with strips over the joints or ?I want it insulated well enough to use year round. I expect I will have a propane heater for winter and open windows and doors with a fan for summer.As far as electrical, I plan on 200 amp service. Any suggestions?Not sure about the exterior. I sure hope I don't have to brick it, but can't be just painted concrete blocks. I may be able to use vinyl siding, but not sure that is the best way to go.Anyway, this is open for any and all suggestions. I think I have budgeted enough to do a nice shop, but I need to stay within the budget, so keep that in mind.  Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Personally I'd look at one of 3 methods.For insulating value, I'd look at 4 or 6" stress skin panels. Basically it's 4-6" of extruded foam with drywall on oneside and plywood/OSB on the other (though you can get plywood/OSB on both IIRC). The panels are structural so you don't need 2x studs except where the panels join. They go together easy with nails/screws. The idea comes from the commercial freezer industry so you get the most R value/ inch on the walls/ roof (you can use the panels to form a structural roof deck as well).2nd method would be poured concrete as opposed to block. You get a much more rigid construction than with block. I'd choose this option if I lived in an area prone to hurricanes like FL of on the Gulf coast or in Tornado alley myself. There are any number of options here. I've done several foundations/garages using the styrofoam forms. The forms give you an insulated solid wall. One style, the plywood / 2x brace material stayed in place and could be used to secure siding or drywall when completed. The styro forms are semi DIY. If you have a clue it's not hard to do the forms, but I'd get someone to help with the pour. I'd have to research the styro forms again. It's been a few years since I did them regularly and see what's new in the business. There are also urethane form liners that can be applied to standard forms so the exterior looks like stone. I happen to know someone with both the forms and the liners and personally like that look so that's probably the way I'd go, but it's not cheap. Standard forms are easy to assemble, but the retal isn't cheap. You'd probably need them for at least a week or 2 if you did it yourself.Last would be the basic stud construction. In a shop, I'd probably cover both sides with 1/2" or 3/4" plywood. It takes a beating and can be painted. I'd go with 3/4" on the inside, then I could do shelves wherever I wanted. Ceiling either 1/2" plywood or 5/8" firerated drywall, if I did a conventional ceiling,. I'd opt for an open ceiling design myself. I'd want to be able to use that area for lights and possibly high storage. It would also allow the heat to rise up in the summer and keep the shop cooler in your area. Winter heat wouldn't be as big a deal for you as it would be for us up north.I'd go with TGI joists and frame the roof conventionally. That or use I bar trusses the same way. I'd want a clear unobstructed area by the ceiling myself, either for a 2nd floor or so I could use H frame for storage. Using standard trusses, the attic space becomes useless. I'd probably put a 2nd floor/mezzinine over the wood area. That would keep down the dust and give you storage space above. Same if you want an office/ bathroom in there. I'd either put that on the 1st floor with storage above, or possibly put that on the 2nd floor if space allowed. At a minimum I'd do a slop sink on the 1st floor. Hot water could be just one of those small point source heaters. If doen right the system could be shut down and drained if needed in winter.I'd also give some thought about a beam hoist. Depending on how you lay this all out, you might beable to use steel for structural support, over size it and gain a trolley and hoist at the same time. I'd have to think How I'd lay that out for a while to see what makes the most sense..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I know in the neighborhood in the city they busted bal$$ on no cutting torches...don't let em see your tanks and if they see you welding jeeze.... need a block structure to code for fireproof rated weld shop and not allowed in most cities neighborhoods....only commercial property....They most likely will not let you even install 220 service as to try to stop backyard mechanics and shops...I just hope your not in the big city with code enforcing neighbors as you may want to hide the weld area in the back shop and the flash is hard to hide....but leagaly for insurance reasons you'll want a totally cement or block wall and metal trusses and roofing system or you could have a problem with insurance covering your house or the whole block if necessary...also insurance may have some fine print as to not cover ANY WELDING in the residential setting....good luck and be careful with the neighbor problems that may arise but can usually shut em up with something they may need or a repair or something...   I would go the block route with brick outside and Sheetrock if anything in the whole shop.... lot of insurance won't cover plywood.... as it's not code rated for fire rating on new construction or treated lumber indoors...Have fun building your new shop and be careful as said their are lots of variables that could be catastrophic probably never come up if or untill an accident if there ever was.... you just wanna be coveredLincoln 225 Tombstone,Miller Big 20,Hobart 180,150' Argon,A/D hobart hood 22 Ton Log splitter,79 F350 dump eats 4.75 TONS and still turns cutters,grinders,And a  Hypertherm POWERMAX 30
