So confused

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What have I gotten myself into.  I always wanted to weld and I am afraid of taking to many cheap baby steps only to realize I need bigger and better.   Here is my problem, I want to make around a 6x12 trailer to haul about 4000lbs at the most.  I am not sure if I need a Stick or larger MIG than I already have.   I am not even sure if I need to think in 1/4" or not for something like this.  My original idea was to be able to get a good weld in 1/4" and down and that should be all I would ever need.  I like building brackets and jigs to make life easier but nothing that should ever exceed 1/4".   I currently own a Lincoln ProPak 100 MIG and I like it but I have the opportunity to sell it and get a 220v 220A HTP MIG (limited to .035 solid wire).  Is this enough to do what I want or do I get a Lincoln 220 AC/DC or Hobart Stickmate LX (same power) and use that while keeping my 120v MIG for smaller items.  TIG is nice but TIG is out of the price range. I can get a used Lincoln for $150, the used Hobart is around $300.00 and the HTP MIG is $300.00 OBO.   If I new the HTP would do the job I would get it and try to learn it well.  I guess I could always learn how to use my torches to weld as well but that produces so much heat and consumes a lot of gas for a large project like a trailer (for me).Miller Maxstar 172 TIG (3ph)) converted to Maxstar 152 TIG (1ph), Harris & Victor Oxy/Act, Lincoln WeldPak Pro100, Radioshack 15w Soldering Iron but I want MORE and my wife says
Reply:By the way ... in terms of the ability to weld the same maximum thickness of metal, does a 165A TIG equal a 225A stick welder or are their abilities only equal in the end by the amperage output?   I have seen some 165A TIGs claiming 1/4" is no problem yet it seems that 225A in Stick is barely enough to do 1/4".Miller Maxstar 172 TIG (3ph)) converted to Maxstar 152 TIG (1ph), Harris & Victor Oxy/Act, Lincoln WeldPak Pro100, Radioshack 15w Soldering Iron but I want MORE and my wife says
Reply:Building an over the road vehicle will take a lot of welding skill not just proper tools. Can you weld joints with complete penetration? A trailer coming apart at 50 or 60 mph will most likely kill someone.
Reply:The HTP MiniMig is a good price for 300.00 and far superior to the 120v LincolnEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Just so you can get the amp-vs-muscle-vs-process concept under control, not all amps are equal. The amp output of any particular machine can be used as a quick and ruff guide as to its capabilites, yes, but that's not an exact definitive. Heat input into a weldment is really rated in joules but we can get by using watts for this purpose. A DC stick welder at 125 amps might be around 40 volts (just numbers) for a wattage of 5000. A Mig with a particular wire might be 17 volts and the same 125 amps for 2125 watts so, no, two different processes at a given amperage may not be equal in all ways. Then there is the DC+/DC-/AC thing as well as some other things. But in my humble hobby opinion don't get too hung up on all that. That's all brain candy. I think you need a good brand name 187 amp to 220 amp MIG and learn to weld with that. That's gonna push you beyond your $300.00 limit by a bunch but don't see you wrestling with less and being happy with it. If the budget rules then a decent 225 amp stick and keep the little lincoln mig would work great too. I could be okay with either, just happier with a bigger mig.
