|
|
hey guys, I'm looking at getting a new tig. I've been looking at the Lincoln precision tig230 vs the everlast 250ex. I don't really need all of the bells and whistles on the everlast, but it is about $500 cheaper than the best price I can find on the Lincoln. I really want to buy an american product, but the price is pretty hard to overlook. Let's hear advice, NOT bashing!!!
Reply:First, what is your electrical system like? How many amp breakers? Got extra space? etc.What type of welding will you mainly be doing? Steel, Stainless etc.How thick/thin?How much room do you have? Do you need portability? There are a LOT of 250EX's out there now with very few problems. If you want to stick weld, it is also very capable. I have used the 225 Precision Tig. Its a good machine, and for a cheaper TIG, its probably as good as anything out there, but it is bulky for the amount of power it puts out. It doesn't have near the AC adjustability, nor the pulse adjustability, if that is a concern of yours.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Lug thanks for a reply. I always seem to leave something out. I have plenty of room for the lincoln and power. I want a machine capable of 22 ga to 3/8 steel, SS, and aluminum. I've been using an old buzz box with a miller HF box to weld these. I've been successful with this setup, but takes up a lot of room as well as having several pieces to make this work. hope this helps!
Reply:Take a look at the HTP and Thermal Arc units.
Reply:History says, that 5 years from now that Lincoln will still be welding away. If you need parts for it, just pick up the phone.In the event you decide to upgrade to a larger machine, say 3 years from now, I'm betting a used Lincoln Tig welder will be worth a lot more than $500 more than the import.The amount of power used by the average hobbiest (cost of electricity used) is in the noise level.I've owned Miller Syncrowave 250's since 1977. When you take into account what I paid for the machines when I purchased them (2 of them were bought new), what they cost to maintain (very minimal) and what I got for them when I sold them (resale value), it's cost me about $110/yr to have a 300A tig welder in the shop. Not bad I'd say. Wish the same could be said for all my tools.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeTake a look at the HTP and Thermal Arc units.
Reply:Originally Posted by ohmthishey guys, I'm looking at getting a new tig. I've been looking at the Lincoln precision tig230 vs the everlast 250ex. I don't really need all of the bells and whistles on the everlast, but it is about $500 cheaper than the best price I can find on the Lincoln. I really want to buy an american product, but the price is pretty hard to overlook. Let's hear advice, NOT bashing!!!
Reply:Broccolli, thanks for the link. You have to buy a stick electrode holder for the Lincoln so add some more to that price.....Were back at $500!
Reply:On "long term" tools I don't look so much at the purchase price but what is the "cost of ownership" over an extended period.Personally, I'd prefer a clean 2-3 yr old Sync or comparable Lincoln over a new import any day of the week.Check e-bay and see what a 2-3 year old Lincoln is selling for. Then check the price on the imports. From what I've seen, people will almost pay you to take one off their hands (if it's still working).Who's to say that the Chinese manufacturer will even be in business (or in the welding machine business) down the road. Same thing for the importer. They don't have the long term committment to the business that a company like Miller or Lincoln have. Who's to guarantee that if they have a "bad run" of machines that they could be forced to warantee, that they don't just shut the doors and move on. What "Capital Investment"/hard assets do they have.Heck, one of the importers can't even build a resonable welding table (which most hobbiest welders do as a first project).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:That is true, Everlast could go broke just like GM and Chrysler did. Wait a minute, those were decades old North American based corporations and giants at that!After seeing those companies go under plus all of the other collapsed giants of the last two years (Lehman Bros., Washington Mutual and on and on), it is clear that being an old established US based Company does not in any way means guaranteed survival. If anything, it means "Look out"If you don't already have a plasma cutter, you might consider the Power Pro 256 . I have a multi function Everlast, the little 205 DC machine. The plasma cutter works extremely well.Prior to getting this unit I was borrowing my friend's Lincoln 185 tig and his Hypertherm 30 plasma cutter. Both are nice machines but the combined cost in Canada of about $4,000 was too much for me.I find the little tig welder as nice to use as the Lincoln was and the plasma cutter is actually capable of quite a bit more than the Hypertherm could do. The Hypertherm would cut 3/8 cleanly whereas the Everlast will do 3/4. Not bad for 800 bucks.Here is a cut done with the 205. Attached Images
Reply:Sundown, hey thanks again for your input. I would love to get a gently used synchrowave 250. They aren't around here and I'm not buying one off of ebay. None on craigslist even if I look up to 2 hour drive away.
