|
|
I am interested in getting a new welder. I am going to be trying some 5/64" 6013 and 1/16" 7014 (see thread) on my old 50 amp 110v buzz box, but once I get decent with that I'd like to get a better welder and eventually be able to build or repair small utility trailers (3,000lb GTWR and less). I know I need to get better first, and may even take a welding course before attempting working on anything that sees the road. These are the machines I'm thinking about:- Everlast PowerArc 140ST - Designed in USA, Made in China - $275, 85A @ 110v, 140A @ 220v DC Stick, 35% @ max amps (no material thickness rating)- Hobart Handler 125 - Made in USA - $370, MIG ready wirefeed, 20% @ 85A, 125A max on 110v / rated for 3/16" material- Hobart Handler 140 - Made in the USA - $499, Mig ready wirefeed, 20% @ 90A, 140A max on 110v / rated for 1/4" materialAre any of these large enough to do light trailer work or do I really need a larger 220v machine? I don't mind using 220v (I'd have to run a line, but no big deal there), it's just that most of those are pretty heavy and/or expensive. From what I understand, these smaller trailers use 3/16" angle for the frame normally and 1/8" angle for the rest of it. I'd like a lightweight machine as I will need to store it in my basement but use it outside (no garage).
Reply:Niether of the Hobarts will do more than 1/8" despite what the manufacturers info might say, under real world conditions. I'm not that familiar with the Everlast machine, but on 110v power most 85-90 amp stick machines are borderline on running 3/32" stick rods. 3/32" would be the absolute minimum rod I'd want to run to build a trailer using a stick machine. On 220v power it should do ok.You really will need to look at a 220v machine if you want the output to make sure you get solid welds. You will find it much easier to learn using a 220v stick machine vs the one you have now. Running 3/32" or 1/8" rods you will be able to keep the rods steadier and you will have plenty of power to get them to burn in well. Small cheap 110v machines are tempting because of how easy it is to power them and how inexpensive they are, but in reality they often make learning much more difficult vs using a 220v unit..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Well that's just funny. The Hobart 140 is rated for 1/4" while the Miller 140 (more expensive) is rated for 3/16". Anyways General rule of thumb is 1 amp per thousandths of material thickness. 3/16" is .165 inches. So it seams that none of those welders would work. I have done full pen welds with the Miller 140 on 3/16" however but that was with flux core and the machine was hitting the thermal shutdown alot.The 110v machines are great for exhaust or sheet metal work but beyond that they're not really cut out for much. I just sold off my 140 and will be getting either a 211 or a 212 when I get back stateside. Trust you'll want more than what those machines can give real quick.NickESAB CaddyTig 2200iPowermax 45MM140 (Sold)
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNiether of the Hobarts will do more than 1/8" despite what the manufacturers info might say, under real world conditions. I'm not that familiar with the Everlast machine, but on 110v power most 85-90 amp stick machines are borderline on running 3/32" stick rods. 3/32" would be the absolute minimum rod I'd want to run to build a trailer using a stick machine. On 220v power it should do ok.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85So it looks like from those options the little Everlast 140ST running on 220v would be the best bet, huh?Am I right in thinking that 140amps on a stick machine with the proper electrode will yield better results than 140amps on a wirefeed?I thought the rule was 1 amp per 0.001 of ROD size not material size. IE - 125amps for a 1/8" rod.
Reply:Originally Posted by SnuffyI was talkin mainly about the mig welders. Didn't know what the everlast was and just assumed it was another mig
Reply:Take a class first, then get your own machine. Not only will you get a better idea of what you will need to do the job you intend to do, but you'll have a better idea of what machine will fit your needs. Knowledge is power, get the knowledge first. than worry about the power.Now, if you're going to ignore that advice. please refer to DSW's post above.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I've got to thinking and for $320 I can get a Hobart Stickmate 235 AC from Tractor Supply. 100% duty cycle at 100A, 20% duty cycle at 225A. Seems like really good specs for a good price. Similar spec'd used machines in red and blue go for ~$200 around here. I like the idea of buying used but they are hard to find in good shape it seems and for $320...that's not bad. Looks like a 220v MIG would be $700+ new and $500+ used. For the small amount of welding I do I don't mind taking a little extra time for a stick welder.What do you guys think?
