Not A Question But When To Say NO.

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Sometimes it's best to just say NO if the other person wants something done NOW..Yesterday I gave Mr Stukas a GOOD lesson on when to say no.My BOSS came running over yesterday with a broken spare tire mount..Looks like it went on the back of a SUV but I could not be sure..It was broken in two on the plate that mounts to whatever...He had cut a 1/4" plate out of mild steel and clamped it to the back of the broken plate..NO prep work was done.The paint/powdercoat was still on it and the broken pieces were rusted where the break was.."Just weld this plate on it and go over the crack" he requested.."Nope sorry..This has to have all the paint and the rust dealt with before I will weld anything" was my reply.."Well the guy is waiting for it and wants it now" was his response.."Nope..Until I prep it the way it should be I am not doing it" was my response to that...Well he took off in a huff and did it with the stick welder on the other side of the shop..Then I told Mr Stukas that "This was a GOOD example of when to say NO even if it is the BOSS that asks you to do something half a$$ed..This is what separates YOU from everyone else when it comes to TIG"..Bottom line.Tig has to be clean or don't bother...And don't be afraid to say NO or say it has to be prepped correctly to anyone before welding anything.Small things equal BIG results and if you can't take the time for the small stuff then don't do it at all.....zap!Last edited by zapster; 07-14-2012 at 12:59 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:But ZAP, sometimes now is better than nice, isnt it???Or, do you want it now or do you want it rite???
Reply:Time to put on my gauntlet gloves
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideBut ZAP, sometimes now is better than nice, isnt it???Or, do you want it now or do you want it rite???
Reply:That kind of repair requires an Argoff/Healium mix.  Sorry, we're fresh out.  "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:ZAP, I was just using my dry sense of humor . The point is, Stukas isnt ready to question authority like you did. It takes time, xperiance and skill to be able to answer to no one.
Reply:No I am with ZAP on this, the same guy who said do it will come back in two weeks after it fails and completly forget he is the one that said to do it and it will end up being your fault when you knew better.Beyond that some of us have pride in our work, and I want to be able to be able to look at something I did in 20 years and say yep I did that, not scuttle it to the rubbish bin.Projects are often like building a house, 1st foundation step followed by later steps. moose up the foundation and the rest follows....downhill.
Reply:Didn't Bossholio realize that if you tried to tig it with rust and paint all over, it wouldn't work?Or was he trying to get you to stick weld it?
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinDidn't Bossholio realize that if you tried to tig it with rust and paint all over, it wouldn't work?Or was he trying to get you to stick weld it?
Reply:I agree a 100%. Sometimes it's a pain in the a$$ to do the prep work. Most guys don't relize how much more professional it is.         I would say he was using 6010.  ''as is'' was the answer for a quick job. No cleaning just burn it up.
Reply:EVERYTHING is in the prep work..Can't stress that enough..Don't matter what process either..The cleaner the better!I think he used 7018 because we have a ton of it..Whatever.I am not "IT" this time.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I was going to tell the i boss i couldn't do it when i heard "it just needs to hold the tire on" but Zap stepped in and helped me out
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI am not "IT" this time.....zap!
Reply:Did you pass test one today?(Diving).....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap, I'm trying to picture the job. I am thinking this is a job for the mig. What is it that makes this a tig job? Ps, agree on the prep. "to clean or not to clean" was an old post of mine. I didn't know you could mig with mill scale on it! I don't do that unless it's a non critical weld like the sissy bar on my bike!!! Miller diversion 165Miller mig 211Hypertherm pm 30Milwaukee 6230 14 inch chop sawMd 45 mag drill (RIP; fell on its head)New MD 45! Thanks to the esposa!Finally got an O/A setup
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterDid you pass test one today?(Diving).....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by StukasYa it was awesome, we saw like 4 lobsters
Reply:This is a safety issue.  That tire is NOT  going to fall off the back of the SUV while it's parked in the driveway.  If it breaks off it will be while the vehicle is moving, whether  on the interstate, or a local road, ether way not good.