Reply:Originally Posted by worntornThat is true, Everlast could go broke just like GM and Chrysler did. Wait a minute, those were decades old North American based corporations and giants at that!After seeing those companies go under plus all of the other collapsed giants of the last two years (Lehman Bros., Washington Mutual and on and on), it is clear that being an old established US based Company does not in any way means guaranteed survival. If anything, it means "Look out".
Reply:"The most risky thing a person can do, is buy a low volume, small time, no-name anything."I can't agree with your statement.I bought two Vincent Rapides a few years back. Vincent was a low volume small time motorcycle manufacturer that went broke in the 1950s. From what you have stated, I should have a near worthless machine with no parts availability. Just the opposite is true, any part is available for these bikes and they have been one of the best investments I have ever made, more than doubling in value over the last few years.On top of that the value of these machines never dropped when things were really falling apart a couple of years ago.Generalizations generally don't work!Is your handle Makoman related to another relatively low volume manufacturer that went broke, the Maico motorcycle?I bought a 490 last year, I'm pretty sure it will be a good investment too.As for GM and Chrysler, the only reason you can still get parts is that the American and Canadian tax payers were forced to buy shares in these bankrupt companies to the tune of approximately 50 billion dollars. At the time we bought the shares these companies had no net assets and tens of billions in net liabilities plus were losing money on a massive scale. No investor in their right mind would pay money for shares in companies like that, so our Governments did it for us.GM has a 17 billion dollar unfunded pension liability alone. Where this will all end up no one knows, but I would not count on a perfect supply of parts for these vehicles into the foreseeable future.I feel better about continued parts availability for my Everlast welder than I do my Dodge truck.
Reply:sounds like he was going with everlastfrom the getgo and this is just a plug
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1PT225 = $1,976.00http://www.weldingmart.com/item/Lincoln_Electric/1053Everlast 250EX= $1,599.99$377.00 difference
Reply:And if he waits a year or so he can probably find one on e-bay for less than $500.Anybody else ever wonder why all the "glowing reports" on the Chinese machines come from newbies who don't make their living with their welding equipment?I "loved" the comment comparing the importers to "door to door salesmen". They're just using a different media. Last week manufacturer X built the greatest welder to ever come out of China. Next week, it will be manufacturer Y who just developed the greatest thing since soda crackers. Reality is, it all comes down to who can deliver the goods the cheapest.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:My take on it is that these inverter welders are more like a new TV set or computer than they are like an old style welder. Take a peek inside, they are all circuit boards and electronic components. The Lincoln Invertec and Miller Dynasty are made with these Chinese components too, you aren't buying something that is full of components made in the US. Often all that is done for the "Made in the US" label to be applied is some US based assembly. Or it could be assembled in Mexico like my US made but really Mexican made Dodge Truck.We think nothing of plunking down a couple of grand for a big Samsung LCD TV but for some reason with the welders the same kind of purchase gets the hackles up, even by people who are posting with a Chinese computer, own one of the above type TV sets and drive a vehicle loaded with electronics from China.The Chinese have established themselves in the manufacturing of electronics and you cannot roll back the clock on this.I use whatever works the best for me and ignore the Country of origin, it has little meaning anyway. My shop is full of machines from all over the world and there is not really one country that stands out as best, however there are a couple of manufacturers that stand out as the best.When it comes to machine tools and components using structural steel, I stay away from all things Chinese as they have established themselves there as manufacturers of highly variable and often very low grade steels. That could change in time and likely will, just the way Japan made "Japanese junk" in the 60s and now makes some pretty respectable stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAnd if he waits a year or so he can probably find one on e-bay for less than $500.Anybody else ever wonder why all the "glowing reports" on the Chinese machines come from newbies who don't make their living with their welding equipment?I "loved" the comment comparing the importers to "door to door salesmen". They're just using a different media. Last week manufacturer X built the greatest welder to ever come out of China. Next week, it will be manufacturer Y who just developed the greatest thing since soda crackers. Reality is, it all comes down to who can deliver the goods the cheapest.
