Lincoln Precision TIG 275 pkg OR Miller TIG 250 DX?!?

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Hey, I would like some opinions about if I should be purchasing a brand new Miller syncrowave 250 DX or a Lincoln precision TIG 275 package. Up here in canada the pricing is very competitive between the two, and if one is substantially better than the other, then the pricing should reflect. But it does'nt reflect in the price. I am purchasing it for specialty welding and also production for Aluminum, Stainless, and regular SteelI have seen a sync 250 dx in working form, as well as a sync 350. I have access to a 350 near my home, and a friend has a 250. Both I have seen weld with no problems at all. But the sync 350 had a start amperage circuit board problem, and has the board fixed. I've never seen a Lincoln 275 in working form, but have heard they have no problems as well. I have heard nothing but good things about the miller machines listed, accept one person says that claims to be some guru in welding saying the sync 250's are pieces of crap, and has seen them fail repeatedly. Apparently the 250 can't live up to their advertized material thickness welding capabilities. This "guru" says the 250 can weld 1/4" thick aluminum from the edge, but cant weld 1/4" thick along the center of the plate from cold.This guru also states that Lincoln is the only welder for TIG that should be used.I've done my research on each manufacturers websites:Miller 250====http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...rowave_250_dx/Lincoln 275====http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Cat...t.aspx?p=58124But only Miller states material thickness limitations, and it says 3/8" Aluminum capabilities. What can Lincoln weld thickness up to? I know it takes alot of amperage to weld aluminum in AC, so I have 575V 3PH AC in my establishment to supply what ever amperage the machine wants.I know if I am to pre-heat material, I can weld thicker materials than 3/8" Aluminum, but what I would need to know is if the sync 250 can live up to welding a cold 1/4 or 3/8" aluminum plate starting from the center of the plate and T-Weld another 1/4 or 3/8" plate to it without preheating..I know to everyone price maters for making a choice to purchase. But personaly I have my limitations and they arn't very high. I know between $5k and $6k can get me either lincoln 275 or miller 250 but I need some advice about if this guru person's advice is true, or if he is just some Miller hater... I see manufacturer haters all the time, and I would rather not be swayed by one person's opinion.... So what do you think?
Reply:We had about 15 of each in the shop I used to be in.  They were used 8 hours a day, M-F, about a 50/50 split of GTAW and SMAW.  In terms of reliability, our Precision TIGs had to be serviced somewhat more frequently than our Millers.  In terms of performance at low-mid amperage limits, the Miller had superior arc characteristics with TIG.  Period.  It was a more controlled arc, better starts, better control over the arc adjustments.  I cannot comment on their capabilities when maxed out, as I never had a need to run either wide open.
Reply:Never used a Lincoln 275 so I can't address that machine specifically.Having used Sync 250's now for about 25 yrs, I can state that I think the guy who's putting down the Sync is full of bull.  I've owned three of them and have had nothing but good experience with all of them.  The only reason I upgraded the last time (96 mod to 05 mod) was to get the digital display and be able to easily add the pulser option.I can't address your specific needs, however, in my experience with the machines, they do everything (and then some) that Miller claims they will.  If you've got a friend with one, take samples of your work to him and melt it.To me it would really come down to a service issue.  Who can service either machine should something happen to fail.  For me, there's no question.  Miller service stands head and shoulders above Lincoln in my area.  You'd be hard pressed to find a company that does a better job of standing behind their product than Miller.  You have a question.  You pick up the phone and call tech support.  You'll get a knowledgeable guy on the other end.One, who if he can't answer the question, will call you back with an answer.The biggest objection most have to the transformer machines (true for Miller and Lincoln) is their power draw.  They both have high input power requirements, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for you.  Unfortunately, the Sync 250 DX (and I think the Lincoln) is a 1 Phase machine, so you won't be able to take advantage of the power you have available.I know you mentioned cost being a big factor, but have you also considered the Dynasty 350 DX.  This is an inverter based machine and could benefit from the 3 Phase power you have available.  In a production environment, the inverter will pay (lower power costs) for itself in a short period of time.  That and there'd be no question about whether the machine would do the job.  It's more money up front, but offers a multitude of features not found on any transformer based machine.I know pricing is different north of the border, but down here the Sync 250 DX complete (incl cooler, contactor kit, torch, etc) can be had for around $4,500.  The Dynasty 350 DX complete goes for around $7,500.In summary, if my Syncrowave 250 DX was stolen tomorrow, I'd go right out and buy another one just like it.  Don't know what more I can say.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII know you mentioned cost being a big factor, but have you also considered the Dynasty 350 DX.  This is an inverter based machine and could benefit from the 3 Phase power you have available.  In a production environment, the inverter will pay (lower power costs) for itself in a short period of time.  That and there'd be no question about whether the machine would do the job.  It's more money up front, but offers a multitude of features not found on any transformer based machine.
Reply:I'm really torn here between going with the Sync 250 or the Precision 275.I can get the sync 250 complete package for $5,500,and I can get the Precision 275 complete package for $4,995.The Lincoln has a higher amp capacity than the Miller for I am assuming thicker material abilities AND is cheaper for me. But the Miller has aparently better weld control in middle range thickneses, but was that with the optional pulse module or no? I can get the pulse module for another $375 or so, but haven't decided if I should or not.
Reply:vnlvet,You can get the pulse module for the Sync 250 from IOC for $200.  Takes about 15 min. to install yourself.Don't be too hoodwinked by "higher output" claims.  Get the machine that meets your best "overall" requirements.If push comes to shove, you can always add a little helium to your gas mix to "boost" you machine's output.If you're even seriously considering going to the Sync 350 LX, I'd strongly recommend that you also consider the Dynasty 350.The prices you're quoting seem high, but I guess that's based on the Canadian dollar.Around here, general concensus is that Lincoln may make slightly better engine drive welders, but Miller rules when it comes to shop machines.  I do some consulting in the field, and all the shops I work with are Miller.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:i tell you what the 275  is very good .  i  bought my 275  for 5,000 . with tic mode  and i have never had a problm with it and  i weld .030 to .500Rod Burner
Reply:Bought a 250 syncro in 78 kept it untill 2000, only problems was 2 relays replaced. Bought new 250 syncro in 99 and am still using it, no problems yet. Cover has never been off. Lincoln- welded with a few but never owned one. They did weld well.Need to weld thick al? Helium helps and I have used mix to weld heads. But preheat does wanders also so I just use argon now. 350 degree preheat will reduce amps needed to weld al by roughly 50 percent, so what would take 500 amps to start a puddle on would only use roughly 250 amps when hot.Looked at the new inverter machines but they don't seem to be as bullet proof as the syncro. If I get a inverter I will keep my syncro.Thats my 10 cents (dimes worth).Peter
Reply:At school we have both.I tried both .. only used the miller once tho so i cant say much there. But for the lincoln its pretty sweet. For the pulse panel the lincoln is way easier to install , the miller its a pain. Not that it would matter to you much.