2% Lanthanated Electrode

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I bought a package of 3/32 2% Lanthanated electrodes to try after hearing about how well they work and so far it looks like I will be replacing my reds and greens with blues. But I am having a little trouble with AC on aluminum, I have terrible arc wander until I get a puddle formed and sometimes I still get a bit of wander when I taper off the amperage at the end of the bead. My question is, what shape or angle are people using when welding aluminum with AC? I tried several different angles and got mixed results myself, it seems that a blunt (no angle) worked about as well at higher amperages, but I was all over the place with my amperage (several different thicknesses I was playing with) I was running anywhere from 50 amps to 250amp with the 3/32 electrode (no wiggle).-Dan
Reply:I'm using 1.5% lanthanated. Love it so far. I haven't tried AC yet but supposedly you can use a point like steel.Miller Syncrowave 180SDMillermatic 175
Reply:Our manual welders use lanthiated and hate them.  In one shop, they put up a huge protest and got special dispensation to continue using thoriated with a special HEPA filtered grinder to control the radioactive dust.  We try to use lanthiated in our orbital tube welders, and they last a fraction of the time the thoriated ones do.  They turn grey and lose their point rather quickly.
Reply:I used to use pure Tungsten on AC for aluminum but I noticed that it would tend to make a large ball after a little bit. Based on suggestion of people here, in particular Zapster, to use red 2% thoriated on every type of TIG welding, I started doing that. I just grind to a sharp point, then blunt the end slightly. With AC, it will make a nice tight ball automatically. I don't know about other types as the last time I tried to get something other than thoriated the LWS was out of stock. The red will do just fine for my welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by obewanOur manual welders use lanthiated and hate them.  In one shop, they put up a huge protest and got special dispensation to continue using thoriated with a special HEPA filtered grinder to control the radioactive dust.  We try to use lanthiated in our orbital tube welders, and they last a fraction of the time the thoriated ones do.  They turn grey and lose their point rather quickly.
Reply:[QUOTE=Kubs;193583] A 10 pack of 7" 1/8"  1.5% lanthanated electrodes was $100+, i was sane and just picked up two sticks of it./QUOTE]http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=2261http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=2265Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:[quote=Broccoli1;193584] Originally Posted by Kubs A 10 pack of 7" 1/8"  1.5% lanthanated electrodes was $100+, i was sane and just picked up two sticks of it./QUOTE]http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=2261http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=2265
Reply:Looks I may be buying some tungsten in the near future Miller Syncrowave 180SDMillermatic 175
Reply:Originally Posted by obewanOur manual welders use lanthiated and hate them.  In one shop, they put up a huge protest and got special dispensation to continue using thoriated with a special HEPA filtered grinder to control the radioactive dust.  We try to use lanthiated in our orbital tube welders, and they last a fraction of the time the thoriated ones do.  They turn grey and lose their point rather quickly.
Reply:Personally I share the same views about the "hazards" of thoriated. Sure its hazardous at some level. The severity of it IMO its prolly insignificant though. The only reason theres a notification of a hazard is liability issues. Other than that my personal choice for lanthanated was to experiment with it for weld quality. I, as of this writing, see no issues with it.Miller Syncrowave 180SDMillermatic 175
Reply:You know what?I've suddenly started to glow at night...Stay away from Red End Tungestion......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I have used plain, red, gold, grey, orange and brown.  Of all of them, the gold seems to hold up the best.  When using red on AC, the electrode seems to grow hair or attract stuff to it or something.  The point sometime gets all messed up.  Gold does not do that.As usual, it doesn't matter what color it is when I dip it in the puddle.For DC it doesn't seem to matter what I use except no pure (green)DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RAs usual, it doesn't matter what color it is when I dip it in the puddle.David
Reply:Donald, it's not radiation specifically that the thoria warning is about, it's an alpha emitter and thus harmless to hold. Specifically it's the inhalation/ingestion of the dust from grinding which is a known carcinogen- of course, breathing/ingesting any grinding dust ain't the smartest thing to do. Given the recent lawsuits concering other welding consumables, rest assured the warning ain't going away...This is the first time i've heard negative comments about lanthanated electrodes (aside from how difficult they can be to find). There are subtle differences with the different types but i've always found 2% lanthanated to outperform 2% thoriated and ceriated to be the worst, longevity wise. Most comparisons are subjective but with orbital welding kit there are few variables... maybe a bad batch Dan, a bit of arc wander when initally striking an arc on Al is normal. As for tungsten prep, a lot is down to personal preference...At one extreme you have the traditional balled electrode (for pure) and a rounded tip for zirconiated- sort of hemispherical shaped tipFor a sharper electrode you will want to 'blunt' the tip. Leave a small flat instead of a sharp tip- around 0.5mm - 1mm or so. If the 'flat' is sized well it'll just round off with use rather than balling up. As with DC welding, higher amperages call for a shorter taperIf i'm welding Al with a 'sharp' tungsten (thin sheet aside) i typically leave around a 1mm flat on a 2.4mm (3/32) zirconiated or lanthanated tungsten and vary the length of the taper according to amperage- around 90-120A i use a taper around 2D long, closer to 1D at around 150A
Reply:Originally Posted by obewanOur manual welders use lanthiated and hate them.  In one shop, they put up a huge protest and got special dispensation to continue using thoriated with a special HEPA filtered grinder to control the radioactive dust.  We try to use lanthiated in our orbital tube welders, and they last a fraction of the time the thoriated ones do.  They turn grey and lose their point rather quickly.