Reply:when i have a choice i go usa or taiwanchinese stuff is last. thats why i boughta samsung lcd there made in s. korea
Reply:Originally Posted by ed macsounds like he was going with everlastfrom the getgo and this is just a plug
Reply:worntorn,I think your last post points up the difference in thinking between you and me.To a guy using his equipment to produce income, the initial cost of a machine is only one (and oftentimes not the most important) consideration. He's looking for capability, durability, and the ability to get the machine back in service if he has a problem. He's found that "cheap" is often very costly when he's working to a deadline and his equipment takes a "lunch break".I think it very narrowminded to think that the same quality components go into making one of the cheaper Chinese imports as go into say a Lincoln or Miller welder. I agree, parts (particularly electronic) may be produced offshore, but the design and specifications (MTBF etc) are developed by US engineers and verified by the same. The product testing is done by qualified engineers right here in the ol USA.On the other hand, the Chinese are known for "copying" someone else's engineering with little or no regard for patent rights. If you think this is the right way to go about doing business, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. If you think the Chinese have anything but "their best interests" in mind, then I've got some Chinese drywall to sell you.The latest "electronics craze" is just the latest in a long list of Chinese attempts to penetrate the US market. Years ago I represented (dealer for) a long standing manufacturer of sport fishing boats (Bertram Yachts, Inc). The Chinese bought several old hulls from the US marketplace, hauled them to China, and popped molds from them. Even though the hull form was the same (copied), the boats never performed the same as the original. They never figured out the seven different "layup schedules" Bertram used to produce their boats. The copies (Chinese) experienced hull failures beyond belief and when the Chinese tried to "beef them up/make the hulls stronger" the boats wouldn't perform because they weighed too much. The owners of the Chinese copies suffered greatly when it came time to try to sell their "Bertram Knockoffs".I think you're making a mistake of equating American Industry "Partnering" with Chinese manufacturers to what I see as a bunch of enterprising importers going to China and having the Chinese build a cheap welder which can be sold a low price.I laugh every time I see the "bench testing" done with some of the Chinese imports. Compare that to the testing done by such companies as Lincoln, Miller, Hypertherm, etc, etc.All the aforementioned companies will gladly provide a list of the qualified engineers (electrical, welding, etc) that they have on their payroll. Ask one of the importers for the credentials for their "experts".I'm not saying the cheap Chinese imports don't have a place. For the hobbiest welder who just wants to stick two pieces of metal together, they may be OK. That's most likely the same guy who will never become really "proficient" at tig welding because he's not likely to make the committment to putting in the time to become good, just as he cut corners in his machine purchase.Just don't spend your time telling us oldtimers that your little Chinese POS welder is "Just as good as the big names". We're not falling for it.PS: Afterthought.Much of what you see coming down the pike in the "Consumer Welding Marketplace" is a direct result of science/engineering being developed for the industrial workplace. Call it "trickle down" if you wish. What industrial equipment is being developed by the Chinese?Last edited by SundownIII; 06-09-2010 at 03:05 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I've got something to worry about when you, of all people, call me narrow minded!Like most people who pontificate on the evils of a particular brand, it is likely you have never used one of these import machines. Why would you, you already have perfectly good name brand welders.At least I have used and own both the import and North American welders.I got into the same sort of discussion recently with a couple of club friends who own Vincent Motorcycles. All of us in were in agreement that Vincent built a great bike, but these two insisted that the Norton Commando was a POS. I happen to own a very nice 850 Commando and enjoy riding it just as much as I do riding a Vincent.After much discussion it became apparent that neither of them had ever ridden a Norton Commando much less owned one, yet they knew them to be vibratory piles of junk that handle terribly. Actually the Commando won the 750 production class at the IOM back in the day, so they do handle and they are also about the only British bike that doesn't vibrate at speed (rubber mounted engine)So much for the knowledge of the uninitiated.Until my import welder gives me reason to complain, all I can do is compare the way it works to my other machines and other welders I've used. On that score it does OK.Time will tell whether I'm happy with it in the long run.If I was in the position of purchasing a welder strictly for business use, I might go with a Lincoln or a Miller just to avoid the kind of conversation we are having.
