Building mobile rig, beginner, hire journeyman?

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Hello,Haven't really made any posts here but have a general question.I am looking to set my truck up for welding (Super Duty Diesel). I am a second year apprentice and am looking to learn the pipelines here in Canada (BC and Alberta). Once I set my rig up, I do not expect to get hired due to lack of experience. I have an idea of hiring/partnering a journeyman welder who will apprentice me while using my equipment/teach me the ins n' outs of the business.Does anyone have any thoughts about this plan? I will be building a rig regardless, its just a matter of using it sooner than later.Any insight would be great.
Reply:Sounds like  a recipe for disaster to me.I know  several people who run a successful business, yet can't do the work. However they are very knowledgeable about the business in general and are capable of making knowledgeable decisions while running the business. It doesn't sound like you can. So you are fronting up money to set up a rig, then going to hire someone to run it with you, but you probably don't have the experience to pick a good partner/employee from a bad one...Personally it sounds like a recipe for going broke fast, or for getting taken to the cleaners if the business doesn't crash and burn right away.There's a lot more to running a business than simply having the tools and the skills. I know quite a few guys who tried to go it on their own only to have their businesses fail. It's not that they didn't have the funds or the equipment. It's not that they couldn't do the work. It's because they couldn't manage and run the business. To be successful, you sort of need all three. I see you lacking in at least 2 out of the three areas. This might work IF, and it's a big if, you really knew and trusted the 2nd person. If you were going into business with a family member, or long time friend, I might see this working possibly. Just hiring someone "blind", unless you and your family have lived and worked this for years, I can't see you having the business savvy to pull this off with limited knowledge..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I run a business right now, just not my own. Totally different field but I'm tired of my schooling and effort going to waste while no one is willing to hire me on as a helper or apprentice. I figured I might have better luck if there was someone with the skills and hours that didn't necessarily have a mobile business.I'm not asking said welder to take my rig and go weld. I'd be right with him/her and I'm not exactly someone who is easily taken advantage of. I'd of course seek a friend first (I have a few) but since I've never been given a chance, I might be inclined to team up with a stranger as well. I figured it would be no different than someone hiring me as a helper (ex: I could swindle a journeyman with a rig just as easy as the other way around whether its stealing or what not)I appreciate your honesty as I was asking for it. Just getting fed up with flaky jobs not going through.
Reply:Looking at this idea from a different angle...You want the experiance person to be able to get the work and take you along as the trainee, but in actual fact you'll be his boss??I don't think your going to get any experiance welder to do that with you mainly being because they may not want to "Carry You" whislt they are workingYour best bet would be to go and work for a company whilst your training, and that will give you better experiance and a better chance of learning, you need to practice and to do it continuously.by all means get your rig built if it makes you feel better and go to work in it but you might just want to save your $$$$'s until you feel confident enough and then set it out for how you want it dependant on what your doing and what equipment you need.No point in running before you can walk Good Luck with whatever you decide
Reply:I suppose it may have been a silly idea.However, someone who is a welder helper in Alberta is usually an apprentice. I'm not looking at being "someones" boss, just more of a mutual working partnership. I get the experience, they get the use of a rig. But yeah, probably not such a good idea, jsut thought I'd kick the idea around and see what experienced people though.
Reply:No worries, It sounds like your really keen which in itself is a good idea, but the secret to any successful business has to be knowledge and the more you learn how other compaies work the more you'll benefit, and it will help you in the long run. Then when your qualified and have a few years decent experiance you can set off on your own and start earning just for you, as opposed to giving away a majority of your earnings to someone else, just so you get experiance.With a job not only do you get experiance but your getting paid too which means you can save for the day you set off on your own, The idea of a rig now with be totally different in a few years time when you have a few $$$ under your belt.Good Luck
Reply:Different industry, similar situation. I had a friend that was knowledgeable with tree work, I wanted to make some extra money. Idea was I would find work, he would supply the knowledge and I would be his helper. The problem was we each had different ideas about how much $$$ each of our skills contributed. We started with a 60/40 split in his favor. I was content in the beginning as I had little to bring to the table. As I learned more, or found jobs that didn't require his knowledge, I had a real problem giving him the larger share of a job. His opinion was I wasn't worth a 50/50 partner until I could do everything myself.  Long story short, he has his business, I had mine. When needed we would help each other out as contract labor, meaning we would agree on a daily rate for our efforts and whatever was made above that was the others profit.I've heard the only way a partnership can work is if each bring separate, but equally important skills to the business. Personally, I think the only way a partnership can work is if the money stays in the same house.Good luck with whatever you do.
