Gen-set Pictures...

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Here's the first pics of a genset project.  I've been practice welding for a few weeks and feel ready to start the project.The engine is a Kubota V1505 diesel.  It weighs about 250lbs and tops-out at 33 HP at 3000 RPM.  I'll be spinning it at 2100 RPM where the continuous duty HP curve shows it putting-out 21-22 HP which translates to 16 kW.The gen head is an ST 15 rated for continuous duty 15 kW and needs to be driven at 1800 RPM.  It weighs just under 400lbs.  You can see the gen-head to the right of the engine.  The sheaves, bushings and belts to match the desired operating speeds are on order.I'm dangerous enough to have designed the whole frame and mounting assembly.  The only unknown/undesigned factor is how I'll connect a shaft to the flywheel so I can attach the drive sheave.  Oh how I wish I had a lathe, as the engine can't be mounted to the frame until that's taken care of.  The gen-head and it's shaft are much longer than the engine so I can safely fabricate the frame and not worry that the engine's sheaves will stick-out too far.Here's the first few pics of the mounting legs I fabricated today.  I will post more pictures as the work comes along.  If it doesn't rain tomorrow I'll make the frame and hopefully the sliding base for the gen-head.Note that the welds are intentionally not continuous to leave clearance for the bolt heads.  Ray Attached Images
Reply:Duly noted. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:you're an idiot for having your welder plug looking like that.  that jumped out at me right away because I HAVE MY WELDER PLUGGED IN JUST LIKE THAT TOO  I think your mother and my mother must've dropped us as babies.nice job on the mounts.  Why not just weld all around?
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moronyou're an idiot for having your welder plug looking like that.  that jumped out at me right away because I HAVE MY WELDER PLUGGED IN JUST LIKE THAT TOO  I think your mother and my mother must've dropped us as babies.nice job on the mounts.  Why not just weld all around?
Reply:...  Things went very well but I'm not ready to quit my day job.  I paid a lot of attention about keeping things square and it all came-out very well.  When all was said and done, the t-square fit the corners like a glove and it lays perfectly flat on the garage floor.One thing I learned, is that with my practice pieces, I was always sitting comfortably and the pieces were solidly positioned.  With the real deal, my positoning was all over the place until I wised-up and did things in a more controlled fashion.On the wheel brackets, the square notch-out is for a piece of 5/8" threaded rod that will serve as an elevator/leveling jack.  When this thing is permanently positioned, I'll screw them down to take the weight off the wheels.So far, I've done all this with nothing more than a welder, a chop-saw and a drill press.Tomorrow, I'll make the gen-head mounts.  That will be tricky because I need to cut slits in tube stock so it can slide a few inches to tighten the belts.Here's the pics.  A few more will come in the next post. Attached Images
Reply:More Pics... Attached Images
Reply:Well thought out and well executed.  Ya got nothin' to apologize for, dude.(Retired) Professional firefighter, amateur everything else I try to do...Oh yeah:  Go Big Red!   (You know: one of the 12 members of the Big 10 cuz we left the 10 members of the Big 12...)
Reply:Don't cut slits in the tubes.  They will collapse when you tighten the bolts.  Use two tubes with a spacer in between instead.  Either that or a flat plate with slots.P.S.  My home made genny is bigger than yours. Actually it's a customers.  30kw Attached ImagesLast edited by Boostinjdm; 09-19-2010 at 01:18 AM.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by Ray CI was afraid somebody was going to notice that!!!  Yeah man, that's a pretty make-shift wiring job but it works!  Just so you don't think I'm totally wreckless, I clamped it out and the most one leg has ever drawn was about 18 amps when the welder was set at 85 amps (DC).  I'm running at 75 amps now and the wires are cool as a cucumber.  It's 10 ga wire and what you can't see is that the total length is about 4 feet.  But yeah, shame on me. .
Reply:Originally Posted by zoraThere's no shame if everybody does it. I have one for ... well.. emergencies.. right?  I knew I couldn't be  the only one who does stupid $hit.
