artistic project - slow, variable rpm motor

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Hi Guys,I came here to seek your help, since I am a complete illiterate in these “electro” things. I am thinking of an artistic project, where canvas will be rotating, while I will paint on it. What I need is a motor with: - a plate (or some kind of board) rotating around its axis attached to the motor- continuous adjustment of the RPM of the plate (not necessarily motor itself) at least from 50 to 180. Any wider range, especially on the lower end 30-180, 0-180, 30-200, is welcomed- a possibility to attach it to a working bench (with few screws to wooden surface), so the “plate” can rotate both horizontally (like phonograph) and vertically, naturally depending on how I attach it to the bench- not too expensive solution- already assembled or easy to assemble- smaller size if it does not mean higher expenses- also working on 220V if it does not mean much higher expensesHard to specify the necessary torque. I can give an example of maximal load. The plate will be rotating in a vertical direction. I will mount a thin wooden board to it (apprx. 12x16 inches, 4 pounds). Board will be mounted in its top right corner, so when it will be rotating (I will use just the lowest RPM on this non centric mounting), the lower left corner will be doing a circular movement up and down. Or another example, I will use sandpaper or small graver to make gouges/scratches when the wooden board will be mounted horizontally and centric. Looking forward to your thoughts, if you need any further clarification, please let me know.Thank you in advace for your help!Tony
Reply:https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp
Reply:Dear riceburner,Thank you for the link, but I really don´t have any potential to go through it and find something, that will work for me :-( Please, will someone try to give me complex solution?Thank you all in advance!T.
Reply:How about an old ceiling fan and a fan controler? Not sure if it will go slow enough for what you want, but if you keep your eyes peeled you can probably nab one from the trash and only have to buy the reostat controler..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hey,Thank you for your comments so far.Unfortunately I have no possibility to get some old appliances, to disassemble them… I would definitely prefer to go for a new stuff. What I am hoping for is a “package information”, like: this is link to the motor you need: … this is link to a rheostat…  just put the red wire from the motor electric cord to the input marked A and the blue one to the input B, then plug the rheostat to the electricity and that’s it. Or something like buy this motor, this gearhead you can easily attach to it, and this small thing to adjust the RPM.Or am I just dreaming? Perhaps there is someone who could help me to assemble it all. Please….
Reply:Have you tried Harbor Freight, they have all kinds of thingys like you are looking for?
Reply:I tried to go through harborfreight.comThey have just four Electric Motors, for online purchase just the most expensive one... motors do have 1725 RPM and I have no clue, how to get it to 50-180 RPM I need.I don’t need a high torque, so maybe cheaper low voltage motors could be an option. Is there anyone, who could give me advise, which parts I need to buy, to make it work?Thank you guys in advance Tony
Reply:What kind of torque do you need? How long will you be running the motor? If the answers are 'not much' and 'less than an hour' you could use electric radio controlled airplane components. Check out hobbycity.com. You would need a brushless motor (size depending on the application) a speed controller (dependent on the size of motor) a servo tester and a lipo battery (and charger.) you plug the motor into the speed controller, the speed controller into the battery and servo tester and your ready to go. You would have great control over the RPM and the total would be less that 100 dollars. Also, with a larger battery you could run the system for longer. If you want more info, let me know and I can probably help.
Reply:It sounds like you could use a DC gearmotor with a DC motor controller. The trouble with that idea is that new, the components are fairly expensive. If you got surplus items, they might be affordable. Here's a link to the first DC gearmotor that came up in a quick search at W.W. Grainger; it's controlled speed that would run from about 25 to 250 rpm, it has constant  25 In.-Lbs.of torque through the range,  and runs on 90v DC.GearmotorHere is a page of controllers which would work with that motor; I haven't looked to see the differences between them (which might be significant). One could be run off 110 v. AC, using one power leg and the neutral line of the 220v service, using the necessary breakers, wiring etc. (which you could get done professionally, if you don't know how).ControllersI have lots of stuff like this which I've pulled  out of dumpsters in the past; it always comes in handy eventually, but is getting harder to find nowadays.BTW, what part of the world are you in? You could add that info. to your post by clicking "User CP" to the upper right, and filling in the appropriate blanks.
Reply:have you considered an el-cheapo variable speed drill. I reckon that would solve your problems.ars sine scientia nihil est
Reply:Originally Posted by zorahave you considered an el-cheapo variable speed drill. I reckon that would solve your problems.
Reply:Hi guys!Great ideas, thank you!I live in NY. Just to let you know. I intended to stay in 200 dollars budget, 300 is maximum.Idea of experimentalrc looks great, at the same time reasonably priced.I also considered to buy an electric drill (thanx to Zora and Weldordie), but my main issue is, that you have to stop it, adjust new RPM and run it again. Small wheel on wire would be more “fancy”. And I am bit afraid, if the drill can be on, non stop for some 45 minutes.  What Oldiron2 suggests, is closest to my expectations from the beginning. But I am not sure, if this solution would work within my $300 budget.Does anyone else have suggestions, or concrete proposals within my price range? Thank you!Tony
Reply:Maybe there is someone, who could assemble this for me from some old parts, please feel free to make me an offer :-)
Reply:www.allcorp.comhttp://www.allelectronics.com/make-a...R-MOTOR/1.htmlhttp://www.allelectronics.com/make-a...15-VAC//1.htmlhttp://www.allelectronics.com/make-a...R-MOTOR/1.htmlsearch for surplus gearhead motors.  You probably want a DC motor, 12-24 volt range, and then you can use a DC PWM controller to adjust the speed, OR, since this will be plugged into the wall, you could use an adjustable DC power supply and just twist the knob to get the speed you want.Other DIY / Surplus parts that could work well are the scooter drivetrains or even a full scooter with the chain gear reduction.. probably way overkill on power though.Final thought - how about a pottery wheel. Pedal control speed, very good torque, and goes from 0- ??? way more RPM than you are looking for.  Plus, it comes with a nice round mounting surface.
Reply:I got to thinking about it, but 300 rpm is pretty fast.  That's 5 rotations per second.  For example, 20" circle would be traveling almost 18 mph on the outside circumference. If you wanted to slow things down a bit, a BBQ rotssiere travels between 3 rpm and 6.  They will run you from 20 to 40 bucks.  But if you need better control with more torque, here's a link to a heavy duty pig rotator: http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.co...erie_motor.htmCommon sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Dear jdchmiel, Thank you for your post. I have few additional questions.If I would go with this motor:  http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a...R-MOTOR/1.htmlthe RPM will be just 72 or 144 depending on the Vdc or I could adjust RPM in this range gradually?What is the difference between “DC PWM controller” and “adjustable DC power supply”? If I go with DC PWM I will probably need some converter to get 12/24 from 110, right?If I go with adjustable DC power supply I suppose I won’t need any additional part. How much would be one like this, suitable for mentioned motor?Thank you!Tony
Reply:Pig rotator… not a bad idea :-)As I am growing with your advises, I know, that torque of 20in.-lbs would be more than enough for me. When following link from Brainfarth: http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.co...erie_motor.htmWhat else would I need to adjust RPM of the 1/4hp, 120 RPM motor? (adjustable DC power supply?)Is this motor suitable to run at slower speeds like 30 RPM for about 45 mins? (some types are overheating on slow speeds)  Thanks!Tony
Reply:Tony - 72 rpm at 12v, probably 36 at 6v, might not run reliably at less than half voltage.  Using a DC power supply you could vary it infinitely.  A PWM controller is basically a variable power supply as well, except it varys the on vs the off time of a power supply at a high frequency so the average output can be used to drive a motor.  Electric vehicles use this with a battery pack as the supply.  If you used a pwm controller you would need a dc supply such as 2-3 lead acid batteries in series, and then the controller usually has a variable resistor or optical signal to adjust its output.  a PWM controller will maintain good torque at low RPM on a brushed DC motor.  A DC power supply can be found dirt cheap on ebay, or surplus electronics stores.  Just make sure that you have more current ( amps) than the motor requires.  Voltage is not so critical for a DC motor as it is basically a linear relationship between voltage and speed.    A typical power supply that would work good for you might be a 10 amp 0-30v bench supply.Cordless drills and just about any AC power tool use DC brushed motors, so you could run them from this supply as well. The cordless drill would run at near full speed, where the AC drill would run at around 1/5 speed
Reply:I am wondering if it would be possible to use a lighting dimmer (the one you plug to the outlet, then plug the electric cord to it and turn the knob as desired, example enclosed as a picture) to control the RPM of an electric drill? Will it be safe to run it like this? Attached Images
Reply:I tried to use a wall dimmer switch to control the speed of a 110v motor... Didnt work.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:probably will not work, but a ceiling fan speed controller might.. there are some "dimmer" type devices safe for motors, others that are not. Most will say specifically "not for motors" on them.
