Aluminum argon vs helium, vs mix?

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I have always welded aluminum with argon. I know helium allows for better penetration which would be nice. I am running my Tig on a 50 amp breaker right now and it can get taxed pretty easy with aluminum. Helium is more expensive though right? Is it worth the cost? Is a mix a good choice? What do you prefer?Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:Never used strait helium myself. I've used strait argon, and I've used %75/25 helium/argon mix. For thinner stuff strait argon is ok. But on thicker stuff that mixed gas makes a world of difference. I don't know the costs (the shop buys it) but it's worth it. Saves alot of agrivation and sitting there waiting for the metal to melt. Befor I started at the shop they were using strait argon on some parts. They would have one guy heating the parts with a rosebud, then put them on a hot plate to keep them warm untill the next guy could weld them. Once they switched to the mixed gas it became a one man operation. No more rosebud, no more hot plate.
Reply:Originally Posted by Grimm1 I don't know the costs but it's worth it.
Reply:Didn't think about it untill I hit the button. Made me chuckle too.
Reply:The only real bummer to straight helium is the arc is harder to maintain. A mix with just 10% helium gets a lot better penetration. There are ready made mixed bottles out there; not from my supplier, but there are members who get them. I have a mixer, and do it that way. I use a little 40cu. bottle of helium and add it when I really need it. 5/16" aluminum with a mix is no problem at 200 amps. It is expensive for what you get, but it does improve the penetration. Look to the torch getting hot, even with water cooling.Last edited by Rojodiablo; 01-15-2010 at 10:36 AM.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThe only real bummer to straight helium is the arc is harder to maintain. A mix with just 10% helium gets a lot better penetration. There are ready made mixed bottles out there; not from my supplier, but there are members who get them. I have a mixer, and do it that way. I use a little 40cu. bottle of helium and add it when I really need it.
Reply:Originally Posted by yoshimitsuspeedI have always welded aluminum with argon. I know helium allows for better penetration which would be nice. I am running my Tig on a 50 amp breaker right now and it can get taxed pretty easy with aluminum. Helium is more expensive though right? Is it worth the cost? Is a mix a good choice? What do you prefer?
Reply:Lol well considering that 50 amp breaker only lets me run about 50% amperage I think I have some options before buying a new machine. No 3 phase either. Most of what I do is under 1/4" and it works great. 1/4 might need a little pre heat. the one that tripped me up a little is an intake manifold I am making. Welding the 1/2" flange to the tubing took all I had and popped the circuit a number of times. The TB flange went pretty easy since it's smaller and less of a heat sinkAnyway since it's only small bits here and there the idea of a small helium bottle seems to make a lot of sense and I think it would last a very long time.I am also going to see if my electrician thinks I could jump up to a 60 amp breaker. I think between that and helium I should be able to easily do anything I foresee myself needing to do for a good while. Originally Posted by dave powelson1-What size, thickness, of alum. stuff are you describing?2-Alternative:If you're really considering the considerable expense of helium-argon mix, or the expenseof preheating, consider using a high end, square wave inverter, one that is 3 phase, 300 amps+ rating----if you've got 3 phase available. (While these may run on single phase--you're notgetting the real benefit of the machine's capability.)The AC frequency can be varied, vs. being stuck at 60 cycles.On mine (T-D 300GTSW), at min. of 20 cycles/sec. AC, fully unbalanced---I can get wetting and fusion, within 2 seconds-tops. on thick (3/4") sections, 200 amps max. output.--On occasion and that's very rarely, I may warm up a big heavy item.(Most of the current, when fully unbalanced, is going thru the ground--not the torch.The sharp point on the tungsten, plus the ability to vary the AC frequency of the current,lets you focus the arc, for greater heat concentration--much more than a 'standard' machine.)-compared to a single phase, transformer or low end inverter machine, the abovecan quickly pay for itself in power, consumable gas and labor time.
Reply:Helium is great for Tig Welding Overhead. Thats the only time I use it."SCHIRRA~#16"[email protected]
Reply:Argon is a "Cold" gas..Helium is a "Hot" gas..However Helium is only used with DC Straight when welding Aluminum and 5356 filler is the ONLY choice when going that route...It works but forget about the "Stack Of Dimes" look to the weld..Mixing the 2 gasses is like adding 30-50 amps to the machine over using straight Argon for shielding without needing to turn the knob higher..You will get more heat with a mix than straight Argon..But 75-25 mix is more Helium than Argon so your welds will have that "Dirty" look to them over straight Argon..I have a mixer and run about 38% Argon and still get the shiney look rather than the dirty look and still have that extra heat...That's our lesson for today about Helium VS. Argon.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Thanks Zap.So running a partial mix you can get the clean stack of dimes look right?Anyone have recommendations on a mixer?Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBut 75-25 mix is more Helium than Argon so your welds will have that "Dirty" look to them over straight Argon.....zap!
Reply:It is readily available so it is the "Universal" way to go but if you were ever to get a mixer and do your own thing..MAJOR difference......zap!Last edited by zapster; 01-16-2010 at 10:51 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by yoshimitsuspeedThanks Zap.So running a partial mix you can get the clean stack of dimes look right?Anyone have recommendations on a mixer?
Reply:Couldn't you just put head flanges and smaller flanges in the oven for a little bit?Preheat them. Just make sure you're 100% ready to weld them when you take them out.
Reply:Originally Posted by driftstarCouldn't you just put head flanges and smaller flanges in the oven for a little bit?Preheat them. Just make sure you're 100% ready to weld them when you take them out.
Reply:As stated in other threads here, thermal conductivity of He is about 9 X that of Ar, and for a given current and arc length the arc voltage is several volts higher than Ar, so there is more power in the arc since amps x volts = watts, and more heat transfered to the puddle by the conductivity of the gas.Helium does make arc starting difficult because of the high ionization potential, but it can be used for TIG welding of any metals that are TIG welded.  We commonly TIG weld stainless steel, and other alloys in a 100% He glovebox atmosphere, so the welded container is filled with helium and we can simply leak test it.Helium would give a huge boost of power to your aluminum weld, even on AC.  For heavy aluminum it is common to use helium and DCEN.