Hydrogen burner project.

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These are pics from the burner i made last night. Im trying to make a way to make hydrogen and burn it at its source. A car battery can make enough hydrogen gas to burn constantly without relights. Attached Images
Reply:will upload a picture of the element later. I cut it in half to make the anode and cathode. I used 1-1/4 in Copper and a brass bushing 1-1/4 x 1 in, at the tee i used 1/2 in copper and a copper swageloc so i could remove the tip if needed. The tip is a copper x PEX crimp connector. Attached Images
Reply:are you talking about hho?UA Local 598
Reply:kinda atm it is but later i am developing a mechanism for separating the oxygen out.
Reply:What is the purpose???? Your not a terrorist are you?
Reply:lol no just alternative energy enthusiast pretty much, solar wind and hydroelectric energy can be easily converted to hydrogen and used to heat homes or regenerated into ac electricity for other stuff.
Reply:why not just use a jewelers torch?tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:because this is one part (a burner of 3 or more) that will make up a boiler/furnace that heats your entire home, off of less than 50 volts DC. The idea of storing hydrogen is why nobody uses it for heat, if it is made on site its safer. On the other hand it may use less power a year than a traditional oil or gas heating system, let alone the cost of fuels like oil and natural gas/propane. And there is no carbon carrier, so no carbon emission, meaning i can vent it right into the air i breathe instead of through my very expensive chimney or power venter.Last edited by lozoot; 02-21-2011 at 05:04 PM.
Reply:you've got me interested. any links or schematics? id be interested in seeing where this goes.
Reply:so how much hydrogen is required for the BTU output you are looking for...for that matter, how much BTU output do you expect to make.  How much electrical energy are you supplying to the electrolysis process in order to reach that level of hydrogen output.  What anode and cathode materials are you using and what is their capable lifetime before replacement is required.  Also, are you performing room temp electolysis or high temp elecrolysis?  I would analyze your efficiency in doing this as electrolysis isn't a cheap process from an energy standpoint to get a high BTU output.  I would wonder if you're going to exceed the efficiency of a self contained electric furnace (really close to 100% since there's no flu or outlet, all the energy going into it is pretty much sent straight into the residence).--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:So far i have not learned very much with this burner, all i know is i got a consistent flame with 18 v and that is nothing comapred to what solar or wind is capable of.. The anode and cathode is a [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Water-Heater-Element-2000W-120V/dp/B001021KHE"]water heater element[/ame] with a hacksaw cut at the end
Reply:Originally Posted by lozootlol no just alternative energy enthusiast pretty much, solar wind and hydroelectric energy can be easily converted to hydrogen and used to heat homes or regenerated into ac electricity for other stuff.
Reply:electric home heating is one of the most expensive forms of heating.....Now if you have or can make a wind generator, (which is not that hard)  than you will be moving in the right direction....
Reply:exactly.  Electric heating with the electricity being applied directly to heating elements is already expensive.  Electric heating with an additional step of electrolysis and then heating after that via burning off hydrogen is going to be at least 1/3 more expensive (if not more like 2x as expensive or higher).--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:but you only need 18v to run this burner, and since it needs to be dc anyways there is no need to alternate the current and making 18 v is easy. Trust me i know the special circumstances on hho, yeah its bad to convert "grid" electricity to hydrogen. Turning free renewable energy into heat is my plan so whats the thoughts on that.hydrogen is fine for your uses in everyday things as long as carbon is attached to it, why does using hydrogen without carbon make you want to punch kittensalso with your pretty electric furnace, its expensive controls and fancy service guy it adds up.
Reply:Originally Posted by lozootbut you only need 18v to run this burner, and since it needs to be dc anyways there is no need to alternate the current and making 18 v is easy. Trust me i know the special circumstances on hho, yeah its bad to convert "grid" electricity to hydrogen. Turning free renewable energy into heat is my plan so whats the thoughts on that.hydrogen is fine for your uses in everyday things as long as carbon is attached to it, why does using hydrogen without carbon make you want to punch kittensalso with your pretty electric furnace, its expensive controls and fancy service guy it adds up.
Reply:Socoj2I don't know if you numbers are dead on,but your formulas are.I have also wanted to punch some puppy that would not stop with the HHO for cars propaganda.No one would do the math.So thanks for speaking up Without speaking down.Now if someone makes hydrogen with a non carbon,non-grid sourcethat sounds like a fun project.But also stop at a plating shopand ask how much current it takes to plate a small object. It takes voltage to break down the resistance of the water. But it takes current to produce volume.Let us know how it goes even if its negative.
Reply:Originally Posted by HyFrequencySocoj2I don't know if you numbers are dead on,but your formulas are.I have also wanted to punch some puppy that would not stop with the HHO for cars propaganda.No one would do the math.So thanks for speaking up Without speaking down.Now if someone makes hydrogen with a non carbon,non-grid sourcethat sounds like a fun project.But also stop at a plating shopand ask how much current it takes to plate a small object. It takes voltage to break down the resistance of the water. But it takes current to produce volume.Let us know how it goes even if its negative.
