Some Overhead Stuff

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It's ok, they're not the greatestCounting the welds on the plate, they're about the 20th Overhead welds to date.Figured they'd be interesting, if not entertaining.First pic..........final full drop in a hitch plate 4 1/2 inches from the "as built" condition.Second pic..... tieing in 2 pieces of channel.  Scalloped cutout made in lower piece to make for full contact/penetration/tooth.  Whatever.  A hopefully good mechanical connection.  Welds on face of channel in another post sometime down the road. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Now for the fillets.First set of pics show welds made at too low amps.  Arc outages, and no "wet" puddle.  NOt good weldsPic one, and two........ speaks for itself.  3/32 at 75amps  Either intermittant, or too droopy on the joint profileIt's a learning process, and worth sharing Attached ImagesLast edited by farmersamm; 08-09-2009 at 03:10 AM.Reason: messed up the sequence of pics"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Getting it sort of dialed inThis is a tapped machine.  Lincoln crackerbox85ampsFirst pic..... getting used to itSecond pic..... getting happy with itConsistency is still a problem, but the dog's on the prowl.Non whipping oscillation.  Tight circles within the weld crater, arc never out of the puddle.Not quite there yet, but there's good things on the horizonThought I'd share it.  New trip down a new roadI'm enjoying the daylights out of it.  Hope the pics didn't get out of sequence Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Sam, you aren't getting skeered layin under there are ya?  I'd turn er up a bit and ditch the whipping.  Just for kicks, clamp a piece of scrap under there, strike an arc and see just how long it takes before it drips.  You might be surprised.  Dripping slag doesn't count.  I'm talkin about molten steel.
Reply:Gettin' closer Jim"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammgettin' closer jim
Reply:IE... tryin' to do betterSHOW ME THE WAY"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:85 amps AC?  7018?  Don't think I have 3/32", but I got 1/8" and generated some fresh scrap today
Reply:85 DC+ 7018.  It's a work in progress"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It's why I put them up.Hope to see your advice in the morningLater  After 2 out here"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:sorry Sam, pics didn't come out worth a ****, but I tried.1/8" Hobart 7018-1. I prefer the -1 stuff cuz it seems to stay where you put it better than the H4R. It is harder to start though.  Maybe it's all in my head?  First pic is with right hand starting at the edge of the plate and working towards center.  No lead and rod was pointed more at the top plate.  Last pic is with the left hand just for kicks.  All was done at 105 amps DC+ on 1/8" material.  Looks like I need to practice more...Remember the dripping test I mentioned.  Just to prove a point (mostly to myself cuz nobody else was here) I did all the welding shirtless while sitting in a chair underneath the pieces.And the pieces are upside down in the pics.  I flipped them over thinking the lighting would be better for the pics, but they were welded overhead. Attached Images
Reply:I'm nowhere near the point I could even attempt sheet with the larger rod.  I'd have it looking like swiss cheese  I was working with 3/16 plateThe closest I could come to a drag was in the last of my pics where I got comfortable with the higher amps.  Seemed to "stick" better at higher amps.I'm pretty much almost pointed up in the joint too.  Probably near a 60 degree angle(or more), not quite sure, but not a straight 45 degreesI seem to be settling on the Excalibur.  In this case anyway, it was hard to maintain a good arc with the Hobart.  I tried both.  The Excalibur seemed to run a bit hotter.  I may have been having some work clamp issues too.  The underside of the bed's pretty rusty.  The closer I could locate the clamp to the weld area, the better it seemed to work.What actual movement are you doing in the puddle, if any?NO SHIRT!!!!!YOU'RE AN ANIMAL!!!!!!!!Forget the metal, I'd be lookin' like swiss cheese Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:You'll get it. Just keep on keepin' on. Try experimenting with rod sizes and angles and heat settings and you will find the sweet spot. The cleaner you can get your metal, the easier it will be. It's not something you learn overnight.  At least I didn't and I've never known anyone else that did.I see rod size and amp settings given all the time. Something I never see is lead length and size. Both of these have a bearing on your amp settings.
Reply:i dont understand why people whip a low hydrogen rod, its not a fast freeze rod you dont need too nor should you as it voids many codes. To acquire quality structural welds with a low hydrogen rod the first and most important when it comes to any welding process is "clean" material, i stand by this quite strongly as 100% of the pipe joints i do are dye pen'd and xray'd depending on what the procedure calls for. That material should be ground to 100% fresh material, its all about eliminating the variables that can produce a defective weld. The only thing you should be worried about while welding is rod manipulation, arc length, and rod angle.
Reply:It's been the hardest thing to "undo" that I've ever attempted.  It's like quitting smoking.The closer I get to no manipulation, the happier I've been with the results.  It's been so long that I've done it the wrong way that it's like unlearning muscle memoryI need to form a local chapter of WA (Whippers Anonymous) Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:If it was me I would run a 1/8 7018 rod no manipulation to the rod at all run dc electrode positive run it about 120 amps and just drag it across watch your puddle it should be a u shape not a v shape.. What ever you do before you strike an arc get your self comfortable and clean your metal good makes thing nice... But on a good note your getting their but I would grind out the bad welds and redo them..