Reply:Originally Posted by worntorn"The most risky thing a person can do, is buy a low volume, small time, no-name anything."I can't agree with your statement.I bought two Vincent Rapides a few years back. Vincent was a low volume small time motorcycle manufacturer that went broke in the 1950s. From what you have stated, I should have a near worthless machine with no parts availability. Just the opposite is true, any part is available for these bikes and they have been one of the best investments I have ever made, more than doubling in value over the last few years.On top of that the value of these machines never dropped when things were really falling apart a couple of years ago.Generalizations generally don't work!Is your handle Makoman related to another relatively low volume manufacturer that went broke, the Maico motorcycle?I bought a 490 last year, I'm pretty sure it will be a good investment too.As for GM and Chrysler, the only reason you can still get parts is that the American and Canadian tax payers were forced to buy shares in these bankrupt companies to the tune of approximately 50 billion dollars. At the time we bought the shares these companies had no net assets and tens of billions in net liabilities plus were losing money on a massive scale. No investor in their right mind would pay money for shares in companies like that, so our Governments did it for us.GM has a 17 billion dollar unfunded pension liability alone. Where this will all end up no one knows, but I would not count on a perfect supply of parts for these vehicles into the foreseeable future.I feel better about continued parts availability for my Everlast welder than I do my Dodge truck.
Reply:Makoman1860, Thanks for emphasizing my main point. It's not USA vs China, it's the lincoln vs the everlast. Time may tell us that the everlast welders are really great machines. But I believe time has shown that Lincolns are really great machines now. I have an older Lincoln mig, I have welded miles of wire through this welder. It's never failed to work when I hit the power switch. That in turn is my overall goal. Buy a tig machine with the required power output, with the few features, that's durable, and fits my budget.
Reply:" The history of toolmakes says that what will survive the passage of time, is what is durable, and plentiful enough to warrant endless support. "That generalization doesn't work either.Here is my milling machine, a 1973 Kearney and Trecker, built in Milwaukee . They made beautiful milling machines for decades and probably more of them than any other company, but sadly they went out of business in the early 90s.Parts are pretty tough to find for it.As far as politics go, it's pretty tough to discuss GM and Chrysler without at least some discussion and understanding of what has occurred there via tax payer involvment.I don't really consider it a political discussion as in I like this party or that party, it really has nothing to do with that, it is just history and recent history at that. Attached Imageswww.millingparts.comWe buy all the time from these guys for our 1930s Cincinnati mills, like i said, if the machines were durable and enough made, the demand will warrant companies to exist just for service. ohmthis, I think your going the right way, sometimes taking the "path less traveled" can be fun, but not when the destination is the goal.
Reply:thanks for the link , I will make an enquiry.Unfortunately they don't list my machine even though it is one of the later models made by K+T.I'm looking for an arbor support for it, haven't been able to find one yet. Other than that, fortunately for me, the machine works as new.I have a couple of other machines made by manufacturers that are long gone. So far I have been able to make any part needed. My point is that there really aren't any hard and fast rules as to which make will survive and which won't, which will have a complete parts inventory available forever and which will be like my Kearney and Trecker with only some parts available here and there and at generally at huge prices due to the shrinking inventory.I agree the thread starter that with the inverter welders vs transformer, whether it is import or N.A, there is greater potential for costly repairs due to burned electrical components. Perhaps that is as good a reason as any to keep the investment small. If a $500 import welder fries after a few years, it isn't the end of the world to replace it. If your 4K Dynasty goes bang after a few years, you are more or less stuck paying whatever to get it functioning again.Not many people can make or repair circuit boards!I have read that the cost of circuit boards for the Lincoln and Miller inverters is prohibitive. Not sure about the Everlast.