Reply:sweet cant wait to see more
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moronactually, i'm the biggest idiot of them all.  Mine has been like that for a year and a half.  I've been so excited about learning how to tig, never got around to put in a proper 220 line.  Mine is actually a 4 conductor 220 for a spa.  We never got into the spa thing, and since welding is so much more fun, just kinda swapped out the spa for a 220 outlet for my welder.i gotta run a proper line.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmDon't cut slits in the tubes.  They will collapse when you tighten the bolts.  Use two tubes with a spacer in between instead.  Either that or a flat plate with slots.P.S.  My home made genny is bigger than yours. Actually it's a customers.  30kw
Reply:Ok, here's more pics...  I didn't get too much done today as I'm feeling a little under the weather.Today I made the elevator posts from 5/8" threaded rod, nuts and a piece of 3/4" water pipe.  With a tiny bit of reaming, the 5/8 rod fit perfectly inside the pipe.  I trim-fitted the lengths of the rods so it was a loose fit and allowing the sides of the nuts to line-up.  It worked fine.When I welded them to the frame, I had to do a couple passes because there were some voids because a hexagon does not fit both sides of a square.  This is the first time I've ever done 2-pass welding to fill a void.  It worked out great.  I'm still using 3/32 7014 rod and really like them now.  It's like spreading butter and I like the way it feels.Also I made the slide mounts for the gen-head.  This was a pain!!!  Cutting those slits with a chop saw seemed to take forever.  I learned the hard way that the seam in tube-stock is much harder to cut through -especially when you're going length-wise Just out of curiosity, what is another good way of doing that instead of using a chop saw?Here's the pics.  -And yes, I know... the welds are not perfect.  And I won't get my nose out of joint if you point-out the flaws and also tell me how to improve the technique. Attached Images
Reply:Last couple pics of day 3... Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by zoraThere's no shame if everybody does it. I have one for ... well.. emergencies.. right?  I knew I couldn't be  the only one who does stupid $hit.
Reply:Posting the latest pictures.  -Not sure if they'll come though as the last couple attempts failed... Attached Images
Reply:Here's one of the sliding rails that fits into the frame.  Need to make 3 more of these. Since those rails slide, they can be positioned precisely under the generator and/or gen-head and give me the option of swapping-out different components that will probably have different mounting points.Today was not a good day welding.  I was rushing to beat an arriving rain storm and managed to notch-out the end-pieces but rushed like crazy to weld them to the rail and did a sloppy job.  I got those pieces cut and welded in an hour.  Patience is not one of my virtues and now I'll get to practice grinding off the weld and re-doing to make it look better -because it will drive me crazy if I leave it the way it is.Anyhow, the fit is perfect. Attached Images
Reply:Definetly going to be a beast for sure. Couple of things come to mind, did you check for the correct rotation of the engine to generator, 30HP with a belt is going to mean a multiple belt setup, I think the casters are a bit too light for the weight involved.Not being picky, just giving you a heads up....Mike
Reply:Speaking of belts, the engine is mounted on relatively spindly legs.  That wouldn't likely be a problem if the generator was shaft driven, but if you're mounting it so the belts are tensioned to the side, you'll wan to make sure you include a bit of structure to snub that side-to-side flexibility.  You could end up with some wild shaking, or not, depending on a pile of variables, including the belt load, which will change with demand.
Reply:To cut the slits in the tube I probably would have used an air die grinder with a 3" cutoff wheel.  If you don't have the air, a 4" electric grinder and cutoff wheel will do the job.  It'll just be a little heavier to use.I've also done like someone else mentioned.  Drill through both sides of the tube, then put a piece of pipe through the tube and weld both sides.  You can put a bolt in, tighten like crazy and it'll won't crush the tube.  Looks like maybe you needed the slots to have some range of adjustments (I'm not sure, I'd have to study the pictures)I don't know if it's worth changing, but I would put the jack screws farther away from the caster.  As it is you have to screw the all-thread all the way up so the caster can free spin.  It would be nice if you only had to screw the all-thread up an inch or so and the caster could spin all the way around.  Probably doesn't matter since you won't be moving this thing on a daily basis.  If you were you could put on a "step pedal" and some linkage that lowered the feet.Last edited by AndyA; 09-23-2010 at 08:29 AM.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by Ray CHere's one of the sliding rails that fits into the frame.  Need to make 3 more of these. Since those rails slide, they can be positioned precisely under the generator and/or gen-head and give me the option of swapping-out different components that will probably have different mounting points.Today was not a good day welding.  I was rushing to beat an arriving rain storm and managed to notch-out the end-pieces but rushed like crazy to weld them to the rail and did a sloppy job.  I got those pieces cut and welded in an hour.  Patience is not one of my virtues and now I'll get to practice grinding off the weld and re-doing to make it look better -because it will drive me crazy if I leave it the way it is.Anyhow, the fit is perfect.