Reply:i guess i can't imagine not just taking the part and cleaning it, if they bring it to me its my work which makes it not there buisnes how i do itif the guy cares about 5 minutes to buff the paint and dirt off somethin' i'd be lookin for a real job.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob_CThis is a safety issue.  That tire is NOT  going to fall off the back of the SUV while it's parked in the driveway.  If it breaks off it will be while the vehicle is moving, whether  on the interstate, or a local road, ether way not good.
Reply:If you had a shop mig you could get away with less prep.just sayingVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou taking a dive class? Which one?
Reply:Huh  I only have two buds left in me 12 pack whata should I doIlsa is getting my dinner reddy but heres what I did today. make a stupud box. go ahead beet me up I got guantlet gloves and will bite back ifn your werthy of it.Zap, have or do you know how to run MEN? Different than teen age boys in your shop. No offense but, your thtread reminds of a recipee for a monster that will bite you in the end, STUKAS. no offense to you either but Ive raised a Monsters myself.Teach STUKAS to bite the hand that feeds and your hand is gonna get bitten, ZAP. Let your fan club fly. Thats what Gauntlet glove are for.I used Helium lowest pressure I could get at about 100 amps LINCOLN invertec with my home grown pedal. Wish I had some Argon.I'll be waitingBTW I have learned a few things from this site and ZAP inclding the squaring for my unsqaure box. My spelling is off from the porn stars I met last night at the pool party, bikini contest blues fest Attached Images
Reply:Think I will  finish with fux core so I can save the HeliumIm waitingIt took more time to cut the platen (about 50 feet left) than to weldLast edited by Insaneride; 07-14-2012 at 09:02 PM.Reason: TIME
Reply:BTW, do you always tell yer boss NO???I was a mad man with an axe and didnt answer to NO one. The economy has changed and I changed my attitude, thats how I got here.Waiting
Reply:
Reply:Originally Posted by StukasSSI Open water diver.Are you a diver,I got my 3rd and 4th ocean dive tomorrow and then im done
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideHuh  I only have two buds left in me 12 pack whata should I doIlsa is getting my dinner reddy but heres what I did today. make a stupud box. go ahead beet me up I got guantlet gloves and will bite back ifn your werthy of it.Zap, have or do you know how to run MEN? Different than teen age boys in your shop. No offense but, your thtread reminds of a recipee for a monster that will bite you in the end, STUKAS. no offense to you either but Ive raised a Monsters myself.Teach STUKAS to bite the hand that feeds and your hand is gonna get bitten, ZAP. Let your fan club fly. Thats what Gauntlet glove are for.I used Helium lowest pressure I could get at about 100 amps LINCOLN invertec with my home grown pedal. Wish I had some Argon.I'll be waitingBTW I have learned a few things from this site and ZAP inclding the squaring for my unsqaure box. My spelling is off from the porn stars I met last night at the pool party, bikini contest blues fest
Reply:I think zap is just trying to teach the kid that it's ok to diplomaticaly tell your boss, that I am not a bung hole so please don' try to treat me like one. Sometimes you have to wait. Life is full of disapointments, you should be used to it by now.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:So how did the boss's weld come out? I wonder how long until the customer is back, and short a spare tire.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:Did anyone get anything out of Insane's drunken speel?Experience comes with age and repetition.Experience has taught me a couple of important lessons.The customer is NOT always right.The boss is NOT always right.Experience gives you the tools to tell them that without crapping the bed or cutting off the hand that feeds you.A true professional will always stand up for his standards and be willing to accept the consequences.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Insane is off on a tangent ...somewhere ?And you do have to use a great amount of common sense in this businessAnd uphold your own standards alsoDon't get me wrong i need money but i explain why i won't do certain jobs or that i will only do them a certain way and why if they can't handle that then take it to somebody elseEnough SaidBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I'm a little surprised by some of the grand-standing and nonsense that shows up in threads like this....As a PROFESSIONAL it is your JOB to ensure that any work performed is done correctly and to stringent standards.  EVERY Job, EVERY Time.  That is what separates us from the fly-by-night backyard Hacks that give "Welders" a bad name.Probably 90% of any successful weld is Preparation and Planning.I say "No" to people and their Whizzy Ideas all the time but I EXPLAIN my reasons and they realize that I am looking out for THEIR best interests and only want to do the job correctly and properly.In reality, you will NOT get a reputation for "Biting the hand that feeds you" but rather be recognized as an uncompromising professional with High Standards!SundownIII and Killerdozerd11 (among others) are correct in their comments.I'll step away from the thread now in case the Village Idiot wishes to bestow more of his "Wisdom" upon us.Later,Jason
Reply:Well put Jason and all those that know right from wrong..So..What's new in Canada?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Was working at a body shop once, and the owner's son wanted me to do some inner apron work on a new vehicle.  We were billing the insurance co 8 hours to replace a section and do some straigtening, but mgmt wanted me to just scuff it up a bit, make it look like work was done, so we could get away with just shooting it with paint.  I told him "I'm not your guy for that."  Don't know if he had someone else "not" do the work, but he never held it against me.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterSo..What's new in Canada?...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfI'll send a PM
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster. . .It was broken in two on the plate that mounts to whatever...He had cut a 1/4" plate out of mild steel and clamped it to the back of the broken plate..NO prep work was done.The paint/powdercoat was still on it and the broken pieces were rusted where the break was..
