Can't stick weld with other than 6013?

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I've been stick welding for a few months now and the only rod I've been able to actually produce useable results with has been the 6013.  My boss swears by 6011 and keeps suggesting I try it but every time I do I either get terrible burn through or with less current, constant sticking.I'm welding 14g 1-1/4" steel square tube.  With 6013 rods I use 90A on my Lincoln AC-225.How can I expand my capabilities to use 6011 or maybe 7018 rods?  If these are the most useful rods to master, that is.Here is one of my current projects I've been learning to weld on.  It's a component of a high power stereo system.
Reply:I hope you don't plan on building an all metal sub enclosure.  They sound like chit....My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by creycHow can I expand my capabilities to use 6011 or maybe 7018 rods?
Reply:try using 6011 on thicker metal.  on 14ga you are using the rod of choice.
Reply:I use 6011 all the time on 14 guage.  Whip out to let the puddle freeze and then whip back to re-establish a puddle.  Takes practice is all.  I don't use 6013 for anything except letting the young uns practice anymore.Have your boss show you his technique.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:If you do try 7018, go with 3/32 AC rods with that 90 amp AC machine.   You'll be in the lower half of the current range for 3/32 7018.   3/32 6011 will work ok just need to learn how to run it.  If you don't like the whip and pause method, move it in small circles and that accomplishes the freeze/fill motion without as much concentration on timing, spacing and arc length.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:No sense in struggling with 6011 on 14ga material.  It's a deep penetrating rod. You're already using the ideal rod for your application.Kevin- Springtown, TexasTruck:Chevy cab/ chassis 1 ton dually, big block and flatbedMiller BobcatVictor cutting rigTool boxes crammed full of stuffShop:Millermatic 250Lincoln 135Lincoln 225AC tombstone
Reply:I love these threads that always say the same thing...its too hard to use 6011 on thin stock. Cracks me up. Hey Farmersam, can you use 6011/6010 on thin stuff???QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:It's not about comparing to see who is the best welder and can put down the slickest 6011 bead.He is building a project out of 14ga that he wants to look nice. That's 6013 territory. For a guy learning 6011 manipulation just starting off, he could choose a better material to weld on.Last edited by Ayers Garage; 10-12-2009 at 03:40 PM.Kevin- Springtown, TexasTruck:Chevy cab/ chassis 1 ton dually, big block and flatbedMiller BobcatVictor cutting rigTool boxes crammed full of stuffShop:Millermatic 250Lincoln 135Lincoln 225AC tombstone
Reply:Not comparing. Not comparing at all. That is why I asked Sam. The 6011 is much easier to use, esp on sheet metal than everyone says. He knows because I showed him how to do it.  It burns at a lower heat than the 6013 and thus makes it easier to limit burn through. It also freezes much faster thereby filling holes easier. Light slag keeps the inclusions down. I can see from the OP's pic, he has trouble with inclusions. IME and IMO, a 7014 actually works better than the 6013 any day of the week. I would rather have the 6010-6011 for that stuff anyway. I'll use it all the way down to 20 ga.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Don, I dont recall ever doing any 20ga but I have used 6011 on 16 and 18ga galvy decking...and it does work purdy good...just gotta be quick
Reply:Good explanation.I'm new and not really an argumentative person. I don't want to make a sour first impression. I am here to learn all I can. I just know that a new guy like the original poster (and myself to an extent) can sometimes deal with a lot of frustration with new processes. I personally struggle with 6011 manipulation on thinner material. For my skill level, 6013 is like a gift from Heaven on thin tubing like that.Teaching yourself to weld is hard enough even under the best circumstances.Kevin- Springtown, TexasTruck:Chevy cab/ chassis 1 ton dually, big block and flatbedMiller BobcatVictor cutting rigTool boxes crammed full of stuffShop:Millermatic 250Lincoln 135Lincoln 225AC tombstone
Reply:TEK, 20 ga is a pain on a good day. I found many times that a 1/8 6011 worked best as in no burn through...or not as much. The rest was 3/32 6010's for me. Nearly 10 years of nothing but 18 and 16 ga sheet and most of that was galvanized.Ayers, I am self taught as well. Well enough I can pass tests and do what I need to do. It is tough, but it can be done, though. It takes tons of practice..literally tons. You must learn what you can and can't do and there is only one way to do it....under hood. 14ga is not thin in my book. Not by a long shot. It is way more forgiving than even 16 ga. Like Desertrider and TEK sad, manipulate and move fast. You have to learn to whip, too. Once you learn how to do it, it is extremely easy. Running DCEN makes it the easiest. You are putting more heat into the rod rather than the work. That will help prevent burn through. The OP has an AC crackerbox...DC tips won't help him at all. You have a Bobcat 225 according to your sig line. I have had one of those since they first came out. Set your machine at 60a DCEN, you must use a positive ground, then get some 3/32 6011's and see what happens with 16-14ga.  For 18 ga, I'll drop about 5a or maybe a little more depending on how it melts. You must move quickly, no other way to do it.Last edited by DDA52; 10-12-2009 at 04:35 PM.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52TEK, 20 ga is a pain on a good day. I found many times that a 1/8 6011 worked best as in no burn through...or not as much. The rest was 3/32 6010's for me. Nearly 10 years of nothing but 18 and 16 ga sheet and most of that was galvanized.Ayers, I am self taught as well. Well enough I can pass tests and do what I need to do. It is tough, but it can be done, though. It takes tons of practice..literally tons. You must learn what you can and can't do and there is only one way to do it....under hood. 14ga is not thin in my book. Not by a long shot. It is way more forgiving than even 16 ga. Like Desertrider and TEK sad, manipulate and move fast. You have to learn to whip, too. Once you learn how to do it, it is extremely easy. Running DCEP makes it the easiest. You are putting more heat into the rod rather than the work. That will help prevent burn through. The OP has an AC crackerbox...DC tips won't help him at all. You have a Bobcat 225 according to your sig line. I have had one of those since they first came out. Set your machine at 60a DCEP, you must use a positive ground, then get some 3/32 6011's and see what happens with 16-14ga.  For 18 ga, I'll drop about 5a or maybe a little more depending on how it melts. You must move quickly, no other way to do it.
Reply:OK, I'll help if I can. One thing to note ... in my post, I made a goof. It should read DCEN....Electrode Negative, ground positive or straight polarity. I corrected the post, but your quote didn't update.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Originally Posted by Ayers GarageIt's not about comparing to see who is the best welder and can put down the slickest 6011 bead.He is building a project out of 14ga that he wants to look nice. That's 6013 territory. For a guy learning 6011 manipulation just starting off, he could choose a better material to weld on.
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52OK, I'll help if I can. One thing to note ... in my post, I made a goof. It should read DCEN....Electrode Negative, ground positive or straight polarity. I corrected the post, but your quote didn't update.
Reply:just so it can be said, i use 6010/11 on thin stock mostly, and i didn't intend to imply that it couldn't or shouldn't.  my intention was to affirm the guy that the 6013 is the manufactures rod choice for thin material.
Reply:Thank you guys for the wealth of information.I will have to try the 6011 again with that whipping and pausing technique, it makes sense.And yes I have gotten my share of slag inclusions on this project, but remember it is literally my first time ever picking up a stick welder.  When I try the 6011 again I'll get some better pictures of the welds showing that some of my later welds are actually not too terrible. As far as grinding the welds down to the parent material in some places, that's mostly for a reason.  In those places there will either be another piece welded in later, or a wooden panel needs to mount flush against the tube.  I leave as much of the weld bead as possible, where possible.  (unless it's just too embarassing, like some of my out of position attempts  )Also as far as amperage I'm using 90A with 1/8" 6013 electrodes as it seems to be less prone to burnthrough than the higher settings.  I prefer moving slow since I'm just getting the hang of this.  How many amps should I start with for an 1/8" 6011 rod on the same 14g material?
Reply:A 3/32 rod would be better. You would have to run at or near the low end of the range for an 1/8 rod. 70-75a AC, 65-70a DC. The arc will be super short, so that will make it hard for a beginner skill set. The 3/32 would be much easier to keep lit. Say, 65-70a AC. All you can really do is get some scrap and try out the various rods and settings and see what you can make work the best. I know DC settings because that is all I use.....AC settings I have to guess at, but they are usually about 10a higher than DC.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:LIke the origina poster on this thread, I used to think that a low penetration rod like 6013 was the cat's meow for thin stuff.  I was wrong.DDA52 personally showed me how to run 6010 on thin material.  Actually had me doing it within minutes.  FAst circles, half the crater per oscillation.  Stack of dimes.We should have done some pics.  Was a great session.I gotta say, I've met some great mentors in the Pit.  Don, Mark8310, and others.  It's expanded my horizons, and made me want to do the best that I can do.  No more leaving things to chance.  Do it right, and you don't have to do it all over again.The best dudes are the ones that make you ask, and answer, the questions.I was pretty doggone good at what I do, now I'm learning to be better.FAst freeze rods, when controlled, are excellent.  Once you teach yourself the motions, it's just a matter of tweeking.  Amazed the daylights outta me"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:oh, and probably said somewhere in the thread...........6013 concentrates heat in the joint to the point of falling through.  Correct manipulation of the 6010 in a narrow bead, actually keeps the joint cool.  Fast freeze baby!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/