Food Cart Project

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My wife and I have been running a food cart for over and year and a half and want to expand. I have two carts that I plan on building myself, partly to save money, partly because I want to. I'm looking at equipment to buy and want to ask the forum for their opinion.I'm trying to guestimate the cost of the welder vs. the cost of hiring the job out. I've attached a picture that is a rough sketch of what I'm looking at. To make it easier I'll just keep the questions clear...A. Ballpark, what would it cost me to farm the welding part of this out, I can cut the frame pieces myself.B. What equipment would I need at the minimum to complete this project.The basic equation is if 2A (cost to hire x 2, since there are two carts) is significantly less than 2B-V (whereas B is equipment and V is salvage value, ie, if I sell the equipment when I'm done) then I'll just forget all this and hire someone to weld the frame together for me.2A<2B-VAlso, I don't have in my shop, and can't wire without some trouble, 220v power. So I've been looking at 110v MIG welder options. The one that seems to deliver the best value, since it comes ready for gas is a Miller. The Miller 135, with a regulator, solenoid and fan, and a ten foot torch for about $700. Or I just go down to the local sears and pick up a Craftsman (Century/Lincoln) for less. Since I've seen on my own cart what a Harbor Freight machine does I'm just not interested in the very low end equipment.Thoughts? Attached Images
Reply:The devil will be in the details. Could you build this... possibly. A lot would depend on your skill set in fab work. I've seen a lot of guys who do wood working who would have no issues doing most of the fab work on this, with the possible exception of the welding. The key is they already have the fab skills in wood, they just have to change materials. Things like corner joint design, shelf attachment, outer skin attachment will all play a big part in this. A simple line drawing makes this look way to easy. Start doing a detailed construction drawing showing every little detail and you will see this is fairly complicated.I would not want someone bringing me a giant Erector set like this to try and assemble personally. I see way too many pieces that all have to end up in the right place, and with someone I'm not familiar with doing the cutting, how am I to know if part  27 is wrong, or if parts 15 and 19 I installed earlier were cut wrong? I'd want to do all the fab work, so I'd have complete control over the parts. I'd also want much better drawings than what I see. Is this all square tube, angle iron, or both? What materials? Steel is "easy", but switch to alum and things will change big time as alum is much harder to weld. Stainless would be a whole nother ball game to do and if you start combining things it get's even more complex..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would agree with DSW, for a fabricator that would be too many bits to even attempt to put together, the only way i would perhaps make something like this would be if i had detailed drawing and i just cut the pieces myself and made them up as i went along.If you have some welding experience then this would be a great project for you, Mig welding i would say is the easiest welding to learn, Get your welder and play around with some scraps for a few days, Look at You tube for videos, there are some great ones on there for mig welding.Lastly, Dont Rush!!, Take your time, make sure everything is square and true, Tack and check again before you weld, making sure you weld all round and keep it fixed down so it won't twist.
Reply:If this is your first project and u have no Tools  such as clamps sawhorses and a fab table, grinders, etc this will be a steep curve. I somewhat see if from the drawing. What are the doors out of ? How are they made ?i don't know what others would charge for it here, but I would be looking at least 60 hours to get this done. And no i would not want cut peaces, btw I often outsource my cutting to my steel supplier but only when I need the same peace over and over
Reply:I would recommend that u make a google sketch up drawing. You just need to get setup to do it and it will cost a bit.
Reply:Let's get some important details out of the way.What materials are acceptable in your city? Since you say food, I would assume stainless steel or possibly aluminum. SS is far more expensive to work with, not to mention the material cost. Alum is far easier to fabricate, but beyond your ability to weld.Carbon steel is out of the question, being food grade utility?Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:if you are planning on making this out of steel and can cut miters and weld things up square  i would say go for it if your skill level will allow you to do it . i don't recommend sawing the matl. and taking it somewhere you really won't save any money buy the time a welder/ fabricator drags all that stuff out of a box and tries to figure out what you are thinking buy that time he could of just sawed it himself and they will charge you for that time "that's if he would agree to do it ". and also like the other guys mentioned a GOOD detailed drawing "you probably need that anyways " . you mentioned you have a food cart already if you just want a copy of what you already have take the cart with you and get a bid to have one made per sample .  do you not have any tools at all ?if you don't you will need quite a few things 1)some sort of a saw to cut miters "accurately  " 2)4in. angle grinder with several grinding and sanding wheels 3)some squares and measuring tape 4)some way to drill holes 5)and a good welder that will do what you need to do 6)decent bench or sawhorse's to work off of 7) vise grips and clamps "several" 8) don't forget the safety stuff ie. welding helmet ,gloves, safety glasses etc.and 9) last but not least allot of time and patience .  what you have there basically is a glorified welding cart if you will that is usually what most people start with as a first project your is just a little bigger and little more complicated . as for welders those 110v units are always on craigslist i saw a very nice like new MM140 on there  for $575.00 thats if you have time to look . stick with the brand name welders Miller,Hobart,Lincoln. good luck let us know what you figure out . Chris
Reply:Thanks for the advice guys. I think I am going to go ahead with the project myself. I am going to do a starter project first, I'm going to make an apple cider press, which should use similar concepts, but much simpler.Are there any guides or tutorials for what kind of things should be on a proper sketch?As for the materials I'll be using steel square tubing. I can use regular steel for storage areas and side panels. Food contact surfaces need to be stainless steel, but on my cart right now the food contact areas are stainless steel sheet attached with rivets and sealed with some kind of silicone. I've taken some photos of the cart I have right now and will upload them when I get a chance.
Reply:Type of meterial, edge treatment, i.e what gets mitered, what gets butt what get capped, etc. You should be able to get to a list of parts from your drawing easy. I like to use google sketchup for it, because i can not draw by hand. I get a full cutlist of parts. The more time u think about it and plan it the easier is it going to go. Think about how you are going to hold work and ensure that it comes out sqaure. If u need help with google sketchup let me know i will give u a free online lesson.
Reply:What are the approximate dimensions ???  Could you find a cart similar to what you want and modify it to fit your needs ?   As stated, stick with the Miller and Lincoln. The Miller 211 would be a good choice for your needs . It is a multi volt 110/220 machine. Lincoln has one similar too. They will cost more but sounds like that's what you need. More money now but a better investment.
Reply:211 Is a great machine
Reply:Here is a link to some photo's I took yesterday of the welding job on my cart:https://plus.google.com/photos/10391...PG6or2x1p-3vgEI have plenty of time to do this project, I don't have any deadlines and can take my time finding a good welder.zgozman, I'm downloading Google Sketchup right now, I'll get the sketch in there asap.
Reply:there are couple of horrendous looking welds on the roof of that thing.