Reply:you could always do thermolysis...anyone have a stable natural source of heat at 2500*C where you can put a pressure vessel?  That'll get you Hydrogen without the electrical input... --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteyou could always do thermolysis...anyone have a stable natural source of heat at 2500*C where you can put a pressure vessel?  That'll get you Hydrogen without the electrical input... --Wintermute
Reply:Wind Power is the CLEANEST and the FREEST form of Energy that we'll likely ever know.  Being able to generate 'the perfect fuel' (arguably) with a byproduct that is pure water using a 'Free' means of electrical Generation (setup / maintenance aside of course..) sounds pretty good to me.  I would assume that wind Generated Hydrogen through 'electrolysis' is the ONLY way to do it without the huge associated expenses and efficiently storing Hydrogen is also probably not as 'difficult' when compared with the 'setup' you would need when trying to make use of it (which would obviously need to be addressed well ahead of time).I think some Countries would struggle for consistency when taking into consideration the frequency of wind throughout their Geographical location, combined with the population centers, etc..  I suppose the nice thing about turbines is that even when turning slowly, they are CONSTANTLY producing electricity so that is an added bonus.  We have some VERY productive wind farms here, but they are also INCREDIBLY loud and you certainly don't want to live near a 'good-sized' turbine prop.Cheers,Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:wheres Tesla when you need him..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by jmanWind Power is the CLEANEST and the FREEST form of Energy that we'll likely ever know.  Being able to generate 'the perfect fuel' (arguably) with a byproduct that is pure water using a 'Free' means of electrical Generation (setup / maintenance aside of course..) sounds pretty good to me.  I would assume that wind Generated Hydrogen through 'electrolysis' is the ONLY way to do it without the huge associated expenses and efficiently storing Hydrogen is also probably not as 'difficult' when compared with the 'setup' you would need when trying to make use of it (which would obviously need to be addressed well ahead of time).I think some Countries would struggle for consistency when taking into consideration the frequency of wind throughout their Geographical location, combined with the population centers, etc..  I suppose the nice thing about turbines is that even when turning slowly, they are CONSTANTLY producing electricity so that is an added bonus.  We have some VERY productive wind farms here, but they are also INCREDIBLY loud and you certainly don't want to live near a 'good-sized' turbine prop.Cheers,
Reply:You'd be better off applying your wind generated electricity directly to some heating elements that have been modified to work on lower voltage (cut the element shorter and shorter until it draws the current you want).Around here cooling costs are more than heating costs.  I've considered a wind powered A/C compressor.  How do you seal all the moving parts to avoid leaking refrigerant?  I have a feeling there isn't enough power in the wind for this until you get into the large sizes (30ft blades, 200ft towers).  At that point you'd never save enough electricity to pay back the cost of the install.  Another option is solar concentrators to power an ammonia absorption refrigerator (see the propane powered fridges they use in RVs).  Again the install costs probably outweight the return.  I haven't gotten any farther than the "hey that's a cool idea" stage of planning.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:So what are you all saying? Just throw it in the garabage and stop posting articles on this topic because it doesnt work...Originally Posted by lozootSo what are you all saying? Just throw it in the garabage and stop posting articles on this topic because it doesnt work...
Reply:Everytime this HHO stuff comes up it makes me want to punch kittens.
Reply:Originally Posted by socoj2Everytime this HHO stuff comes up it makes me want to punch kittens.
Reply:Originally Posted by lozootSo what are you all saying? Just throw it in the garabage and stop posting articles on this topic because it doesnt work...
Reply:Originally Posted by kenklingermanLMAO, you are not kidding!
Reply:Originally Posted by socoj2When you have electric available its pointless to make hydrogen. Hydrogen has a Density problem. Here is a nifty question for you.Which contains more hydrogen.A gallon of liquid hydrogenora gallon of gasoline.Hint: its NOT the liquid hydrogen.People should be working on a platinum free fuel cell method of increasing hydrogen density. If we can ever get the storage of hydrogen down.If this gets worked out, buy stock in chicken farms, because Methane collection is going to be HUGE! As Steam Reforming is vastly more efficient than electrolysis.
Reply:Originally Posted by cnywelderIt's not that it doesn't work, it's that it's a waste of time because there's a simpler solution:Use the electricity to heat up a regular old heating element.What you're trying to do simply isn't as efficient as a heat element while at the same time have the bonus of being complicated and possibly dangerous.They only advantage to hydrogen, would be if you could store the hydrogen AND do so more efficiently that storing the energy in batteries, or selling it into the grid and buying it back when you need it.
Reply:Originally Posted by lozootisnt another advantage that you can seal the combustion in an occupied space (ie not sending the combustion products up a chimney).On the other hand what about carbon caps and taxing carbon. Obama is trying to bring down the carbon based economy for "green" purposes, what about the extra money for the taxes, among the hundred other taxes on stuff made outside of your homes (ie gasoline, gas well drill bits).
Reply:Originally Posted by lozootisnt another advantage that you can seal the combustion in an occupied space (ie not sending the combustion products up a chimney).On the other hand what about carbon caps and taxing carbon. Obama is trying to bring down the carbon based economy for "green" purposes, what about the extra money for the taxes, among the hundred other taxes on stuff made outside of your homes (ie gasoline, gas well drill bits).
Reply:Originally Posted by socoj2Hydrogen has a Density problem. People should be working on a platinum free fuel cell method of increasing hydrogen density. If we can ever get the storage of hydrogen down.
Reply:Ain't no free lunch   Now gas prices are going nuts again......