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepJust curious....  what about without a word about it just unsnapping the clamp and spending half a minute with that flap-wheel, grinder,  blast-cabinet , or whatever that thing is on the bench?Or maybe even teaming-up with the  the Bossman on his rush job and aksin' him to start on the prep while you get set up?  In other words, have a big "YES"  for the Boss and a small "no"  Good Luck
Reply:should have told him if he would invest in a mig machine he could have had it now.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:i don't know Zap, his attitude and his life, but i've seen some older worker in differents shops i worked in the past having this attitude, and the only thing i can say is often, the guy who can stand up in the face of his boss, not being stupid, and angry, but with good reasons are the same guys that the boss love to work with and have more respect for them!I don't know nothing about the company where his working and don't even know his boss but im pretty sure Zap is a really good worker and his boss probably know it, that's why he can deal with those situation this way, probably not the same story for a freshman right out from the school!Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:Originally Posted by LayoutMani don't know Zap, his attitude and his life, but i've seen some older worker in differents shops i worked in the past having this attitude, and the only thing i can say is often, the guy who can stand up in the face of his boss, not being stupid, and angry, but with good reasons are the same guys that the boss love to work with and have more respect for them!I don't know nothing about the company where his working and don't even know his boss but im pretty sure Zap is a really good worker and his boss probably know it, that's why he can deal with those situation this way, probably not the same story for a freshman right out from the school!
Reply:Atta boy Zap.I'll tell you a short story.  When I started at the place I'm working now I had a pre-employment meeting.  I won't go into the whole speal but a few things I heard (at the time) left me scratching my head.  The most troublesome comment I heard was "We here at ***** ****** take certain liberties".  When I asked what that meant I was told that from time to time I would be expected to do things I was not licenced for or knowingly do things wrong in the interest of convenience and profitablility.  I told them no thanks.  I have higher standards then that.  The employee hand book clearly states that if I refuse to perform a required task I can be fired.  I still got the job and am frequently asked to do the things I said I wouldn't do.  I refuse.  One day I got so pissed off that I flew off on the boss telling him (in front of everyone) that the law is here for a reason and that is to keep asswholes like you from cheating and charging for it.  He's not licenced for anything and tries to force the hands of those who are by holding their jobs hostage.OK rant over
Reply:I just wanna jump on the diving bandwagon....PADI Certs-Open Water Diver, Advanced Open Water Diver, Rescue Dicer, and I hold 1 technical cert for Gas Blending up to 3 gases.  Yeehaw.Oh, and I tell my boss no all the time. He just doesn't listen.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIA true professional will always stand up for his standards and be willing to accept the consequences.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterEVERYTHING is in the prep work..Can't stress that enough..Don't matter what process either..The cleaner the better!...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWGood for you! It's cool you are doing your checkouts in the ocean.I'm a big time diver. Not doing as much as I used to though. I have certs in Full Cave, CCR, Trimix, Dive master/ Asst Instructor...I'll PM you.
Reply:Originally Posted by usmcruzYeah, I got my Padi instructor 3 years ago in guam.  Now that were back in the states, diving has taken a back burner.  Hope to start back up soon.  Sorry for the hijack.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideWaiting