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I have been playing around running some beads on some scrap. My fillets look pretty decent, vertical is good, my problem is just laying a bead on plate as in a butt weld. I can't for the life of me get a decent bead. I've tried speeding up, slowing down, slight weave. Every bead is humped up to high, just cant get it to flow out on the edges. I'm guessing the if it was a true butt weld with an 1/8" gap or so it would probably help. With stick 7018, 7014, 6013 no problem, lays in like speading butter. All of the beads in the pic below are on 10 ga plate, (.135), 280 IPM of .035 wire (Hobart ER70-6), 17.5 volts, 80/20 gas at 20 CFH. First two beads on left are with a very slight weave, one backhand one forehand. The rest are no weave some drag, some push. Help me out gurus, what the h#!! am I doing wrong?[IMG][/IMG]
Reply:Dragging flattens and widens the bead, but decreases the penetration, whereas pushing narrows the bead and humps it up, but penetrates deeper. Try 19 volts and 300 ipm, dragging. Keep the end of the wire at the leading edge of the puddle. Hanging back in the puddle means you're moving slowly, which increases the deposition and thus the size of the bead.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:me thinks you have them back to front, Push will give a wider, flatter, lower pen bead and pull will give a narrower, more built up but higher pen bead
Reply:You need more heat=voltage. Rule of thumb. 10 ga=0.135 inch. That needs 135 amps. 0.035 wire. 135 x 1.6 = 216 inch / min or 21.6 inches in 6 seconds. Thats a good starting point. There are some welding videos from Stave Bile, Mig and Flux core that are very helpful.
Reply:I agree with the poster who says "You need more heat". Crank her up.Also, and as has been posted, a push will give a flatter bead with slightly less penetration, whereas a pull will give a more humped bead but greater penetration.Rhinorider:Also, keep in mind, that this is an internet forum. You'll get as much bad information here as you get good. Post count is not a reflection of competence. Still important that you do your own research and rely on your own experience and recognized references.Last edited by SundownIII; 06-16-2009 at 11:32 AM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by srp61me thinks you have them back to front, Push will give a wider, flatter, lower pen bead and pull will give a narrower, more built up but higher pen bead
Reply:80/20 gas? Never used that. C25 I would be at 20v and 300ipm. With hard wire it's simply not going to sit down flat the way you want it to just running stringers on top of plate like that. Trying beveling two pieces at about 30deg 1/16 land 1/16 gap tip it up so you can go downhill about 5-6 deg and you will get what you are looking for.
Reply:I think we got a little ahead of our selves, we know nothing about his MIG rig, no idea what were dealing with.
Reply:Hello Rhino from another WV Hillbilly.... You partially nailed it with welding on top of flat plate. Weld does tend to somewhat "hump" up as there is no V or notch to fill.Actually the first bead (left to right) & #7 don't look all that bad. At least the edges are bonded to the base metal. I agree they may be a bit cold or your movement possibly just a bit slow.My single biggest constructive criticsm is, Your welds are a bit uneven like you are not really in a comfortable position.I don't know your experience level, or how long you have been welding. I've seen much worse from 6 month, 5 day per week, trade school so called graduates.Keep at it. welding material together is not that hard to do. It takes time & practice to develope nice even welds. At least you are asking the right questions & not just assuming everything is fine because you can join a couple pieces of metal. I've been welding for many years, & still learn new tricks to the trade quite often. I'm sure Desertriders mistake in his post was accidental. I've read many of his posts & can tell you he isn't in the habbit of passing out bad advice.IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT2 Lincoln CV-300 / LN-7 GMALinde-VI 253,400 & 450 w/MIG35 feedersCNC Table with Oxweld O/A & Hypertherm 1250G3Lincoln Ranger GXT 250Hobart-MicroWire 300ESAB Heliarc 161ESAB-Mobilemaster 2 CC/CV Feeders& more
Reply:Another note after re-reading your post. I don't think 20CFH of gas is quite enough to keep yourself out of trouble if you get the slightest hint of air movement across your welds. It most likely doesn't have anything to do with your beads looking a bit humped up. 20CFH is about right for TIG. 35-40CFH is more common for MIGI don't see anything apearance wise in the pic to indicate porosity from lack of gas in your welds. You might want to keep an eye on your flow rate though. Below is a small section from an article on www.thefabricator.com :"What Is the Optimal Gas Flow?Shielding gas flow rates are determined by the process, welding position, and operating parameters. With GTAW, flow rates typically are from 10 to 20 cubic feet per hour (CFH). For GTAW, using a torch with a gas lens will help ensure a laminar flow, which contributes not only to better weld quality, but also to 10 percent or lower gas consumption rates. With GMAW and FCAW, recommended flow rates vary widely—30 to 45 CFH—depending on the welding position, operating current, and shielding gas composition. For flat-position welding, helium-enhanced mixtures will require slightly higher flow rates than argon-based blends. Gas flow rates may be reduced if the nozzle-to-work distance is kept as close as possible. In many instances, production site surveys determine that shielding gas flow rates typically are set in excess of 50 CFH. This can contribute to poor weld quality as atmospheric gases are drawn into the arc zone because of excessive gas turbulence. Optimized flow enhances quality and reduces shielding gas usage."IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT2 Lincoln CV-300 / LN-7 GMALinde-VI 253,400 & 450 w/MIG35 feedersCNC Table with Oxweld O/A & Hypertherm 1250G3Lincoln Ranger GXT 250Hobart-MicroWire 300ESAB Heliarc 161ESAB-Mobilemaster 2 CC/CV Feeders& more
Reply:Hey Millman long time no hear. To everyone that has replied thank you so much, didn't have time to run anymore tonight, but plan on it tommorow, I'll post up more then. I did run a couple more playing around last night, cranked it up. 27 volts, wfs 350, 80/20 at 40cfh. spraying fool looked pretty decent. Mill you are partially right, wasn't uncomfortable position, it is called broken bifocals. New ones are being made that might help too if I could see.
