Best ways / tools to weld thin sheet metal

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Hello folks, complete newbie here.I would like to buy a welder that is capable of welding thin sheet metal (motorcycle fenders, tanks, etc).Problem is that I don't know what type of welder would be best for the job and I am on a very tight budget.I found this cheap no-gas welder.It only costs 100 British pounds (about 175 US dollars).Is a gasless welder any good for welding thin sheet metal?Or should I start looking for another type of welder that is more suitable for thin sheet metal?I really need recommendations for a cheap-o-welder, guys.One last thing that I believe is important to note here: I live in Europe.Over here we use 220V instead of 110V, so I guess most USA brands will not be OK for use in my country.Not to mention that it is very expensive to import goods from the USA - the VAT will literally kill me.Thanks in advance for all your help!  _Last edited by KidWeld; 02-17-2010 at 12:21 AM.
Reply:I would consider a small oxy-acetylene torch. Uses no electric power, cuts, bends, welds, brazes, solders. Yeah. The small fluxcore machines are price-point items that pose some, how shall I say, challenges in adaptability.Welcome to the weld shop. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Since the machine you posted the picture of says TIG on its side, I assume it is supposed to have that capability. BTW, TIG uses constant current, Mig uses constant voltage usually, so I'm surprised to see both there. Then again, high-freq technology allows more than the old transformers.  In any case, for TIG it would need to use an inert gas, and you would need to look carefully at its specifications (starting options, stepped vs. variable current control, min. and max current, gas control solenoid, etc.)  to see what they are supposed to be, then really would need an opinion from some qualified user of the machine to know if it actually does as advertised. Is that machine made by a good company or just a 'cheap' import from who-knows-where?If oxy-acetylene is an option, I agree it is a good place to start. It has the capability for all you might need and will develop your skills well too.Last edited by Oldiron2; 02-17-2010 at 01:57 AM.
Reply:Hi Kidweld.I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination.  I can weld, but not a professional.  I am a commercial pilot.  I do have a MIG (175SP by Lincoln)  I have used both gas (solid wire), and gasless (flux core wire).  In my opinion, you will not have very good success with flux core wire on sheet metal.  It possibly can be done, but it will be a struggle.  Most of the flux core that I have used was very dirty and had high penetration.  Remember that I am not a professional welder.I feel that for a person on a budget, that you may be better off with an Oxy-Acetelyne torch setup.  A TIG system would certainly do what you desire (I have a Miller Dynasty 200DX that I am learning to use).  HOWEVER, the sticker shock (cost) may just put you in a hospital.   Even an entry level TIG that has only DC (for Steel only==no Aluminum) will start around $1000-$1500 US.  There are cheaper units available; however, on the forums that I participate in regularly, one rarely reads good reviews about the ultracheap units.I am not attempting to burst your bubble, or discourage you, I am just hoping to provoke some additional thought.  I wish you the best of luck in your quest.Jerry in Anchorage, Alaska
Reply:that welder does not show a gas hose or regulator, so id say it is set for fluxcore, not mig,,definitely ng for sheet metal..also a  migtig combo as stated is an expensive one..walk away from this machine.get  an oxyacetylene  outfit...for a bit more than the welder shown you should get some good used equipment and have what you need for what you want to do.,.best luck
Reply:ps  i looked a little harder at the foto of the red welder..it looks like the leads..power, work  clamp, and the wiredfeeding gun..are all permanently connected tothe machine..so noway to change the gun out for a tig torch,,it seems like strictly a fluxcore wirefeeder..
Reply:Maybe that "MIGTIG" on the side is just the 'brand name',  doesn't have anything to do with its abilities, and is just there to confuse the buyer.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2Maybe that "MIGTIG" on the side is just the 'brand name',  doesn't have anything to do with its abilities, and is just there to confuse the buyer.
Reply:What about safety?There was this guy in my town that got his head chopped off by an exploding oxy acetylene bottle. The upper part of the bottle hit him in the neck and beheaded him.
Reply:I think I found a solution.I will use brazing instead of welding.Brazing seems to be an easy and cheap alternative.Can i do brazing with a regular propane torch?
Reply:For extremely small parts when using copper based filler alloys, possibly; for larger partsa or sheet metal, only if you use silver 'solder' alloys which melt at lower temperatures than brass/bronze. The lower heat input/longer heating time of propane compared to an oxy-acetylene flame can cause more problems with distortion of sheet metal projects.
Reply:I saw hand torches that use gas containers with MAPP gas.MAPP burns at higher tems than Propane.For this particular burner, the tep is 2200 degrees Celsius.Would this burner be OK for use with hard solder on steel sheet metal?
Reply:The difference between Propane and Mapp in those torches isn't that great; I have a Bernzomatic Mapp torch sorta like that on the workbench which I use nearly every day for heating things, but it isn't capable of most of the brazing/soldering I do. Depending on the solder, it will work for very small things but won't replace the need for a 'real' torch if you do more than make jewelry.
Reply:Most all bike builders use tig for all the welding needs. I believe it stands up much better tot he vibration that happen on bikes.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamlitMost all bike builders use tig for all the welding needs. I believe it stands up much better tot he vibration that happen on bikes.
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860Not really, lots of O/A welding is done in the custom motorcycle world, and technically it can be a BETTER process for fatigue on some materials. You see lots of brazing on older motorcycle designs. I for one would head towards real O/A welding and brazing, and skip the plumbers torch.
Reply:From what I understand, brazing has one big advantage over oxy acetylene welding: and this advantage is that brazing does not require a complicated and expensive setup because you don't really need too high temperatures.All you have to do is heat the parts to be joined (in the case of steel to red color) and then melt and apply the softer filler inbetween them.So, I wonder why do people use oxy-acetylene setups for brazing?If you already have an O/A apparatus that is capable of welding the parts, then why don't you just weld them instead of braze them?Welds are stronger, aren't they?_
Reply:Originally Posted by KidWeldFrom what I understand, brazing has one big advantage over oxy acetylene welding: and this advantage is that brazing does not require a complicated and expensive setup because you don't really need too high temperatures.All you have to do is heat the parts to be joined (in the case of steel to red color) and then melt and apply the softer filler inbetween them.So, I wonder why do people use oxy-acetylene setups for brazing?If you already have an O/A apparatus that is capable of welding the parts, then why don't you just weld them instead of braze them?Welds are stronger, aren't they?_
Reply:OK, now I am convinced that I need an Oxygen-Acetylene setup.I think I will get a small O/A kit.Something like this one (it uses a disposable gas container instead of a rechargeable bottle): http://www.belkrafting.com/img/texts...5735-11301.jpgCan I weld thick stuff with such a tool?Or is it only good for welding sheet metal?_