Reply:i wanna ask a  question as i am a  novice  at design and how to do things right..where the tube steel is welded together  at the corners, (post # 5) typically there is a horizontal weld on top  that stops at the end. is i t better for this weld to be made  continuously  down and around the corner, as opposed to being continued later?? the pulling at the top can be seen to  cause a small spread/pull at the bottom..there is plenty of strength as it seems like the caster plates are a strong gusset effect..
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadi wanna ask a  question as i am a  novice  at design and how to do things right..where the tube steel is welded together  at the corners, (post # 5) typically there is a horizontal weld on top  that stops at the end. is i t better for this weld to be made  continuously  down and around the corner, as opposed to being continued later?? the pulling at the top can be seen to  cause a small spread/pull at the bottom..there is plenty of strength as it seems like the caster plates are a strong gusset effect..
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseYes, in general you would wrap the welds around the corners and continue all around the joint.As you surmised, a weld 'end' can act as a hinge or crack/peel initiation site.YMMV and specific design criteria may differ.Originally Posted by mrmikeyDefinetly going to be a beast for sure. Couple of things come to mind, did you check for the correct rotation of the engine to generator, 30HP with a belt is going to mean a multiple belt setup, I think the casters are a bit too light for the weight involved.Not being picky, just giving you a heads up....Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerSpeaking of belts, the engine is mounted on relatively spindly legs.  That wouldn't likely be a problem if the generator was shaft driven, but if you're mounting it so the belts are tensioned to the side, you'll wan to make sure you include a bit of structure to snub that side-to-side flexibility.  You could end up with some wild shaking, or not, depending on a pile of variables, including the belt load, which will change with demand.
Reply:For the love of God you cheap b.astards need to go buy some CORD for those temp power connections.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1For the love of God you cheap b.astards need to go buy some CORD for those temp power connections.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1For the love of God you cheap b.astards need to go buy some CORD for those temp power connections.
Reply:OK, here's a few more pictures.  Progess is good.  No setbacks at all and everything is fitting like a glove.  I underestimated the amount of time it takes to fit and clamp everything before zapping it.  I'm one of those "measure three times, cut once -kind of guys" and that slows things down a good bit.  The welding skills are coming along fine.  I found myself zinging that stinger around pretty good.  I'm also learning how to see the weld pool -before, I didn't even know what the heck I was looking at.So, with this arrangement, the rails slide sideways in the frame so I can center things and line-up the pulleys.  The gen-head can slide on top of the rails and it has draw-bolts for tensioning.  If I want, the components can swap sides.  I'm still deciding if the exhaust should go over the generator or on the other side.  The disadvantage is that the throttle and shut-off will be less accessible.  By the way, the casters are holding up just fine.  They are rubber coated cast iron.  When I put all the weight on it, there wasn't a whimper from either the wheels or frame. Attached Images
Reply:What a great project but how are you lifting all that heavy stuff Ray?