Reply:If you need a high torque - high duty cycle variable speed motor and speed control, put a bounty out there for a still working but no longer wanted walking treadmill. Remove the stuff you need and scrap the rest.Matt
Reply:bbq/grill rotisseriehttp://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8Not adjustable but probably turns slow enough for your project.You can purchase a Kit or just the MotorEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireIf you need a high torque - high duty cycle variable speed motor and speed control, put a bounty out there for a still working but no longer wanted walking treadmill. Remove the stuff you need and scrap the rest.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2The only problem with this idea is that the motors typically turn at very high speeds, so a great gearing reduction would be necessary. I suppose that, if a bicycle tire were used on the base (remove the spokes and attach the outer wheel w/ tire to your base) and the motor shaft (maybe with a small rough sleeve to increase the diameter somewhat)  were pushed against the tire, that would work. Those same speed controls would work with any good 90v DC gearmotor though, and that would be easier. Funny I didn't think of these; I have used them before...BTW, treadmills are fairly common on Craiglist's Free section around here, too.You could try a motor and speed controller for an electric scooter. Looks like you could get all you need for under $75.http://www.electricscooterparts.com/index.html
Reply:Great idea! But it seems, that motors start at 2500 RPM, it needs most probably some kind of gearbox. I doubt that motors would run from 0-2500 RPM, or do you think so?Last edited by Tony14; 10-27-2010 at 06:45 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tony14Great idea! But it seems, that motors start at 2500 RPM, it needs most probably some kind of gearbox. I doubt that motors would run from 0-2500 RPM, or do you think so?
Reply:try thishttp://www.mcmaster.com/#synchronous-motors/=9goo1cThese are synchronous motors, RPM range from 1 to 20, hope may help....Fernando LopezElectronics Engineer"Miren lo  que mi cabezita de algodon hizo para sus nenas"
Reply:wow that looks like a winner! slap a disc on that output and plug it into the wall - done.  At $22 each you could buy a few for whatever speeds you want!
Reply:Originally Posted by jdchmielwow that looks like a winner! slap a disc on that output and plug it into the wall - done.  At $22 each you could buy a few for whatever speeds you want!
Reply:Hi guys,Thank you for your comments so far. I am starting to be bit frustrated and afraid, that I won’t be able to realize my project :-(You posted many good Ideas, but with my knowledge, I just cannot find the right combination for me. Isn’t there any web page, where I could buy all necessary components in one place? Or is there anyone who could help me to find (on the web) all necessary parts I need for my project?Or anyone who would dare to assemble this from some surplus pieces for me? Do not hesitate to make me an offer :-)Maybe another option, is there a tool to buy in a hardware shop and adjust it to my needs?Thanks for your valuable help!Tony
Reply:this is another optionhttp://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...N=0&sst=subsetAs you can see on the upper right there's an optional accessory (speed control) that you can connect to the motor, all for just 65 dllsFernando LopezElectronics Engineer"Miren lo  que mi cabezita de algodon hizo para sus nenas"
Reply:Hey, this looks really good!I found on that web page one motor, that is bit stronger 1/40 HP (instead of 1/70HP).Link is:   http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAY...me-Motor-4M076The only problem is, that it has got 3000 RPM and I need interval from 40-160. What RPM can I get with the “AC Motor Speed Control”, that you can see as an Accessory on the right side of the screen?Link is:    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAR...BaseItem=4M076The screws gave me an idea to fix on them some thin plate and use some basic DIY belt transmission. Does anyone have experience with this?And what about heating of the motor on lower RPM? Is this type of motor suitable?Thank you guys for your answer!Tony
Reply:RPM is directly proportional to applied voltage.Specs for this controller (http://www.dartcontrols.com/manuals/catalog2008.pdf) is an output from 0 to 120AC, so in theory, you should have a wide range of  RPM from 0 to 3000.The only thing is that you have to find the correct set up from 40- 160 adjusting the controller knobDon't worry about heating, tha controller is designed to resist this kind of low power dissipation motorsHere you can find the Hook-up instructionshttp://www.dartcontrols.com/Manuals/...0TRIManual.pdfFernando LopezElectronics Engineer"Miren lo  que mi cabezita de algodon hizo para sus nenas"
Reply:Why not just use something like this?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=360312402305--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Hi Fernando,You are talking about that controller for $37.40 that is being sold as an accessory to the motor I mentioned?I am afraid, that if the controller has to adjust RPM from 0-3000, the finetuning between 40-160 will be hard. It would be fine to have a controller that will work just within the range 0-200.Did you mean heating of the controller or the motor itself? I heard, that when motors are running on small RPM, they don’t have enough “spin” to cool themselves.Tony  Originally Posted by locobikerRPM is directly proportional to applied voltage.Specs for this controller (http://www.dartcontrols.com/manuals/catalog2008.pdf) is an output from 0 to 120AC, so in theory, you should have a wide range of  RPM from 0 to 3000.The only thing is that you have to find the correct set up from 40- 160 adjusting the controller knobDon't worry about heating, tha controller is designed to resist this kind of low power dissipation motorsHere you can find the Hook-up instructionshttp://www.dartcontrols.com/Manuals/...0TRIManual.pdf
Reply:The price is amazing,but I suppose you need some kind of controller to change the RPM. How much will it cost?Tony Originally Posted by wintermuteWhy not just use something like this?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=360312402305--Wintermute
Reply:Originally Posted by Tony14The price is amazing,but I suppose you need some kind of controller to change the RPM. How much will it cost?Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by locobikerRPM is directly proportional to applied voltage.