Reply:Hey guys,As an 'ol timer(kinda like SundownIII), we do at times get a bit crochety, irritated, vociferous, & adamant regarding everything from welding equipment to coffee. It's our "old school" heritage & weaning into adulthood being guided by those who understood quality comes from individual desire to excel & the necessary tools/equipment to attain that level.Ok...my personal goal throughout my career is to always produce quality first & the ability to produce to maintain the end result.....PROFIT. That profit allows me to expand, maintain a level of comfort, & not depend on anyone other than myself to have a good lifestyle. Sometimes, I found I could reduce initial outlays by reducing my investment with less expensive equipment to determine if I could maintain a production profit level. A production environment will test any equipments' longevity(PLEASE excuse the pun) as to reliability. If the equipment failed within a short span, it was evident that a more costly investment was dictated. Not hard to figger out. All my equipment was purchased used, well-kept, & tested. I like my Millers although the Lincoln at my employer was a rugged bear that never failed.And so, to support SundownsIII's statement of "long term" & "cost of ownership", I decided to set up my own evaluation project to determine "wise" investments. I purchased my 1st import(SG MIG) over 4yrs ago at a very reasonable price. It worked well & after 9 mos., I purchased another unit of same mfg.(TIG). It also worked superbly. Then I got an inexpensive import SMAW DC unit for my mobile unit, more as a consumable because of some of the harsh conditions it would be subject to & I wasn't too concerned if it took a dump. Surprisingly, they all are still functioning & making me money.So, here's the gist.... with each use of those imports, every dime that was made(profit) was put into an individual small cigar box & not touched. I wanted to see how much earnable $$$ these would produce. I never touched those $$$. The MIG was #1 with over 8K, the TIG stands at 6.5K, & the SMAW holds 2.5K. I did this so if one of them decided to take a crap, I could replace it with another Miller with what it had earned. Simple, eh?On the down side, last year I purchased another import 60A plasma cutter for a job that entailed cutting (1700) 12"W X 72"L X 18ga sheetmetal shelves to be shortened. The ends had to also be cut to be re-welded on.....that's 3400'. In addition, another project from the same company was cutting a wrong-located 4" tab on a .250 bracket.....(750) of them. Nice $$$.... It went into another cigar box. Just after finishing those (2) jobs, I had a small cutting job with some 16ga...... GUESS WHAT!!! POOF!!! Yup....it died.Soooooo......I opened the cigar box......ordered a new TD Cutmaster52. No more imports with plasma cutters. Anyway, the moral of the story is that you can try the imports, determine if they will serve you needs, & justify to yourself the value of the investment. The importer did have the UPS pick it up for a return as it was under warranty. When it comes back......CRAIGSLIST!Just wanted to provide some food-for-thought....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Generalizations generally don't work!
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1PT225 = $1,976.00http://www.weldingmart.com/item/Lincoln_Electric/1053Everlast 250EX= $1,599.99$377.00 difference
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIworntorn,I think your last post points up the difference in thinking between you and me.[b]To a guy using his equipment to produce income[b], the initial cost of a machine is only one (and oftentimes not the most important) consideration. He's looking for capability, durability, and the ability to get the machine back in service if he has a problem. He's found that "cheap" is often very costly when he's working to a deadline and his equipment takes a "lunch break".
Reply:ITW's first obligation is to its shareholders. ITW is the parent company of miller. they have, at least according to information in their investor relations site, a division of miller electric in beijing. they have two additional facilities in other parts of china which i will not endeavor to spell without checking. just as the corporation has a duty to their shareholders in the form of stock price increase or a quarterly dividend so do you have an obligation to do what is best for you and those close to you and stand back from the politics of geopolitical change. if someone wants to wave the flag in condemnation of your purchase, well, let them. frankly i am glad to see another company on the horizon, it can only be good for me. the key phrase here is good for me. miller and lincoln have enjoyed a circumstance known in the business world as a duopoly. this is good for them and bad for the consumer. so if you feel the welder will do the job for you then buy it. i tried one out at a LWS and it seemed fine to me. i use a 200 SD in the field, if it blew up and i needed a replacement in a hurry i would buy an everlast. they have a pretty good site with a lot of happy customers. good luck
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallYour counter-examples fail because they were NOT "no name". The Vincents were the absolute top-of-the line and well known for it. Even their aluminium alloy is impressive and surprisingly hard. Their engine was aircraft quality, demonstrated by its use in the Picador drone.Maico were also premium machines. Both makes were small VOLUME, not "small time", and featured in the cycle press of the day as examples of quality and excellence. Fine bikes, no comparison to some throwaway welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by worntornthanks for the link , I will make an enquiry.Unfortunately they don't list my machine even though it is one of the later models made by K+T.I'm looking for an arbor support for it, haven't been able to find one yet. Other than that, fortunately for me, the machine works as new.