Reply:I'd say about 30% of the welds have been ground out and redone on this thing Seems to be a better reminder/learning aid than running a bunch of coupons.  After a while you get sick of grinding, and start doing something rightYears ago, I built heavy lift capability (well, for what I do anyway) to get around OP welding.Finally decided recently that it was time to quit messing around, and get on with learning OP.My vacation time was so short that I didn't get around to getting help on the OH, just the Vertical. BUY STOCK IN THE FLEXOVIT COMPANY I'll be using a LOT of their products for a while  You'll become wealthyI'm becoming intimately aquainted with the grinder these days"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:No manipulation in my welds other than the normal shaking.  I try and get the welder set so that the flux rubs the fresh steel just ahead of the puddle.  It's just hot enough not to stick in the middle of a weld. Little tricky to start, but a no brainer after that.  Don't know how to explain it other than that.  It helps me maintain a consistant arc length and the arc keeps the slag toward the edges of the puddle.  It also helps keep me steady, cuz I always stick weld one handed.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI'm pretty much almost pointed up in the joint too.  Probably near a 60 degree angle(or more), not quite sure, but not a straight 45 degrees
Reply:Originally Posted by gordfraserid go for closer to 90 degrees. maybee a very slight pull angle, 5degrees max.the more angle the bigger the pool that you have to keep up there.
Reply:Everyone is giving you good advice; especially Pressure Welder. Remember 7018 is a short arc rod; the amps have to be high enough to sustain a short arc without sticking. I want to add, that regardless of position being welded in, the rod should point to the sweet spot between the members being welded. When you are doing a lap joint, as in the photos; the end of the thin member is taking heat very quickly, relative to the flat area of the metal underneath it. In other words, less heat is needed to melt the end part of the lap: it pays to angle the rod so as to focus somewhat more heat into the underlying plate (relatively, it needs more heat to melt)Give er a whirl.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI think it's great man!!!!!  Old dog, new tricksMeanwhile, the grinder is kept idling at the standby
Reply:Its quite nice to see someone willing to take critisim to better themselves in this trade. In my opinion welding is by far one of the hardest trades to learn and or maintain. Their is no other trade that requires you to test every year if not more to uphold a certain licience or certification. Take what you've learned here and apply it and your welds will improve, understand that by my visual conception, your welds are indeed structurally sound so check that off your list, all your focusing on now is simply visual appearence which will come very fast by tweaking the smallest of parameters. A good point was made about focusing your heat on the thicker material and "washing" your weld pool onto the thinner just to catch that edge long enough to eliminate under cut. Your doing very well, keep up the good work.
Reply:Samm, I think you are doing real good.Someone once told me that welding overhead was the same as welding flat, just upside down.Sounds stupid, but it stuck with me, and I had an easier time after that.
Reply:Originally Posted by daddySamm, I think you are doing real good.Someone once told me that welding overhead was the same as welding flat, just upside down.Sounds stupid, but it stuck with me, and I had an easier time after that.Originally Posted by farmersammI'd say about 30% of the welds have been ground out and redone on this thing Seems to be a better reminder/learning aid than running a bunch of coupons.  After a while you get sick of grinding, and start doing something rightYears ago, I built heavy lift capability (well, for what I do anyway) to get around OP welding.Finally decided recently that it was time to quit messing around, and get on with learning OP.My vacation time was so short that I didn't get around to getting help on the OH, just the Vertical. BUY STOCK IN THE FLEXOVIT COMPANY I'll be using a LOT of their products for a while  You'll become wealthyI'm becoming intimately aquainted with the grinder these days
Reply:I really like the "fast grind" wheels.  Very fast cut, but do wear out pretty fast.  I don't put the price of wheels high on the list of saving bucks.  I just wanna get outta thereSeems that if you let the RPM's, and the wheel do the work, without leaning on the grinder, it's pretty good.If you start increasing feed rate too much, the wheel tends to become cobbly (pretty scientific huh?), and you start picking up vibration.  Lean in too much and the wheel gets glazed too.I'm sorta easy on grinders.  I don't push them too much.  They seem to go a long time between rebuilds.  I get a gear kit for the head and put it in about maybe every other year.But then again, I don't run a production shop.  So maybe there are better wheels out there better suited to continuous duty"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The one on the left is the cheaper wheel.  It seems to be more susceptible to friction.  IE it builds a LOT of friction, and cutting actionThe better quality wheel on the right a (rapid grind) wheel is almost indestructable, but doesn't cut as fast.I'm the same with brake shoes, and disc pads, on a truck.  I want the cheaper, softer, material that generates maximum friction.  Friction = stopping power.  Also, the "lifetime" brake components eat your drums and discs.  I'd rather replace pads and linings than fork over moola for rotors and drumsI can buy "lifetime" brake linings, but it's like "steppin' on a plumb" to quote CW McCall  They're too doggone hard to generate enough stopping power. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/