Reply:The Everlast 140st will work fine, plus u get a basic DC tig setup if you get tempted to try your hand at TIG welding. I did a review on it a while back, Some improvements have been made to the unit since. It actually had a pretty good duty cycle and in real world use you will not hit the duty cycle on it. Also Ask Olag for a good discount on the price and tell him I said you should ask for a better deal... I'd shoot for $225on Migs, look closely at the ratings, the max ratings are usually for Flux core not MIG wire. also the duty cycles are crap on small mig welder... 10-20% at max output... welding for a minute and waiting 9 more for it to cool is a joke.. If you want MIG the definitely go with a 220 vac machine with a 175 amp or higher rating... For Mig and Stick combined, you might consider this too http://www.longevity-inc.com/product...GWELD-200S.phpI don't have any personal experience with this unit though..Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Longevity 200s mig welder. Lanse loves his.http://www.longevity-inc.com/product...GWELD-200S.phpIn fact I think I may want one sooner or later Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleLongevity 200s mig welder. Lanse loves his.http://www.longevity-inc.com/product...GWELD-200S.phpIn fact I think I may want one sooner or later
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawHaHa... I said it First...
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85I've got to thinking and for $320 I can get a Hobart Stickmate 235 AC from Tractor Supply. 100% duty cycle at 100A, 20% duty cycle at 225A. Seems like really good specs for a good price. Similar spec'd used machines in red and blue go for ~$200 around here. I like the idea of buying used but they are hard to find in good shape it seems and for $320...that's not bad. Looks like a 220v MIG would be $700+ new and $500+ used. For the small amount of welding I do I don't mind taking a little extra time for a stick welder.What do you guys think?
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawThe Everlast 140st will work fine, plus u get a basic DC tig setup if you get tempted to try your hand at TIG welding. I did a review on it a while back, Some improvements have been made to the unit since. It actually had a pretty good duty cycle and in real world use you will not hit the duty cycle on it. Also Ask Olag for a good discount on the price and tell him I said you should ask for a better deal... I'd shoot for $225
Reply:The LX-235 AC/DC Stickmate is, in my opinion, the best bang for the buck. I keep mine in the garage workshop. My first real project was a cart to roll it around. The cart has a long handle and a smooth back so I can drag it into the back of my van.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85Will the Everlast be able to weld 3/16" though? Everyone here keeps mentioning 1/8", but I think most trailers use 3/16" as the frame and I really don't want to get a welder just to find that it can *almost* do the job, I want one that can do it. I don't need anything much more than that, but still, I want to be able to do a quality, safe weld on 3/16" steel.I can get the 235 AC/DC for $500 at Tractor Supply. 100lbs of Made in USA transformer welder. Certainly no fun to drag out of the basement, but I'd imagine it would probably outlive me. What do you think about those?
Reply:You might take a minute to add your location to your User CP at the top left so we know where you are located at. Many of the guys here peruse CL regularly and are usually more than willing to pass on suggestions if they know you are interested AND know it's in your area...As far as stick and thickness, 140 amps running from a 220v machine is more than capable of welding almost anything up to 1/2" with no problem, and even thicker with the right prep. Down side of stick is that it's usually much harder to weld thinner materials. much below 14 ga and most people start to have real issues with burn thru. This is where a 220v mig helps. A 180-200 amp 220v mig will easily do at least 1/4" on the top end, and down to 18-20ga with gas on the lower end of the spectrum. You pay more however for a decent unit. There's always some sort of trade off with everything.I'll stay out of the Everlast/Longevity thing as I'm not 100% convinced of the quality of their units based on past issues, and honestly haven't been a big fan of their customer service and sales marketing tactics. Lets just leave it there..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawStick is totally different than MIG. the current in stick is basically set by the size of the rod. at 140 amps DC you can easily weld 1/2 plate with 3/32 or 1/8 E6011 rod for example. why spend double for the 235 ac/dc when u can get an inverter for half the price? it seems you are not really sure what process you want, that said The Longevity that we referenced may be a good start or if you want to drop some extra coin the 181i or 211i for Thermal Arc
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou might take a minute to add your location to your User CP at the top left so we know where you are located at. Many of the guys here peruse CL regularly and are usually more than willing to pass on suggestions if they know you are interested AND know it's in your area...As far as stick and thickness, 140 amps running from a 220v machine is more than capable of welding almost anything up to 1/2" with no problem, and even thicker with the right prep. Down side of stick is that it's usually much harder to weld thinner materials. much below 14 ga and most people start to have real issues with burn thru. This is where a 220v mig helps. A 180-200 amp 220v mig will easily do at least 1/4" on the top end, and down to 18-20ga with gas on the lower end of the spectrum. You pay more however for a decent unit. There's always some sort of trade off with everything.I'll stay out of the Everlast/Longevity thing as I'm not 100% convinced of the quality of their units based on past issues, and honestly haven't been a big fan of their customer service and sales marketing tactics. Lets just leave it there.