Reply:"Precision TIG 225 and PowerTig 250EX are completely different unitstry to compare apples to apples" Agreed, But I'm looking at the power output per dollar first then looking at features, kit included, and warranty/service. I don't know much about Everlast and sorry guys, but it takes time and good service to get that reputation! Will I spend too much for my welder? Maybe, but who's going to know but me. "What about those of us who dont use it for Income you and Ed blast me all the time im a hoby welder that maybe burns 12-16" inches of weld a month spread out over a year. same with the plasma i may use it a ton 1 month and not use the damn thing for another 4 months." I'm not a professional welder, and I'm not getting into welding as a career. I'm an industrial electrician, and I only buy ultra quality electrical tools. I haven't bought a pair of kleins, dikes, strippers (both small and large}, insulated screw drivers,and fluke meters....Why, because I spend the money the first time. I may run more weld than you, or less, but I feel that i will be able to walk out in the shop, fire up the welder, and run a mile long bead 15 years from now. Or better yet, my son will walk out there and weld on the same machine!!!Last edited by ohmthis; 06-09-2010 at 10:06 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by EVERLASTPrecision TIG 225 and PowerTig 250EX are completely different unitstry to compare apples to apples
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireHoly smokes worntorn, youve got a universal miller there. From the pic it looks like a #2 or #3 with a powered vertical head.Heres the deal, the column is the same on all K&T mills in the mill size (dovetail type) so an overarm support from any plain horizontal miller from the 50s (Milwaukee mills) forward should fit. Start calling the used machinery dealers now, because sometimes plain millers were used for cheap HBMs and squaring machines by tool and die shops and the overarms were never used.While youre at it, check to see if they have an indexing drive for the end of the table which will allow proper cutting of helical gears, generating worm wheels, worms , etc.The only thing that should be hard to find is control electrics (special GE parts) and things for the swivel table. Ive never seen one that new, it was very expensive in the day.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by ohmthis"Precision TIG 225 and PowerTig 250EX are completely different unitstry to compare apples to apples" Agreed, But I'm looking at the power output per dollar first then looking at features, kit included, and warranty/service. I don't know much about Everlast and sorry guys, but it takes time and good service to get that reputation! Will I spend too much for my welder? Maybe, but who's going to know but me. "What about those of us who dont use it for Income you and Ed blast me all the time im a hoby welder that maybe burns 12-16" inches of weld a month spread out over a year. same with the plasma i may use it a ton 1 month and not use the damn thing for another 4 months." I'm not a professional welder, and I'm not getting into welding as a career. I'm an industrial electrician, and I only buy ultra quality electrical tools. I haven't bought a pair of kleins, dikes, strippers (both small and large}, insulated screw drivers,and fluke meters....Why, because I spend the money the first time. I may run more weld than you, or less, but I feel that i will be able to walk out in the shop, fire up the welder, and run a mile long bead 15 years from now. Or better yet, my son will walk out there and weld on the same machine!!!
Reply:i have been looking in to get a everlast 250ex as well as a miller dynusty 200dx syncrow wave200/250there are alot of ponits to think about with the import vs miller/licoln resale value: the miller wins here. but only time will tell. remember the ta 185? when they were relesed they cost 1500$ now ppl like them and for the same welder is 2700$ maybe everlast will be the same?longjevity: most likely miller here but will the cost of a miller be offse tby the low cost to relapce a import?service cost: i think a miller borad cost more to replace then a whole everlast welder.and the board is porbluy made in china any way.specs: if everlast lives up to the specs they clam it would have the 200dx beat in almost every catagory.i still havent decided on what im going to buy but as a hobbyist its hard to pony up the big $$$ fo a made mostly in the usa welder. but i also dont want to waste the little cash i do have on a POS. it doesnt matter how cheap it is if it wont work right.sorry about my poor spelling-alex
Reply:Originally Posted by runsfromdacopsi have been looking in to get a everlast 250ex as well as a miller dynusty 200dx syncrow wave200/250there are alot of ponits to think about with the import vs miller/licoln resale value: the miller wins here. but only time will tell. remember the ta 185? when they were relesed they cost 1500$ now ppl like them and for the same welder is 2700$ maybe everlast will be the same?longjevity: most likely miller here but will the cost of a miller be offse tby the low cost to relapce a import?service cost: i think a miller borad cost more to replace then a whole everlast welder.and the board is porbluy made in china any way.specs: if everlast lives up to the specs they clam it would have the 200dx beat in almost every catagory.i still havent decided on what im going to buy but as a hobbyist its hard to pony up the big $$$ fo a made mostly in the usa welder. but i also dont want to waste the little cash i do have on a POS. it doesnt matter how cheap it is if it wont work right.sorry about my poor spelling-alex