Reply:Originally Posted by millman52Another note after re-reading your post. I don't think 20CFH of gas is quite enough to keep yourself out of trouble if you get the slightest hint of air movement across your welds. It most likely doesn't have anything to do with your beads looking a bit humped up. 20CFH is about right for TIG. 35-40CFH is more common for MIG
Reply:Dont neglect high gas flow. Too much gas can cause the surrounding air to be drawn into the weld puddle.
Reply:Originally Posted by transitDon’t neglect high gas flow. Too much gas can cause the surrounding air to be drawn into the weld puddle.
Reply:Lot of BS being thrown out in this thread.I suspect (not sure cause the OP seems to want to keep it a secret) that he is using a rather small mig based on the appearance of the beads. If so, 15-20 CFH is more than adequate for a small machine (under 250A), again assuming he's welding inside. None of the beads appear to have any porosity which would be an indication of lack of covering gas.Too high a flow rate can be just as bad as not enough. Too high a flow causes turbulance and brings in contaminants from the atmosphere.Guys who are recommending 40+ CFH must work for the gas supplier. That's the only reason I can think of. If it gets so windy that I'd have to run my gas that high (short arc MIG) on steel, I'd switch to fluxcore, put up shields, or move the project to another location.I sometimes run a flow that high, but it's when I'm using a helium blend with TIG.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown, I'm sure you are right that with a small machine, small gun & nozzle, & lower heat settings in a controlled environment 20CFH is most likely adequate. I merely commented that Rhino should keep an eye on it.1 large tank of CO2 $18.50 running 35 CFH 300A gun will put down apx 130# of dualshield.045-1/16" wire. If I cut gas back to 25-30 CFH & the welder gets porosity in a section & has to gouge it out, clean it & re weld it. His wages are $15.00 hr. I don't think I have saved anything on gas. My experience is mainly with heavier steel 3/8" - 1 1/2" running 275A - 300A big guns & high feed rates. I apologise for getting OT to the exact question at hand. & for all the BS I post.IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT2 Lincoln CV-300 / LN-7 GMALinde-VI 253,400 & 450 w/MIG35 feedersCNC Table with Oxweld O/A & Hypertherm 1250G3Lincoln Ranger GXT 250Hobart-MicroWire 300ESAB Heliarc 161ESAB-Mobilemaster 2 CC/CV Feeders& more
Reply:Millman52,My comment wasn't directed at you specifically, even though you were the first to mention gas flow.The OP asked a question about bead profile, not about getting porosity in his beads.Looking at the photos, I saw no evidence of lack of gas coverage. What I did see is a lack of heat (generally too low a setting on the machine) and a lack of consistency in controlling the gun. These things come from experience.The OP stated that he was using an 80/20 mix of Argon/CO2. Not a common mix, but close to C25. I suspect his LWS is selling that mix as a short arc/spray mix, although I've found mixes of less that 18% CO2 to work better for spray. My favorite is C8 (92% Argon/2% CO2). All the discussion about flowmeters freezing apply only to straight CO2, not an Argon rich mix. Several of the manufacturer's even state in their literature that, if using straight CO2, a different flowmeter is recommended.;When setting up a new machine or changing welding locations, I'll run a few test beads to establish the environment, dropping my gas flow down to where I begin to get porosity in the beads. Once that point is established, I'll increase my flow by about 3-4 CFH and go for it. Excess gas flow (say twice what's required) just wastes money and can cause it's own set of problems.As I said before and looking again at the beads posted, gas flow was NOT the OP's problem. Once you brought it up a bunch of posters jumped on the bandwagon with a lot of BS that not only was incorrect but added nothing to the real issue. I cannot envision a situation where I'd use 40-50 CFH for short arc welding with a smaller machine.To quote an established reference, I refer to Miller's Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW) handbook, page 65, "For short circuit transfer, these argon-CO2 gas flow rates are generally in the 15-20 cubic feet per hour (CFH) range. Flow rates are generally increased to 30-40 CFH for spray transfer."From the general tone of this post, sounds to me like there are a bunch of newbie's out there "wasting gas".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Hey guys I don't know what is going on with this computer, I replied a couple times and seems my posts got lost in cyberland. Oh well, I'll try again. My rig is an ESAB 260 migmaster, it will mig, DC tig and stick. 