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteNot really...AC motors run only at a specified voltage and the speed variance is controlled by the AC voltage frequency (basically, motors will run slower at 50hz and faster at 60hz, etc...).  AC variable speed motor controllers vary speed by changing the voltage frequency applied to the motor.DC motors on the other hand are controlled by varying the input voltage to the motor.  A 90v DC motor is specifying 90v as it's maximum allowable voltage input.  By lowering the input, you lower the speed, increasing the voltage input increases the speed.Just a bit of clarity.--Wintermute
Reply:All of the controllers I've used control by varying the voltage (all of the ones I've used are modern controllers).  I haven't seen a regular DC motor controller which uses a high frequency controller to vary speed to the motor...but it may just be that the ones I use aren't necessarily as expensive as some others --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Router Speed Controllerhttp://www.woodzone.com/Merchant2/me...ct_Code=828122and shop for a used RouterEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Nice!What is the outlet there? Does it mean, that I can plug electric drill in there and it will work with it?Tony  Originally Posted by Broccoli1Router Speed Controllerhttp://www.woodzone.com/Merchant2/me...ct_Code=828122and shop for a used Router
Reply:I found on eBay many Router Speed Controllers like this one:http://cgi.ebay.com/Router-Speed-Con...#ht_748wt_1135I also tried to find a suitable router, but all of them are at least 20000 RPM which is bad. My concern is, that most probably you couldn’t increase the speed in small steps. I bet it must be much more precise to adjust speeds around 40-180 RPM with a motor having maximum RPM 500 than with a motor, that has maximum RPM 20000. Good thing is, that Controller should work "with any universal AC/CD brush type motor". So now the only remaining thing is to find a suitable motor. Any advice on this guys? Thank you!Tony
Reply:I once had an old gas tank off of a motorcycle that needed to be mechanically cleaned.  We put bb's, rocks, and other hard stuff into it then bungeed it to the wheel of an upside down horse cart.  Then we took an electric drill attached to the base of an old chop saw base that had a strong spring.  The drill then was pushed against the wheel driving the wagon wheel.  I'm not sure if you can picture all this, but the point is:  the drill lasted a long time (> 4 hrs continuous) and it was an oldie that wasn't worth a fart and it was pushing a heavy load that went... Ca Chunk....... Ca Chunk..... Ca Chunk... very tough job.  We were able to pick whatever 'gear ratio' we wanted by changing the drill bit that ran against the wheel.  So in your case, you could come up with a way to push a hand drill against a bicycle wheel (or vice versa) or something smaller / bigger.  In doing so you could get the desired ratio.  I would just run it against the drill chuck and not a drill bit if you had the option.  OR the drill could already be exactly what you needed, in which case you just find a way to turn your canvas directly and your set!  The drill lasting 45 minutes won't be a problem, I don't THINK.  I hope this makes sense.  I'm not sure if you are wanting to change the speed while you are painting but this is certainly a start.  Otherwise, I'm with the guy who suggested a pottery wheel.  Pay a little up front and most of your problems are solved right away.  Foot pedal, flat surface, good motor, ... mmmm.  Cheers
Reply:adjustable height...another artistic tool...A turntable for future sculpture welding...A roller stool to sit on when contemplating new art...hot girls like to watch 'Ghost' while doing pottery with a guy who owns a pottery wheel...Hell, I might buy one.  : )Last edited by engineer1984; 11-03-2010 at 07:15 PM.
Reply:Would an auto heater fan have adequate power? It has speed control. Hook it to a battery, hook the battery to a charger, use the bicycle wheel/ skateboard wheel to slow it down.The fan motor could run all day without overheating- maybe run several hours without recharging.
Reply:What was that... ??? Originally Posted by engineer1984adjustable height...another artistic tool...A turntable for future sculpture welding...A roller stool to sit on when contemplating new art...hot girls like to watch 'Ghost' while doing pottery with a guy who owns a pottery wheel...Hell, I might buy one.  : )
Reply:Hey, that is exactly what I was thinking about… roughly.I don’t want to have my space heaped with trash… so no bicycle wheels or so, even the pottery wheel seems to be quite big :-) I was thinking to fix a drill in a holder, and to make a flat board with a drill bit on its back side. If you say, that drill can run easily for an hour, it is more than enough. My concern is, that most of the drills do not start on 0RPM, but more likely around 100RPM.  If the drill would work with mentioned “Router Speed Controller” its perfect, you could easily set the drill to 200RPM MAX and downgrade it with controller as desired.Did anyone try to connect electric drill to the “Router Speed Controller”?Or the old option, can anyone recommend a cheap motor working with mentioned “Router Speed Controller”?Thank you!Tony Originally Posted by engineer1984I once had an old gas tank off of a motorcycle that needed to be mechanically cleaned....