Reply:A point on resale value:Resale values are typically concerns of guys who tend not to stay long in business. People who use the machine until the last fizzle is squeezed from will not be concerned much about resale. Depreciation and capital gains typically take care of resale issues.Though, not to make light of the legitimate reasons to be concerned about resale value, I can say that typically most resale values tend to hover around the wholesale cost, I've noticed on anything, depending upon condition/use of course. But, if you pay 3x's the amount for a machine, ANY resale will be higher than the amount paid for the lesser machine.To get a true "picture" of resale, you must figure % of original cost, not the raw dollar amount to get a true perspective or resale. If you want to use your welder like a bank account, concerned about reselling it to "turn" some quick money, then you have made a poor investment regardless of what brand you buy.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Lugweld, after reading your post I realized that I have never sold a tool, only bought more and more for the last 40 years. I intend to keep doing that until I can no longer use them, or fall off the perch.I think that is because as tradesmen we value the tool and it's usefulness far more than any money it could bring in a sale. Afterall, that is why we traded away the cash for it in the first place!As far as the import guys being just "specs" as described by Makoman, I wouldn't worry about being a "spec" especially if you are a profitable one.Lincoln Electric Corp. lost money in three of four quarters last year and posted a pretty small profit in the fourth. This goes back to the point I made earlier, giants have been crashing all around us for several years now. As an avid follower of business and economic happenings, I don't see much safety in size alone, in fact size and tenure seem to bring an almost automatic decadence to many companies.
Reply:Originally Posted by worntornYou came looking for advice and about all I can really say in the end is that I did buy one of these Everlast welders and it is very nice to use. In addition I dealt with the company for some accessories and they were very much on top of things. I couldn't ask for more.As far as buying this welder or that welder, there are probably a great many machines out there that will do the trick and you likely won't go wrong with any of them. You were concerned about the price difference at the start but that seems to have lost importance provided you can look at the machine and feel it is of high quality. Something tells me that you wouldn't be happy with the Everlast even if it performed perfectly for 100 years, it is more the recognized name brand which you desire.A lot of it seems to come down to personal preference and personal prejudices, bragging rights or whatever,not necessarily logic.If it did I would be riding a new Honda instead of a 60 year old Vincent!
Reply:Originally Posted by ohmthishey guys, I'm looking at getting a new tig. I've been looking at the Lincoln precision tig230 vs the everlast 250ex. I don't really need all of the bells and whistles on the everlast, but it is about $500 cheaper than the best price I can find on the Lincoln. I really want to buy an american product, but the price is pretty hard to overlook. Let's hear advice, NOT bashing!!!
Reply:If you just bought a new custom motorcycle frame what do you want? Do you want a frame made by a certified experienced welder using a Miller,Hobart or Lincoln? Or do you want the frame welded by inexperienced welders using Chinese welding machines???I bought a welding machine made in Sweden one time. Thought it was a good machine . Then it quit working and I found out that the distributor was in New York. When I finally got hold of them they did not seem to know anything. Then I called Sweden and they only spoke swedish.I had to write a letter and then they just said "We are sorry you cannot get the help you need from our distributor in New York.They sent me a wiring diagram. Oh by the way the "distributor" was just one man and a secretary. The Lincoln bought the company and after a year or so discontinued the machines when they found out it had problems.Just Like Harley Davidson buying Buell, then discontinuing them. Big fish EAT little fish.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 06-10-2010 at 10:08 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Mako,I understand your sentiment. But, here's the issue: You aren't aware of the number of units we are moving or where we are moving them to. I am. You make several unfortunate assumptions in that respect...No we aren't any Miller or Lincoln for now, but we are selling units to genuine pros all across the NA continent. That alone makes people mad...or jealous. Many of our customers have welding credentials that would fill a roladex. The predjudices that are inherent in so many people's thinking is that a company like Everlast couldn't possibly produce a machine with quality welding capability or durability, unless it was cloned. That's where they are wrong. We have customers and dealers that are x brand certified repair center or factory trained individuals that have gone through these units themselves, just for a look see. They can't find very many similarities. But they (many more than one, I can assure you) have mentioned that our parts are heavier and better built, with few "proprietary" components. That's their words..not mine. The fact that there are even a few here that are "respected" pros that have bought our machines and have had a satisfactory experience and are willing to face the retribution to say so, ought to speak quite volumes to the thinking man.There is no puffing of the chest. But we do have a quiet, sincere, hope in our company's future and product. I know the conversations I have with customers everyday about how foolish they think this bias is against