Reply:Sounds like u r trying to justify spending a bunch of money for new welding "toys".   Here is an idea.   Hoe bout a welding truck leasing business?   Outfit trucks and rent them by the month.  Then journeymen can rent them only when they have work.  Offer "welder helpers". Along with the trucks and develop a list of apprentice weldors of which u could be one.    Charge more for a truck with helper than just an equipped truck..    u may even be able to rent them to bigger welding companies when they get big jobs...  Oh I get a paid a commission for the idea tooTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by jaggermouthHello,Haven't really made any posts here but have a general question.I am looking to set my truck up for welding (Super Duty Diesel). I am a second year apprentice and am looking to learn the pipelines here in Canada (BC and Alberta). Once I set my rig up, I do not expect to get hired due to lack of experience. I have an idea of hiring/partnering a journeyman welder who will apprentice me while using my equipment/teach me the ins n' outs of the business.Does anyone have any thoughts about this plan? I will be building a rig regardless, its just a matter of using it sooner than later.Any insight would be great.
Reply:Alberta is one of the few provinces that has a complete apprenticeship program for welders.  The big Catch 22 is that employers don't want to bother with apprentices.     The fact that you have an apprenticeship going is great.  Make a concerted effort to connect with your workmates.  That includes other apprentices and some of those old crusty sob's.  You don't have to be their sweetheart but exchange phone numbers and keep in touch.  When you hear of work pass the info around and the same thing will start happening back to you.  You have another two years to listen to all the gossip at lunch time and at the bar after work.   You can save yourself a lot of heartbreak knowing which shops are bad and which are good, how to get into the local boilermakers or pipeing unions, and how not to lose your money to foolish endeavours like drugs, too much alcohol, and diseases.  There is more to learn than just the trade.
Reply:Nothing wrong with being innovative, could work, just have to find someone who is very competent and willing to accept the situation. Most good hands have there own rigs.  Also if you have breakdowns remember that will be on you to get it up and running, both time and expense. If a guy is making his living using your rig he won't be dropping his green in it when it breaks, and he won't stick aroung waiting for you to get it up and running if it is much more than a day cause he isn't getting paid if he can't make sparks. As a helper can you afford to run a rig and do you have enough back up green if it goes out.  Not meaning to discourage you but have you thought of that angle?"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Try working your way up without spending money upfront. If you have the money now, resist the urge to squander it and concentrate on your career instead. Save your money, stash more of it, and when you KNOW what WILL work for you it won't be an "expensive experiment".People treat equipment they don't own as expendable. Build a rig, work on the side with that rig, and accumulate equipment and experience.
Reply:It could work but there are many potiential pitfalls as mentioned, another way to look at it would be to partner up someone from out of province that will fly in to work and fly home when the jobs done, they just need to show up with a lid.  There are tons of guys from the east coast doing just that.Briggs weldnpower 225/210/cvLn-25 suitcaseMillermatic 130
Reply:I would strongly discourage any partnership.  Probably most of the failures and/or disasters in small businesses come from partnerships.  They usually start out great, but eventually dissention sets in.  It can be from each other, family, co-workers, backers (if any), etc.  Either get your experience with a company, large or small, or try it going alone...the latter is REALLY risky without experience and funds to back you until you establish yourself.Jus' my 2 cents worth....been there.
Reply:Partner was not intended to mean partnership, poor choice of wording.  It would have to be a employer employe relationship.Briggs weldnpower 225/210/cvLn-25 suitcaseMillermatic 130
Reply:My suggestion.Why would you want to pay a guy 40$ - 50$ an hour just to learn from him when you could rig up and learn as you go for your self. Forget the Journeymen. If your serious about getting into business then buy your self a great set of welding books that you can reference back too when you run into questions.One great book that I would recommend to any welder. The Welding Encyclopedia by Tim B Jefferson. Practice for your CWB tickets if you don't already have them and get your hand into welding anything structural. Iv seen 2nd year welders on pipelines welding pile caps for 90$ and hour. Sure you make mistakes. that what a grinder is for. Running your own truck is a lot of work. make sure your incorporated, your well insured, hire a knowledgeable accountant and it is a good idea to have a lawyer at hand. Once your business is up and running, you have your CWB certifications and a quality resume, you shouldn't have issues getting into a mod yard or pipeline with your rig. Now I know you are asking about pipeline experience.  well as for that.. it will come. but as a pipeline helper, grinding all day and being an gofer vs welding all day with 7018 will give you an understand that you will never get by watching.  Finish your apprenticeship and during the next year as your working towards your journeymen statues pick up some pipe or plate and practice your open roots. uphand and down and once its time to test for your Alberta B Pressure and because you had the opportunity to weld all day every day you will pass that so much easier then you would by being a helper. once you understand the puddle.. you will be able to weld anything. it all comes down to how much effort you put in.