question about properties of aluminum in use

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Hi fellas and ladies present,I have wondered about when to use the two main aluminum tig rods that are in circulation, 4043 and 5356 and when to use one over the other.In general I know that 5356 is stronger than 4043.  I know that 4043 is a more ductile filler that can resist cracking easier than 5356.  I tend to use 5356 when I want a stronger weld and 4043 when I want a smoother, easier to run bead or when I want to avoid cracking.  I use it generally over 5356 on most things.However I vaguely remember reading or hearing that 5356 is not a good choice where heat is involved and so have avoided using it around engine and transmission repairs or where heat will be present.  However this is more a hunch than an educated decision and I thought I'd ask others who know more about aluminum welding than I.Is 5356 subject to failure over a certain temperature?  Should this rod be avoided in certain applications?  What about 4043? Same questions.What do you think?Thanks,Tony
Reply:I have stated this 100 times so this is 101..I use 4043 for anything BILLET..I use 5356 for CASTINGS or if the part will be ANODIZED afterwards.That's what I use and my results are VERY GOOD every time.Your results may vary....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Not to ignite this old debate again, but Alcotech (and others) don't necessarily agreewith Zap; with a little more studied approach, explaining 'why?'. I've had decent results both ways,but now tend to follow the recco's. of the filler manufacturers.http://www.alcotec.com/us/en/educati...techknowledge/http://www.alcotec.com/us/en/educati...-selection.cfmBlackbird
Reply:Actually 5356 is MORE ductile than 4043. However will develop and retain more porosity than 4043 due to the addition of magnesium.Last edited by shovelon; 01-07-2013 at 06:46 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonActually 5356 is MORE ductile than 4043.
Reply:We all have our tried and true methods..Use whatever you want.Done right chances are that it will work.Unless you use 4043 for anodized stuff.That will not work.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Thanks fellas for the information and your experience.  I skimmed through Alcotec's filler guides and found reference to 5356 not being suited for applications where temperatures will exceed 150 degrees F.This being the case then is it safe to assume it would not be the best choice for tranny cases  or engine parts (block, manifold, etc.) where temperatures would normally run in the higher temperature range?My fear would be that a tranny case for example that ran hot could cause a failure in the welded joint.  I just repaired two aluminum transmission cases that were both cracked 3/4 of the way around the bell housing.I drilled out the end of the crack, grooved it all out, heated the area and welded it out first on one side, pausing to reheat it periodically to try and keep it at an even temperature.  Then I flipped it over and welded the backside so that I had full penetration and could see the crack disappearing into the puddle.  I then post heated it and covered it with a fire blanket.I used 4043 only because I was reluctant to weld it with 5356 and subject it to a possible failure due to the heat.  However I would rather have had the higher tensile strength of the 5356 filler rod.Anyone have any thoughts on this?  Am I right or is this not something to worry about?Thanks,TonyPS: pictures of one of the repaired tranny case  attached. Attached Images
Reply:if the transmission ran hot enough to make a weld fail it would be a total flaming melt-down. you should have grooved the crack with a carbide burr before welding.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:I see a lot of black around the inside weld on the right side. That's usually a sign of contamination form something. I can't tell from the outside pict if I'm seeing the same black right at the edge as well, though I'm pretty sure I see some at the top and near where the start stop is. There also looks like a big black sooty spot on the bottom near the ear..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hello all,my concern about heat related failure came from having heard (or read) about 5356 filler not being suitable for elevated temperatures.  When I read the documents referred to by Dave P with the link provided. One of them clearly states that 150 degrees F is the temperature threshold for the 5000 series filler rod.However in practice if others routinely use it for auto components (transmission, engine block, etc.) then it means that it is safe to use in this fashion,My welding rig's engine runs at 180 degrees in the cooler months and up to 220 degrees in the summer months here in Phoenix.  I think my transmission would run hot as well, although maybe not as hot as the engine.Is the consensus that this heat level is safe for 5356 rod?  What do you think?Also I ground out the crack with a grinding disk followed by a stainless wire wheel for a final cleaning prior to welding.  I need to get a new aluminum cutting burr, mine is chewed up with cutting grooves all shot to hell.
Reply:It took me a number of tries at rewelding my repairs on aluminum to teach me that it is almost ALWAYS best to grind a nice groove in everything that you actually want to stay together over time.  I learned SLOWLY on that issue.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHello all,my concern about heat related failure came from having heard (or read) about 5356 filler not being suitable for elevated temperatures.  When I read the documents referred to by Dave P with the link provided. One of them clearly states that 150 degrees F is the temperature threshold for the 5000 series filler rod.However in practice if others routinely use it for auto components (transmission, engine block, etc.) then it means that it is safe to use in this fashion,My welding rig's engine runs at 180 degrees in the cooler months and up to 220 degrees in the summer months here in Phoenix.  I think my transmission would run hot as well, although maybe not as hot as the engine.Is the consensus that this heat level is safe for 5356 rod?  What do you think?Also I ground out the crack with a grinding disk followed by a stainless wire wheel for a final cleaning prior to welding.  I need to get a new aluminum cutting burr, mine is chewed up with cutting grooves all shot to hell.
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraAlso I ground out the crack with a grinding disk followed by a stainless wire wheel for a final cleaning prior to welding.  I need to get a new aluminum cutting burr, mine is chewed up with cutting grooves all shot to hell.
Reply:Originally Posted by therrera....My welding rig's engine runs at 180 degrees in the cooler months and up to 220 degrees in the summer months here in Phoenix.  I think my transmission would run hot as well, although maybe not as hot as the engine......