Carbon Arc Gouging Question

admin

My father-in-law asked me if my TIG/Stick welder was capable of carbon arc gouging. I simply replied with an, "I don't really know," answer. I can't find a manual for the Airco in my sig anywhere online, so here is my question. I know that arc gouging and cutting is very hard on a welding machine and that it takes some serious power to be able to do it. Is my Airco capable of light-duty(under 300amps) gouging and if it is, how small of a carbon should I be running with it. I know different sized carbons require a different amount of amperage to be used properly but having never arc gouged myself I don't know what the specs are for the different sizes. We do have 2 air compressors that are quite capable of the amount of air-flow needed for arc gouging. One of the compressors is 240v while the other has a 13hp Honda GX390 gasoline engine on it. If my welding machine is capable of light-duty gouging, we would most likely be using the gasoline compressor as it pumps up super fast and recovers even faster when using it. I have no intentions of trying any gouging until I get a response from this thread because I don't want to damage my machine in any way and I also don't know what size of carbons I should be using either. My father-in-law is experienced in USING carbon arc gouging, but he always had somebody else setup the machine for him so he doesn't know how the machine should be set. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks everyone.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Short answer = Don't do it.My Dad raised me with several down home sayings -- One was "Son, do something.... even if it's wrong". It's been a life full of learning by doing.Over the past 45 years I have probably overloaded welders made by every manufacturer. Air arc gouging and stress relieving are both severe applications.I'm now at the point in life where arc gouging is done by a "dedicated" machine. Usually in the 400 amp range. Kind of like going to the used car lot and picking out a truck and designating it as the "farm truck". Set it up to stay on the farm, use it for farm chores and don't plan on taking it out for a Saturday night date.JMHO........HoboLincoln SA200's... at least 15 - 20. They come and go. Growing partial to the "Short Hoods" in my old age. Last count on Short Hoods was 13 in possession.
Reply:Kinda what I figured. It's not a big deal to me, my father-in-law was the one that wanted to know if it could be done or not. I'll just tell him if he wants to arc gouge to get his own machine. I'm way to fond of my machine to have something bad happen to it.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:I would not cac with an inverter tig machine.. a big transformer based machine probably wouldn't be hurt..1/4" pointed carbons are meant for 300-400A, 5/16" are 350-450A.. For flat carbons..3/8" wide x 1/4" are rated for the same..Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:O/A gouging tip or plasma if possible, save your machine.Last edited by Old Skool; 08-21-2012 at 01:35 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by JohnRI would not cac with an inverter tig machine.. a big transformer based machine probably wouldn't be hurt..1/4" pointed carbons are meant for 300-400A, 5/16" are 350-450A.. For flat carbons..3/8" wide x 1/4" are rated for the same..
Reply:I have a carbon arc, but for most projects I like to use my plasma cutter, no carbon mixed with the slag. Sometimes the plasma torch will not reach into a tight spot, so it's back to a carbon rod. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Sorry to hijack, but... What is the advantage to CAG vs. oxy-fuel?Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtySorry to hijack, but... What is the advantage to CAG vs. oxy-fuel?
Reply:Originally Posted by blasphemy000Kinda what I figured. It's not a big deal to me, my father-in-law was the one that wanted to know if it could be done or not. I'll just tell him if he wants to arc gouge to get his own machine. I'm way to fond of my machine to have something bad happen to it.
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireGood choice... Single phase transformers don't like to DC gouge at all, even with the little 1/8 & 5/32" carbons. You can get small AC carbons & gouge with the machine set that way... But I wouldn't!Matt
Reply:I can flame cut stainlessSent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Reply:What Kind Of flame?  Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerWhat Kind Of flame?  Mac
Reply:Correct me if I'm wrong, but, hasn't plasma pretty much made CAG obsolete?Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Carbon arc will never be obsolete as long as guys crack buckets and mangle booms on pieces of equipment. My hissing cobra (Arcair K4000) is the size of another stinger and a box of carbons is barley noticable on the truck. I will not be carrying a plasma cutter any time soon.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:You are right CEP. I forgot about that.  The reason I asked is that I have to cut some pieces of stainless castings that are very complicated shapes and all curves like a Y shape about 1/2 to 3/4 inches thick. Iv'e almost got them whittled out with my plasma torch but it is really only good for 3/8. I have a carbon arc unit but not enough amperage to use it. Its a bitch to take on work that is to big for my tools  Mac
Reply:I worked in a shop that actually used a Miller Detlaweld (CV power source) to CAG and we just cranked up the voltage. It worked pretty good.Go hot, or go home!
Reply:There is a caution about using CV for gouging.  I checked with Arcair concerning this.  When running CV the amperage skyrockets on contact and the carbon explodes off the tip of the electrode driving excess carbon into the surface of the metal thereby raising the carbon content when filled with weld metal.   I have seen bend test fails for no apparent reason on tests that required back gouging and the welder had used CV to gouge.   And that is why Arcair recommends using constant current power sources.  On CV it is actually easier to gouge.
Reply:We use xmt 304s for gouging but we pair two together to not overload them.Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2ESAB MigMaster 275Miller Econotwin HFMiller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I've done a bit of arc air gouging with single phase 230v transformer welders and small carbons. 250 amp min. His airco should do just fine. That's a big old brute that should handle it no problem.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Cag has been the goto for years in the repair business but i use plasma now But cag will probable never be replaced by plasma that goes for O/A tooBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Any thing will work CV/CC we gouge 1000 amps all the time , you can get AC carbons at my part time job we gouge with a toumbstone it works fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyCorrect me if I'm wrong, but, hasn't plasma pretty much made CAG obsolete?
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingCarbon arc will never be obsolete as long as guys crack buckets and mangle booms on pieces of equipment. My hissing cobra (Arcair K4000) is the size of another stinger and a box of carbons is barley noticable on the truck. I will not be carrying a plasma cutter any time soon.Nothing about gouging is inherently hard on machines, like using old skool pipe warmers is. Just pay attention to the duty cycle, and don't push it. CAG gets a bad rap because people jump on it, and try to get the job done without thinking about the machines' limits, because most of the time they dont have to. I have run the setup with the carbon in one hand, blow nozzle in the the other, and I think it works better than the CAG rigs. I have cut a big old SS tank to pieces this way with my Airco 250. 3 minutes on, 10 minutes off.
Reply:Originally Posted by DavidbrownNothing about gouging is inherently hard on machines
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manI am guessing the reason CAG-A gets its bad rap is because when gouging, alot of times you will be choppy instead of a long smooth gouge. And you are using the upper amperages of the machines. So when it's choppy, your machine is going from high amp output, to no output, and right back to high output. I think this is what makes it so hard on equipment. I hope that came out correctly.
Reply:I have gouged on Syncrowaves, old Idealarcs, XMT inverters, my Trailblazer, SA200 and SA-250 and they all still run fine. Just don't beat the bag off of the machine and you will be fine.Last edited by TozziWelding; 09-09-2012 at 10:06 PM.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingI have gouged on Syncrowaves, old Idealarcs, XMT inverters, my Trailblazer, SA200 and SA-250 and they all still run fine. Just don't beat the bag off of the machine and you will be fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XI have one of these, and it's a great match for smaller machines.. The air required is way less then the 4000  model, and well suited for a home shop/etc....http://store.cyberweld.com/arcaarcgotok.html
Reply:wow, those are pricy. We just unloaded a gangbox with about 100 of those in it at work.ESAB MigMaster 275Miller Econotwin HFMiller Syncrowave 250