us...and how they are laughing all the way to the bank and how many of WW have lost credibility in their eyes, once they took the "chance" and found out so many things they were warned about and told about weren't so. We are building our business, one sale at a time, one customer at a time. We still have issues from time to time, but the nature of them is changing. We have growing pains just as any company does, and I am sure we will continue to. But we are never "over confident" or resting on our laurels. We are doing our thing, expanding our dealer network, working on customer support, and providing a great product at a reasonable price. No, as I just said, it still isn't perfect. I expect that we will still have a dissatisfied customer here or there. I don't want it to be that way, and we try to do everything we can to prevent it, but if we have 99.5% satisfaction rate, that would mean that there'd be a handful of customers a month that weren't and would likely come to a forum like this to complain. The Miller, Lincoln and other threads exist here for that reason as well. Very few customers come to any of these threads to solely sing the praise of their welder, but rather to find help, or advice to fix or operate it. We have production plans, with new units in the works set to debut for a couple of years in advance now. We aren't thinking about the here and now only, but aiming our sites for the years to come. The fact is, prejudice against our product or company is not going to be overcome by doing a good job or to provide excellent customer support...or to have customers volunteer their praises or criticisms...Nothing can overcome this kind of prejudice...I think we have proven that already...We have guys saying " If you can do so in so...then you'd be a better welder company"....So, we do so in so, then they say well....that's all good and all but you need to do so in so now...So we do it...Or they'll say, you don't have any "real" customers...so we get "real" customers...Then they discount the "real" customers...The truth is that a prejudiced person will pretty much always keep their prejudice, without divine intervention...and that is the saddest part of it all.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:If you're looking to save money I'd go with a Thermal Arc 185. The Chinese units are tempting for their price point but there is no shop down the road that can work on them. There also aren't readily available parts for the machines (not talking about consumables). It should throw up a giant red flag that when these machines are "repaired" under warranty that they are actually replaced. Why because there is no service center or techs in the USA. Chinese products thus far also have a short life cycle so 5 or 6 years from now without a warranty you might have an expensive brick on your hands. Yes Lincoln and Miller could both fail, but guess what there are enough of their products in use that parts and support will not be an issue. I'd be more concerned about the longevity of Chinese manufacturers.
Reply:Rob,We do have electrical engineer techs on staffs and also paid consultants and willing service centers( we have had many contact us wanting to when they see how simple our units are to repair.). The reason they are replaced is because the factory itself repairs the units under our contract with them. They go back into our warranty stocks and the cost of repair/exchange is very low. It makes better financial sense and makes MUCH quicker and simpler service for the customer.You make some statements concerning the lifespan of Chinese products...unknown to you that all the major manufacturers use some chinese components in their products, but assemble them here and incorporate them throughout their product line. Its a very wide known fact too that any replacement board on a Major name brand equivalent welders after the unit is out of warranty costs more than our entire welder. What documentation do you have on the lifespan of Chinese made products???What you are promoting is second hand disinformation at best.FYI, there is exactly ONE service and support center listed in the US on TA's website...The unit you are promoting. I know for sure that my local welding service center doesn't "support" thermal arc, only blue, red, and yellow.As for "expensive" repairs....only the labor is expensive, no more so than any one elses...The electronic parts are common,name brand off the shelf parts, and not specially manufactured chips or components that are proprietary only in nature as with other companies...The average cost of repair of one of our out of warranty welders is much less than anyone's when it comes to parts.Last edited by lugweld; 06-10-2010 at 11:06 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomIf you just bought a new custom motorcycle frame what do you want? Do you want a frame made by a certified experienced welder using a Miller,Hobart or Lincoln? Or do you want the frame welded by inexperienced welders using Chinese welding machines???I bought a welding machine made in Sweden one time. Thought it was a good machine . Then it quit working and I found out that the distributor was in New York. When I finally got hold of them they did not seem to know anything. Then I called Sweden and they only spoke swedish.I had to write a letter and then they just said "We are sorry you cannot get the help you need from our distributor in New York.They sent me a wiring diagram. Oh by the way the "distributor" was just one man and a secretary. The Lincoln bought the company and after a year or so discontinued the machines when they found out it had problems.Just Like Harley Davidson buying Buell, then discontinuing them. Big fish EAT little fish.
Reply:AMF:Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT |
|
发表于 2021-8-31 23:36:33