Reply:Well, I just called the HTP MIG guy and it sold.  The AC/DC Lincoln sold.  So now I can think about the Hobart Stick only because I feel it would be a better product than the Lincoln Stick but who's to say.   The Hobart sounds like it has newer technology for starting the arc and keeping it going.  Never thought I would buy a stick.  Sandy ... thanks for the advice.  Still gotta learn.   I just do not want to keep buying the wrong item.  I am okay with the small Lincoln.  Good around the house, fix the lawnmower deck, add a body patch panel ... etc but I want something thats 220v to tackle 1/4".  I will keep looking and thanks!Miller Maxstar 172 TIG (3ph)) converted to Maxstar 152 TIG (1ph), Harris & Victor Oxy/Act, Lincoln WeldPak Pro100, Radioshack 15w Soldering Iron but I want MORE and my wife says
Reply:Accent,I have been using a Lincoln 180 mig and just bought a used Hobart Stickmate LX ($200 off craigslist, delivered to my house and demo'd).   Even when limited to 160A using DC, that stick machine can put far more heat into the joint than my 180A Mig.  More than enough for 1/4".   At that thickness you need to bevel and gap the pieces and if you really want penetration, run a first pass with 6010/6011 and follow up with 7014/7018.  I am really enjoying learning with the stick machine since there is a lot more finesse to it.Last edited by frieed; 01-09-2010 at 05:16 PM.MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"
Reply:Keep your eyes open and you will find a nice 220v mig. Most likely that will be the easiest for you to work with. You will end up spending more than the stick machine.The stick machine has plenty of power, but you will have to learn a whole new method of welding. Out of position stick is much more difficult to learn than mig for most. One minor note, usually most tig machines will also allow you to do stick as well as tig, since both are a constant current process. There are a few exceptions. like Millers Diversion. That means you get both a tig and stick machine for the same price, but you may have to get the stick leads to use stick. Most AC/DC transformer stick machines, like Miller's Thunderbolt, Hobart's Stickmate, and Lincoln's tombstones, are basically the same on the inside. There's usually no electronics, just a big transformer.The big thing to remember is that regardless of whether you use mig or stick, you absolutely must have good quality welds on a trailer. I'd suggest you use the process that you do best, and practice that until every weld, in every position, is perfect every time. I think I may have mentioned this to you before. A trailer is not a beginner/learning project. The questions you are asking are beginner/learning questions. You may expect to have to wait a fair while before you will be ready to even attempt to build your trailer..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Might be a good idea to hold off on building a trailer for a while.
Reply:The machine is only a small part of welding . The person behind the machine is the larger part.I have seen all kinds of trailers, built that I would not pull around the block, where guys go's out and buy a 110 squirt gun and say I'm a welder. Not sure of your skills. At least a brand name 220 volt mig is needed for this project. A stick welder will work but is a much slower process and most people find stick welding more difficult. Welding is not learned in a 30 hour course at a vocational school. A welder is made with years of on the job experience.Miller 330 A/BP Bernard SS coolerMiller cst 250Miller Big Blue 251DCentury 210 Mig (first welder I bought)Hypertherm PowerMax 800Victor torch setRu Fong 31 MilAtlas lathe
Reply:Thanks for the advice.  I am not someone to quickly go out and slap a trailer together without the proper knowledge but I am trying to get the advice so when the time comes I will have the not too much and not too little welder to do the job.  Sadly missing the HTP 220A MIG welder bugs me as the price was really nice but then I think about how I really only need a powerful stick for the strongest welds and the MIG I have may suffice for the lighter welds.   I realize that most lesser priced welders may also not be able to deliver consistent power to the wire when compared to the bigger units otherwise there would not be such a significant price in brands of equal power.   Now there are the debates of for example a Hobart Stickmate LX  at around $500 - $600 versus a Lincoln Tombstone welder at Lowes for less than $300.00.   Am I going to make the same weld quality with both?   Would one really have a better start up strike than the other?  I prefer to get one that will be the last one I should ever need.  Don't get me wrong, a TIG/Stick would be great but not affordable at this time. And again ... don't worry ... I am a stickler for the safety of my family and others so what ever I do will be done right.Miller Maxstar 172 TIG (3ph)) converted to Maxstar 152 TIG (1ph), Harris & Victor Oxy/Act, Lincoln WeldPak Pro100, Radioshack 15w Soldering Iron but I want MORE and my wife says