Reply:My preference would be for one of these:1. Stick framing, but use steel studs instead of wood. Use cement siding on the exterior and drywall inside. Steel framed roof. Metal roofing. That should cover any fire rating. This way you can use residential style electric and plumbing.Or.2. Speed block and then stucco (stucco on speed block is pretty cheap). Steel framed roof. Metal roofing.  You will have to use conduit and steel plumbing though.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Thanks to DSW, TonyD, and FortyOneThirty.These are all valid suggestions. Gives me food for thought, for sure. Especially on the insurance, I'll run that past my insurance agent to see if they have any concerns. Because this is in the county, I have more leeway than in a lot of areas, but better to know up front.Please keep this thread going if anyone has more suggestions.Right now it is still wide open as to possibilities of material.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Hey Burt,Congrats on the new shop!!! My new shop just got recently finished and I'm in the process of moving in right now. Here's what I went with. 2x6 walls on poured foundation. Interior wall height of ten feet, st the walls. Walls insulated with fiberglass (most cost effective) 6" concrete floor, vapor barrier and solid foam sheet insulation under. Floor in metal shop was polished to make lay out an sweeping easy. Exterior is black 7/8" corrugated black metal siding over lumber and tar paper. (zero maintenance; I'm in the woods, so paint wood have been a pain with the damp and moss. Roof is Galvalumne sheet metal. Again in the woods so it will put up with falling branches and clean off easier. ( four sky lights for natural light)Interior walls are 3/8" standard plywood, painted. More durable than drywall. Put a nail in anywhere to hang something. Paint gives it increased spark resistance and light reflectiveness. Most cost effective option. ( no tapping and mudding, easier install)4 x 220v on two separate breakers for welder/plasma. Two on each wall. 20amp plugs throughout. Building is 50x25 with a 15x20 wood shop and a 10x20 finishing room (10' ceiling in both) with 25x30 loft above, 30x25 metal shop. Center of ceiling( also 3/8" standard plywood) height is 24' at peak. ( no trusses in the way, fully open ceiling.)36, dual 48" fluorescent lights.main doors are 10x10' I put a 14" , 2500cfm fan with aluminum louver right behind my metal chop saw bench to suck out all the dust and smoke. Dust and smoke control were big on my "this time" list! Also am going to install a welding/plasma vacuum arm with a axial fan to suck welding/cutting smoke outside. Rain barrels at the outside four corners to catch rain water for quenching/ "patination".If your not able to go with metal exterior siding, Hardi-board might be a good choice. Looks like wood, fire proof, takes paint amazingly well and very durable. Good luck with the build! Hope this gave you some food for thought!Bert200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:I mentioned some of my suggestions on my posting that you had asked.  Also, a few things that you might think of while you are starting out fresh.  Put as many outlets in as possible, also put in as many air fittings as  you can as well.  If you like to listen to music, put speakers in the ceiling, and get some good T5 lighting.       I have overdone my new addition with outlets, air chucks and 220v in as many places that I could find.  Also, make sure that if you are planning on adding on to the outside make provisions now for that, you will thank me later for that one.     Another thing to think about is putting in a drain in the middle so you can hose it out whenever you want.  Maybe put in a water line inside for those days where you might need it.  Also, make it a drive thru, put a garage door at the front and the rear.  I did that and I don't know how I lived without it.     Good luck with your project, keep us posted and pictures too.-Greg---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:Hey Bert,You should post some pictures as that is an awesome shop.In response to earlier posts, I spoke to the Building Inspector to determine any requirements or restrictions. As long as I comply with Building Codes and neighborhood covenants, I can build with any materials and weld with no problem. I guess we are less restricted in the South.I also met with my contractor who is going to do an addition to the house and dry in the shop. He said cost wise block vs. stud is about the same, but he recommends stud to make changes, additions, etc. easier in the future.I thought about the drive-through option, but that won't work. I will have a 10' door, a walk-in door, and some windows. Definately need lots of outlets and air connections. The skylight is a good idea - I will try to add that.All ideas are welcome as it is a blank sheet right now.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:I'll try and get some pic's soon. It looks like a bomb went off right now with moving into it and building a new metal rack/chop saw bench combo(this is a great option, by the way) and building a new work table. Plus a friend of mine just moved back to town and he'll be in my shop for a while, so we're sorting out his gear too. As for plugs, you can save a bit here if you need to. I know, I know, I can hear the sphincters  pucker and the wood workers out there breaking into a cold sweat. But you can have a shop without a plug every two feet. Just saying, extension cords aren't the snakes of Satan. So if your budget gets tight, you can save a bit on the plugs, wire and labour. You love the 10x10 door. Nice to back the truck right in to unload metal!!! I think double doors is extravagant, but if you got the coil, go for it!!!! When I get my metal rack/chop table up I'll get some pic's. I didn't think much of it but have had more than a few guys gasp when they saw it. I guess it's not as obvious an idea as I thought.  Oh, yeah. My metal shop is 25x30 and has 16 double florescent lights on the ceiling( two rows of four on each side of the angled ceiling). Gives off tons of light, for me any way. I just mention this as this seems to be another expense people can get carried away with and not really need to. Money saved wisely is more money for TOOLS!!!!!!!200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.