Reply:hotrodder - Thanks, your post is the direction I was looking for, I am not using Lantanated because of the radiation hazard or because thoriated is not good enough. I am simply looking for an single tungsten for all occasions (so I can grind both ends) and as an alternative to pure tungsten for welding aluminum that will not require me to get a 5/32 electrode for ~250 amps AC. My torch only holds up to 1/8 without getting special collets and related parts (not what I wish to do). So if anyone else has some tips for getting a good stable arc I am interested. I have burned through about 40 coupons of 1/16 aluminum in the last couple days and about 2 inchs of electrode grinding different tips. I made an additional discovery tonight, a slight dip into the aluminum pool actually stablizes the arc quite a bit (not that I am going to do that). -Dan
Reply:Just a piece of trivia---the flints in  cigarette lighters and old-fashioned torch sparkers are made of an alloy of rare earth metals, "Misch Metal",  typically 52% cerium, 18% neodymium, 5% praseodymium, 1% samarium and 24% others including lanthanum. No mention of thorium- I'll have to call a friend who built a spectrograph tosee if he can check for it!  Maybe we need warnings on lighters about that too!
Reply:I get mine off of Ebay through HTP and Jeff Noland. Super cheep price. Buy a bunch and wait for them to combine the shipping cost and save a ton of money. Here is a link 1/8 Lanthanated for $13.00 plus shipping for 5 pieces. 1/8 is the most costly of the sizes(largest).http://cgi.ebay.com/1-1-2-Lanthanate...QQcmdZViewItemJamesDrag Racing is for Fast Cars. Time Attack is for Fast Drivers!Miller Dynasty 200DX SOLDWeld Tec WatercoolerSOLDMiller Millermatic 180 w/ Spoolmate 100 Everlast 325 EXT w/300 Water Coolerwww.felixperformance.com
Reply:The problems we have with the switch to lanthanated are related to arc voltage.  Thoria has a higher arc voltage I think, so the heat input to the weld process is greater at a given current setting.  We have around 200 orbital weld procedures that would need to be requalified at great time and expense.  Then, too we feel the quality would suffer.  As little as 1-2% change in heat input can make or break some of our sensitive orbital weld procedures. We are already using lantia on some of our manual weld processes.  They are a totally different animal since most use foot pedal control and the ole human eyeball.
Reply:For orbital welding equipment we have found that 2% ceriated works well.
Reply:I haven't TIGed in years but I've been told the lanthanated tungstons worked best in invertor machines and to use thorated in transformer machines. Any truth to that?Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:I recently went to 1.5% Lanthanated with my Miller 180SD and I love it for both DC and AC. For AC welding I usually start with a truncated tip and it develops a small ball as I weld. It works better than ceriated and thoriated for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by Precision WeldingFor orbital welding equipment we have found that 2% ceriated works well.
Reply:Supe,What kind of machines are you running?  Tube size? Tungsten Dia.?  Wall thickness?Alot will depend on angle, polished tip or not, tip diameter and if you are pumping to much power through an electrode that may be too small for the current you are running.