100% duty cycle at 200 amp, 50% at 260 amp, max out at 300 amp, so it has some guts.The 80/20 mix is all my LWS had, beside of 90/8/2. Wire is Hobart ER70-6 .035. Flow meter is an ESAB Prestolight.My machine also came with a spoolgun MT-250 SG, but it needs new consumables (nozzle and tip) and a new plastic cover over the drive wheels. And also a tank of Argon.As far as tig, I don't have a torch or foot pedal yet but that is on my list.I ran some stick with it when I first got it and it runs great. I have only stick welded before, I'm no expert buy a long shot but I can hold my own. Mig is totally new to me, I did run a bead of vertical up when I first got it with the mig and it turned out well (pic below)The wide bead beside the vertical was stick 1/8 inch 7014 at 130 amps ran flat. The bead at the top was 3/32 6013 at 85 amps also flat (and after I broke my bifocals ) I am going to cut some coupons and join them together as soon as I can, probably tommorow, I'll post them then.Again guys thanks for your help.
Reply:Ok here are some pics of some more practice. I cut some coupons and stuck them together. My butt welds still need alot of work. Go hard on me guys, that's the only way I'll learn.19V, 300 WFS, 80/20 @20 CFH1. Push, to slow?2. Push, start out to fast, middle fair, start/stop well lets not mention that one!3. Push, undercut, to fast?[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]4. Drag, 19v, 300 wfs 80/20 @20 CFH, to slow?5. Same as 4 but increased arc distance, burn through 6. 18V, 290 WFS, 80/20 @ 20CFH[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]7. 18V, 290 WFS, Tad bit to cold, to slow? had wire feed problems toward the end, pushing8. Wire feeding problems9. 18.5 V, 290 WFS, 1 stop/restart, a tad bit slow? [IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]Fillet 1. 18v, 290 WFS,To cold, tad slow?Fillet 2. 18.5v, 290 WFS, Much better?[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
Reply:When your ripples look like pointed arrows <<<<<<, you're moving the torch too fast. You want the ripples to look like C's laying over eachother ((((((((((((.Are you freehanding the torch, or using the other hand to help guide? Work on moving the torch in a straight line. Maybe spend some time just moving the torch along a line, without welding anything. Just move the end of the wire down the joint a few times with the machine off, then weld.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I agree with DR I seem to get the <<<< if the heat is a bit high based on feed speed also. Over the years I have learned to adjust the speed I move to help compensate.I think you will have better success on the butt welds if you v them out on top & have a tight joint on bottom. I also run butts with only a slight pull, in fact almost straight in.On a short pass like the ones pictured I try to get 1 elbow propped on table if using a table & use both hands. If having to weld freehand I try to pull both elbows into my body & move with my knees.You have to find something that works for you to keep the angle of the wire, the distance, & same speed from beginning to end of the pass. In other words be as much like a robot as possible.When making heat/feed adjustments do just 1 or the other & try to keep your pass speed the same. Make small adjustments till you find a sweet spot. It really looks like practice is mainly what you need. Mayby not so much that your adjustments are off.IF IT WORKS, DON'T FIX IT2 Lincoln CV-300 / LN-7 GMALinde-VI 253,400 & 450 w/MIG35 feedersCNC Table with Oxweld O/A & Hypertherm 1250G3Lincoln Ranger GXT 250Hobart-MicroWire 300ESAB Heliarc 161ESAB-Mobilemaster 2 CC/CV Feeders& more
Reply:Ok I'll try again. Thanks for the input guys. How does my vertical look in post #18?
Reply:I think you have the gap too wide, try using a piece of wire as a spacer, 0.035 inch and a V notch. The TRUE test of the weld quality is to break it. Try the Mig videos by Steve Bilel.
Reply:where can I find those videos? I did a Google search for Mig videos by Steve Bilel and only got hip hop music
Reply:Originally Posted by Rhinoriderwhere can I find those videos? I did a Google search for Mig videos by Steve Bilel and only got hip hop musicOriginally Posted by Rhinoriderwhere can I find those videos? I did a Google search for Mig videos by Steve Bilel and only got hip hop music
Reply:Originally Posted by millman52EEEEEeeeeeech Wanted a video & got hip hop. I'd almost rather have my toenails pulled out with vice grips. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:45:39