Reply:Is Dc "essential", in general no. But it does make running some rods easier and a few rods do only run on DC. Most of those DC only rods aren't ones the average hobby guy will ever need, or they can be replaced with a similar AC rated rod. Given a choice I'll almost always run DC. That said, there have been quite a few things built over the years with AC only stick machines. You can usually find used Ac only 220v transformer stick machines from $50-150 on CL with no problems. Used AC/DC units are a bit harder to find, and usually run from $250-500. At the upper end of that range you usually find nice industrial quality Dialarcs and Idealarcs that will blow even that Hobart out of the water as far as output and quality. One nice thing about the older transformer machines, they seldom if ever go bad in hobby use. If they weld when you buy them, chances are high they will still be welding when your grand kids inherit them. I spent a lot of years with only a used Craftsman AC transformer stick machine to use for stick. When I managed to find a deal on an AC/DC unit, I kept the old AC one and finally sold it to a kid here so he could learn with it. As far as I know, it's still going strong on at least it's 3rd owner.Cheap inverters on the other hand, have a spotty reputation. Many run fine for a few dozen hours then blow up. The reason is cheap components and poor quality control. The skipped steps that keep costs down often lead to equipment failure down the road. I will admit it looks like many of these companies have gotten better as time has gone on, but I'd still treat these machines as "disposable" When they fail, don't expect to be easily able to get them repaired. Usually if they are out of warranty, the cost of repairs exceeds the cost of a similar new unit. If they are still under warranty, most retailers simply replace the unit with another one rather than repair them..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIs Dc "essential", in general no. But it does make running some rods easier and a few rods do only run on DC. Most of those DC only rods aren't ones the average hobby guy will ever need, or they can be replaced with a similar AC rated rod. Given a choice I'll almost always run DC. That said, there have been quite a few things built over the years with AC only stick machines. You can usually find used Ac only 220v transformer stick machines from $50-150 on CL with no problems. Used AC/DC units are a bit harder to find, and usually run from $250-500. At the upper end of that range you usually find nice industrial quality Dialarcs and Idealarcs that will blow even that Hobart out of the water as far as output and quality. One nice thing about the older transformer machines, they seldom if ever go bad in hobby use. If they weld when you buy them, chances are high they will still be welding when your grand kids inherit them. I spent a lot of years with only a used Craftsman AC transformer stick machine to use for stick. When I managed to find a deal on an AC/DC unit, I kept the old AC one and finally sold it to a kid here so he could learn with it. As far as I know, it's still going strong on at least it's 3rd owner.Cheap inverters on the other hand, have a spotty reputation. Many run fine for a few dozen hours then blow up. The reason is cheap components and poor quality control. The skipped steps that keep costs down often lead to equipment failure down the road. I will admit it looks like many of these companies have gotten better as time has gone on, but I'd still treat these machines as "disposable" When they fail, don't expect to be easily able to get them repaired. Usually if they are out of warranty, the cost of repairs exceeds the cost of a similar new unit. If they are still under warranty, most retailers simply replace the unit with another one rather than repair them.
Reply:Great info guys. I guess my first step will be to talk to my father in law and see if that old 1950's or 1960's vintage Craftsman 220v welder is still in his garage...he had mentioned a few years ago I could have it. At the time I had no need...now I wish I had grabbed it. I had forgotten all about it till now
Reply:I would stick with the Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart. Look for a used stick AC/DC Miller thunderbolt or a Lincoln tombstone. They are 220 volt power source and you can't go wrong. Mig, Miller 211 multi volt 110/220 machine infinite adjustment or the lincoln multi volt. Buy it once, cry about spending your money, and be happy on a solid investment.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1I would stick with the Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart. Look for a used stick AC/DC Miller thunderbolt or a Lincoln tombstone. They are 220 volt power source and you can't go wrong. Mig, Miller 211 multi volt 110/220 machine infinite adjustment or the lincoln multi volt. Buy it once, cry about spending your money, and be happy on a solid investment.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85Great info guys. I guess my first step will be to talk to my father in law and see if that old 1950's or 1960's vintage Craftsman 220v welder is still in his garage...he had mentioned a few years ago I could have it. At the time I had no need...now I wish I had grabbed it. I had forgotten all about it till nowOriginally Posted by joecool85Great info guys. I guess my first step will be to talk to my father in law and see if that old 1950's or 1960's vintage Craftsman 220v welder is still in his garage...he had mentioned a few years ago I could have it. At the time I had no need...now I wish I had grabbed it. I had forgotten all about it till now
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleLongevity 200s mig welder. Lanse loves his.http://www.longevity-inc.com/product...GWELD-200S.phpIn fact I think I may want one sooner or later
Reply:If you look at used prices for the china made imports you will see they are almost free. Check used prices on the real machines and people try to get what they cost new. If you buy used try it or have owner demo it. Would you buy a defibrillator from harbor freight ???
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85Great info guys. I guess my first step will be to talk to my father in law and see if that old 1950's or 1960's vintage Craftsman 220v welder is still in his garage...he had mentioned a few years ago I could have it. At the time I had no need...now I wish I had grabbed it. I had forgotten all about it till now
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawAnytime you buy used u r taking a risk.