Reply:That Hobart Stickmate is probably an AC/DC stick machine. I think you can get it cheaper at Northern tools for like $420 or so. The Lincoln is an AC only machine. You can find those often on CL for $50-150 in good shape. There's not much on either of those machines that can go bad. They are old transformer based machines, and are pretty bullet proof.I'd suggest the AC/DC machine over the AC only one. You get a wider variety of rods to use with DC and even rods that will run on AC usually run smoother on DC. There's been any number of threads on ACvs DC machines. Here's one that was started not that long ago.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=36868.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I agree, too, with 7A7 and DSW, that if you are looking at getting a stick welder... go with an AC/DC machine. Note that on the Lincoln tombstone welders, there are two that are sold. One is AC only and the other is AC/DC. Just to point this out to you.Rodney                                   The blessing of the Lord makes one rich, And He adds no sorrow with it.'  Proverbs 10:22 NKJV
Reply:Ive barked up this tree too bro and got similar anwsers. Trailers + Newbies = Nothing good.as far as amps and muscle, my 120v 140A mig tends to blow holes through 1/8" and 3/16" steel if turned up too high.  1/4" is her max but if i prep it right, the weld id visible on the back side on the 1st pass.  3/8" steel though....  forget it. lol      I got my second 2lb .035 flux spool the other day from a LWS instead of the local hardwar place and fell in love with it.  $3 cheaper, much beter penetration and barely leaves me any slag to get rid of.   ahh the joys of good wire!Realgear 140 MIGMore DeWalt tools that I prolly needDIY 160 amp 40 OCV MOT Stick Welder
Reply:Hi ya accentphotography!! If you have never build an on the road trailer before I would highly recommend getting some good welding lessons first. Designing, fabricating and welding a road trailer takes some experience.Then of course there are the Federal, state, and local requirements that must be complied with before you'll be able to register that trailer. There have been MANY threads and posts about building trailers. try a key word  search "Trailers" here at Welding Web.I did not see what state you are from! You should be able to go to your  state  Dept of Motor Vehicles and see what the requirements are for building, inspection, and registering your trailer.if interested in putting your location on your post instead of answering every one's request where you are located trymiddle left corner of screen click on USER CP, Your Control Panel, Edit your Details, then Additional Information    there you can add you location as well as other info you might want to share.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:The Lincoln Tombstones are very capable machines for stick.  I taught myself to weld with an old AC 225 years ago.  They will burn a 3/32 7018 rod very nicely...and you can basically weld unlimited thickness with a 3/32 7018 with multiple passes.  The AC machine will run 6011 well too.If you got the AC/DC Tombstone, which I would recommend,  you could run a scratch start tig off it too.  Just get a WP17V Tig Torch, a regulator, a power cable connector to clip your stinger to, and an argon bottle.Good machines to learn on.  3/32 7018 is a very versatile and controllable rod for flat and out of position and good to learn with, much easier that 1/8 or larger in my opinion, and you can weld practically anything with it.
Reply:Thanks bagofdimes and everyone else.  Sadly the AC/DC Lincoln sold as well and I am left with AC Lincolns and the Hobart.  Scratch starting a tig ...  hmm .. interesting.  I will slow down and practice and study.   Thanks for the advice.   Great ForumMiller Maxstar 172 TIG (3ph)) converted to Maxstar 152 TIG (1ph), Harris & Victor Oxy/Act, Lincoln WeldPak Pro100, Radioshack 15w Soldering Iron but I want MORE and my wife says
Reply:You have all the welding advice you need. Now you need to settle on a machine that you really want, to start with, then get one! Check those classifieds and fleebay and the like. A used machine in the shop is worth two new ones in the catalog!  I could afford a used 250 amp mig a lot sooner than I could a new one, but I had to know what I wanted, if only to get me started. Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I was looking at a MM250 on CL tonight for $700-750 IIRC. I debated for a bit if it was worth picking it up and stepping up from my 200 amp machine to a 250amp one and then trying to see what I could get for my current machine. If I had gotten the money in from plowing already, I'd have jumped on the deal. With the credit card due at the end of the week, it's a bit too close for me to gamble on, for a machine I don't absolutely have to have right now.Keep your eyes open, keep cash on hand, and when the right deal comes, go for it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yep, I want a 250 amp unit or priced right a 300 amp but that is another year away.  I got to pay all of those 2009 bills first.   Darn economy ... I need some business (photography that is).Miller Maxstar 172 TIG (3ph)) converted to Maxstar 152 TIG (1ph), Harris & Victor Oxy/Act, Lincoln WeldPak Pro100, Radioshack 15w Soldering Iron but I want MORE and my wife says