Reply:Uhhh, would you believe Chuck Norris lives next door???  (LOL...)Here's a picture...  I have a come-along rigged into my garage.  The over-head door headers are two layers of 2x12.  The roof rafters (2x6's) sit perpendicular on top of them and extend out to the soffit.  I layed a 3"x6' steel pipe across 5 or 6 of the rafters, butted-up next to the header.  There's a chain wrapped around the pipe and a small hole cut through the ceiling drywall where I attach the come-along.  I snapped a quick pic for you and the garage door is closed.  To use this arrangement, I have to disconnect the door's drive and push it all the way up.  There's about a 6" clearance to hook the come-along to the chain.I used to rebuild antique diesel engines -and they usually start at 1000lbs.  This arrangement handles it with total ease and I venture to say the chain is the limiting factor.Some of my next projects are going to be an engine hoist, overhead gantry and lathe bench (and of course, my next-door neighbor wants a 3'x10' steel platform/hut for her garbage cans.  I'll gladly oblige as she does not complain about all the noise I make).  First though, I'm going to build a proper welding table so I don't have to work like a caveman. Attached Images
Reply:Ok... The main frame and mounts are done.  Today, I welded tabs with holes that will allow the rails to clamp to the frame.  I'll tack nuts over the holes and the corresponding bolts will act as set-screws to lock the rails into position.   I also welded some T-shaped brackets to the engine mount posts.In a previous post, it was thought the engine mount posts might be too tall.  I've decided to run the muffler horizontally above the generator and inside the enclosure so, the extra height is good.  Since I'm using a pusher fan, I'm not worried about heat build-up inside the enclosure.  I'll do some thermo calculations and calculate the expected inside temperature just for grins.  I did all left-hand welding today... when everything was bolted for a test-fit, it was solid as a rock so I guess my off-hand welding ain't too bad .Soon it will be time to give this thing a wire-wheel massage, scrub it down, prime it and paint it.One last thing, this forum is all about welding and I'm heading into the territory of putting on the sheaves then, rewiring the gen-head for center-tapping, putting on my own voltage regulator and installing the main breakers ...  Still OK to post those pictures here? Attached ImagesLast edited by Ray C; 09-26-2010 at 09:14 PM.Reason: fix a typo
Reply:One last thing, this forum is all about welding and I'm heading into the territory of putting on the sheaves then, rewiring the gen-head for center-tapping, putting on my own voltage regulator and installing the main breakers ... Still OK to post those pictures here?
Reply:I second that mrmikey Nice job Ray C.  Please do not leave us hanging, I definitely want to see everything regarding this project."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikey... We've got machinists, millrights, mechanics, electricians here, ohh yeah, and weldors too .....Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moronyou're an idiot for having your welder plug looking like that.  that jumped out at me right away because I HAVE MY WELDER PLUGGED IN JUST LIKE THAT TOO  I think your mother and my mother must've dropped us as babies.nice job on the mounts.  Why not just weld all around?
Reply:Originally Posted by Ray COh great...  As each phase passes, I'll make each of those tradesman cringe!-Ray...
Reply:dang, Hot, Hot, Neutral, wait.. no ground...You guys do know home depot / lowes sells wire by the foot, right?And if your cord is only 4 feet long its not going to be that $$...Shoot, even doubling up on some 10 guage dryer cord would be good and its like $1 a foot.
Reply:Made a minor modification to the frame...  With everthing mounted, I noticed the leg plates looked like they flexed a tiny bit due to the weight.  Design wise, I knew this was a possibility but thought 1/4" plate would handle it.  Anyhow, the tabs/struts put an end to the problem.  The welds on the tabs are solid and functional but, once again, I was rushing like a mad man to beat sundown and aren't as pretty as they should be.  One thing I'm learning is that I must stop rushing and properly setup the pieces and get honkered-in before running a bead.Also, the sheaves and bushings arrived.  Here's some pics. Attached Images
Reply:Gettin' there. Looks good.I wonder if it'd be possible to reverse the generator and the engine in their mounts so that the belt drive is moved to the short side of the cart? The reversal would make for clear access to the control panel and also it would get exhaust heat away from the generator. The flip may also simplify radiator mounting.I have a feeling that belt tension loads will bow the engine's lower support tubes. The tubes will probably need a bit of rework, with more vertical surface.Thanks for posting the progress.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 09-29-2010 at 10:44 AM.
Reply:denrep,You may be right about the belt tension loads...  I hope you're wrong.  Actually, now that you mention it, the torque on the frame from the belt tension will push the center down and pull the ends up; thus, it might bow downward in the center.  Maybe the 4 foot sides of the 1x2" tube stock can handle it.  I'll find-out what the recommended belt tension is so I can calculate the torque on the frame.As far as the orientation of the gen and engine, I wanted to make this thing "roomy" to possibly accomodate a larger set of components.  By next spring, I will have made 2 more of these things, both at least 15kW more powerful than this one.