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03That's true. But if you stick to paying scrap metal prices for those old transformer based machines, you stand to lose a lot less if it doesn't work. Other than a shorted or open transformer, there isn't much in there that can't be repaired at a reasonable cost.To the OP... I had the Hobart 235 AC/DC to learn stick. It's a nice machine, and I would still have it if I hadn't run across the machine in my profile pic. That one was one of those, needs some TLC machines that come around now and then for a decent price. I put a lot of sweat equity into it, but now I have a monster sized hobby welder that will do 100 percent duty cycle at the amperage the Hobart would have been topped out at with a 20 percent cycle.I don't want to knock the inverter machines that southpaw mentioned, but the basic nature of transformer stick welders make them almost bullet proof, at the cost of efficiency.Papa
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI am totally in agreement with you on the old transformers, I have bought many of them, but if someone is not familiar with older stuff and how to test it or what its worth as scrap etc. its much more of a crapshoot... I try and go off what the OP posts about their wants and experience when making welding machine recommendations that seem to best fit the OP and their needs/wants that's all. Also OP has not told us what power service they have available. as they were looking at 110vac or dual voltage I suspect they don't have access to big 220vac circuit... probably at most a 30 amp dryer circuit.. this will not cut it for a transformer and the cost to wire a new circuit can easily exceed the savings of buying a transformer.. The OP did mention they liked the portability aspect too..
Reply:Joecool,Take a look on maine.craigslist.com. They have 53 listings from all over the state.There are another 100 listed in N.H. They may not be to far from you depending where in Minne you are and how far you want to travel.good luckbob
Reply:The first thing everyone builds is a welding cart anyway so who cares how big it is.But I have an odd question. You want to build trailers? Cool, why do you say bring the welder up for the basement? No garage?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleThe first thing everyone builds is a welding cart anyway so who cares how big it is.But I have an odd question. You want to build trailers? Cool, why do you say bring the welder up for the basement? No garage?
Reply:Hey it's a goal to shoot for! If you weld in a basement make sure you have some good ventilation.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleHey it's a goal to shoot for! If you weld in a basement make sure you have some good ventilation.
Reply:If you were to buy a machine that is too large or heavy to easily move in and out of the basement, why not consider building a small METAL shed to store it in where you intend to use it? Build it so it will be secure from someone who may want it for free. You could have your 220V outlet in there and a couple of 120V outlets too. When you want to use it, just unlock the doors, roll out the leads and have at it. Then when done just roll up the leads and Lock it up till next time. Portability becomes kind of a non-issue, and increases your options on the machine you end up buying. It wouldn't have to be big enough to walk into, just enough to store the welder and maybe a few of your commonly used tools. It would look like a large doghouse with a locking door.
Reply:Um... 3/16 is not .165 its.1875Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85I can get the 235 AC/DC for $500 at Tractor Supply. 100lbs of Made in USA transformer welder.
Reply:If you're thinking stick, don't forget the TA 161S. It's around $450 new, weighs 25 lbs, and has TA quality. It runs of 110 or 220, so you can play around while your 220 is being ran.I have one and I love it. It's the machine I grab first for small repairs. I welded a skid steer front rack with it for 2 hours a few weeks ago. 1/2" steel with 1/8" 7018. It didn't miss a beat.If your dragging something outside from a basenent, you definitely don't want a 100+ pound tranny machine.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellHonestly, I don't know why anybody would pay $500 for a new transformer-based stick welder when you can buy them used for $200 or less all day long on Craigslist. I regularly see them for sale with long welding leads or extension cords that are worth half the asking price alone. I know people are hesitant about buying used, but there is very little on this earth that is more bulletproof than a transformer-based welder. Open it up, check for scorch marks or melted wire. Check for sloppy switches or whatever. Run a quick bead with it. If it welds and if it looks basically sound inside, it is probably going to outlive you. If something does fail, the most likely thing to fail will be the diodes in the DC output rectifier array, in which case the welder will work on AC but not DC. In that case, get the guy to knock $100 off and replace them yourself (easy if you know how to solder) or just pass and move on to the next one.If I was going to spend $500 on a new welder, there's no way I'd buy a transformer-based unit. I'd buy an inverter-based unit with all the bells and whistles. And if I wanted a transformer-based unit, there's no way I'd pay $500 for a new one.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Actually in my experience of repairing machines with diode rectifiers, if you lose a diode, the machine will not work in AC or DC. The circuit needs to be complete. Seen it happen in Miller A/BP 330, Dialarc HF & Dialarc 250 units anyways.
Reply:Dont believe AC is not used in industry we had 100 AC 500 amp transformers at one time 7/32& 1/4 E-7024 /E-6027 built bridges and boats for years . We still use 4 TM -500 's every day. |
|
发表于 2021-8-31 23:37:32