Reply:You have a "U" shaped structure.  The generator frame is the vertical leg on the left side, the tube structure is the bottom, and the engine support legs and engine collectively are the right side vertical.The generator is essentially infinitely stiff, so no worries there.  The engine support and engine will rack, though how much is a matter that requires some analysis (and knowledge of total belt load).  The bottom will bend like a smile, and again, how much can be calculated if the belt load is known.The most material efficient way to stiffen this up is to put a link between the inner engine leg, at the top, and the generator, essentially making the "U" into a square.  No more bending of the "U".  Short of that, you can put either light-gauge diagonals (angles are probably easiest), back to back, between the engine support legs, or a diaphragm of gauge metal.  I do this a lot with large engine mounts (500-1000 hp), but I always put a large hole in the middle of it to make bolt access easier.The bottom of the "U" would need a deeper spine.  Rectangular tube, with the long dimension vertical, stitched to the bottom of the existing structure, would stiffen it up considerably.If you can't close the "U", you can certainly stiffen it up.
Reply:Originally Posted by Ray Cdenrep,You may be right about the belt tension loads...  I hope you're wrong. . . . As far as the orientation of the gen and engine, I wanted to make this thing "roomy" to possibly accomodate a larger set of components.  By next spring, I will have made 2 more of these things, both at least 15kW more powerful than this one.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepBe aware that VX belts require much more tension than conventional profile belts.I don't see how the exhaust location will be anything but trouble. Where the manifold is located now it's going to bury and broil the control panel. Maybe there's an end-dump manifold available?Since the the engine is only 300 rpm away from its ideal range, and the belt drive only reducing speed by this 300 rpm, how about for the future builds going direct coupled? Does the torque curve drop off that bad? If so, the engine may be optimistically rated and may be borderline when wear and net loads are calculated. Do you know the mill's 1800 rpm ratings?I have a hunch that if you designed the next one for a direct-coupled 1800 rpm drive you would be miles ahead; even if you lost a few KW. Actually, with the belt drive's parasitic losses factored, there may actually be a net gain in KW by slowing down and direct coupling.Good Luck
Reply:Update...  I've been working on the engine the last few days.  Had to track down the operator's manual, get a bunch of wire etc, check the schematic to make a wiring harness, figure-out how all the relays operate and setup all the engine's externals.  A friend of mine has access to mountains of scrap marine-grade wire which is extraordanarily high quality stuff.  The battery cables are 2ga, charging wire is 6ga... it all came out great.  After priming the fuel system, it started right up.  I'll try to post a youtube video.This was just a test run of the engine so the gen-head is not connected yet.  The frame was absolutely rock solid even revved up at 1800 RPM. The frame was resting on the coasters, not the elevator jacks -it didn't budge or creep one bit.  I forgot to clamp down the frame rails -it didn't make a difference and didn't shimmy at all.Time will tell if the welds are any good but as far as the frame design is concerned, this system will easily handle the 30 and 45 kw units that are 250-350lbs heavier.  To be on the safe side, I'll probably use 1x3" tube stock instead of 1x2".Here's a pic. Attached Images
Reply:Where did you get the engine and how much was it?  Only if you don't mind.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmWhere did you get the engine and how much was it?  Only if you don't mind.
Reply:The radiator arrived so this week I made the brackets for it.  Had a minor design problem due to the width of the radiator.  The issue was that the wheel support plate in the frame interfered with the radiator bracket clamp.  A taller, narrower radiator would have solved the problem but, I couldn't find one with the volumetric capacity I was looking for.  You can see I took the cheap way out and made the bracket "L" shaped. -Hey, it works...I discovered that angle iron steel is just one step harder than warm butter.  Really had to crank-back the Amps when welding it.  Also, I had to beef-up the clamps because it seemed the upper and lower tabs would have torn right off when the bolts were snugged-up.  Putting in the two extra pieces was very time consuming and in retrospect, I should have fabricated these in some other way.  -What the heck, I need the welding practice.  During the test fit, I cranked the bolts pretty good and it was rock solid.  The paint is drying now...I'm getting a pretty good appreciation of the time/effort it takes to weld/fabricate something!  Lot's of fun though.  Also, I force myself to do left-side welding with my left hand and it's working-out fine. Attached Images