anyone try tig aluminum w\o HF

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i have an old weldnpower lincoln portable. i have a lift arc tig torch and was wondering if anyone has tried to weld without hf and liftarc? i know some newer inverters you can weld aluminum on dc. just wondering if it can be done with my machine. i can seem to find a hf with remote that looks like it would work. thanks, Hammer
Reply:That's not an inverter machine you have there.  If you want to use AC to tig weld, you will need the continuous high frequency to keep the arc going.  You can attempt welding the aluminum in DC, as there is no need for continuous high frequency in that mode.  Have fun.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:i do realize i dont have an inverter. is it possible to use dc on aluminum? would it be straight or reverse? should i use certainium tungsten? ( i think thats the name...lol) i'm a pipe and construction welder. havnt done alot of aluminum in a while. dont want to sound like a dumbass, and dont want to waste time and material if its not possible ya know. thanksLast edited by Hammerwelder; 06-28-2010 at 04:00 PM.
Reply:Dc alum tig usually requires helium and is useful for thicker sections. While I'm sure Billy Mac will chime in that he's done it, almost everyone else uses AC because it's way more practical rather than waste time trying to use a process that doesn't do well (or work at all) to do what most are trying to accomplish.I don't think you will be able to accomplish what you want, with what you have most likely..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW,Billy Mac lives in a different atmosphere/stratasphere than most of us.  Either that, or he's had his head in the "plume" too long.Bet he'd be good at writing "science fiction" stories.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Since you have the machine, set it in DC negative, hook up your torch and gas adpater and experiment with it.  If you try it in DC positive, turn the amps way down so you don't melt the collet when tungsten goes 'poof'.  That was my experience with it anyways.Those of us who have real AC tigs also have everything we need to weld aluminum in DC (except the helium which some have and most dont) and yet we still weld it in AC instead of DC.  That has to tell you something there, cause those of us without the helium could easily get it if we wanted it.  We are happy using AC, or at least I am.  If I thought there was a real usefulness to welding aluminum in DC, I would have been doing it a long time ago.  I did some experimenting and concluded it wasn't worth spending any money on.Last edited by DesertRider33; 06-28-2010 at 06:02 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Building a HF arc starter/stabilizer is not near as hard as some make it out to be or expensive as buying one.http://www.casano.com/projects/hfstart/index.htmlI got inspiration for the one I built from that website, ultimately I didn't like his setup (couldn't get enough HV from the ignition coil I had, plus his diagram is wrong but if you look at the pics of his finished products he's got it right).  Mine uses an ignition coil out of a broken Hotsy pressure washer (same as the old fuel oil furnaces used), transformer dual-E ferrite core from a 480V sodium bulb transformer and a couple of 500 pf 30 kv caps.  Have at least 10 hrs welding time on it and it works great.  Next I need to add an argon flow control solenoid to my setup.
Reply:i had heard about the helium and helium mix gasses for aluminum, but all i have is pure argon and dont have the money to spend for more tanks. been pretty rough since i had back surgery. seems like i'm getting black balled because of it even though i'm fine so i'm thinking i might have to go on my own full time time. that was always the plan, but i was working makeing good money and welding on the side for myself. but everything happend so quick with getting ousted by my employer after they found out about my back problem. now i am just trying to figure out what i can do. i have alot of lakes and boats around me so i was hoping i could do aluminum right with what i had. but if i cant do a perfect job on it i wont do it. i'll just have to figure out how to get a real machine to do what i need to do. when i bought it years ago i thought it would be the right one, but like i said, i cant find the right HF unit. thanks for all your help
Reply:Sorry about your job situation.  Seems many have fallen into similar misfortune these days.  If you can make a go of it on your own, it can be quite good.  Most of us are just surviving these days though.  Maybe in a couple years it will turn around.Unfortunately, the portable ACDC tigs that can be run off a generator are inverters and rather expensive.  About the cheapest you can get away with is the Miller Diversion 165 or 180 or the Hobart version of same.  I think it's called Easy Tig, or something like that.  My friend uses a Diversion 165 powered from his 8500 watt Bobcat 225 for mobile tig.  He likes it.  They cost about $1500, or thereabouts.  They are quite new, 2010 first year, so not likely to find them used just yet.  You may be able to pick up a used EconoTIG, but I don't know how high you'd be able to run it from a generator.   Ideally, you'd want something like a Dynasty 200 or Thermal Arc 185 or 200 ACDC.  I use a TA185 for mobile tig as well as in the shop.  Very happy with it.  They go for about $2000-2500 for the TA185 with tig kit.  The Dynasty is quite a bit more money, but can also run on 110v power as well as 3-phase.  The TA is single phase 220v+ only.Another way to go would be to upgrade your engine drive to something newer with tig capability, such as a Trailblazer or Ranger.  You'd still need the HF box to AC tig with though.   There was one particular model of Trailblazer that was made some time I think in the 1980's that had built-in HF for AC tig.  It was one of the bigger Trailblazers from that era, like the 44G or something of that nature.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:i would like to get the dinesty. they are nice, i've used them before. i had a chance a while back to buy a 300 for 2g's, but the guy was a shady bastard. worst off was he was a superviser where i worked, so if i had a problem with it i would have just been screwed one way or another. i've looked at the econo tigs and diversions. as soon as i can swing it i will get something on that line probably. for the aluminum tig it would be a shop thing anyway. either here or there. i was just kinda thinking what my options were right here right now. i also have 2 migs but in my opinion they are both under powered anyway. the one is a licoln 100hd. definitly under powered. the other is a millermatic 120, whitch puts out 170 amps, but its still border line. if i could find a spoolgun to run off of it and put .023 in it it might be alright, but i dont think they have a spoolgun that would run off that machine. i might be wrong, i've really never looked, but i wouldnt think it would because it doesnt have the spoolgun receptical like the 180's and up. i know i can do the liner and that, but my experiance is that its not worth the money. maybe for someone who wants to dink around in the garage, but not for a serious welder.
Reply:If it's strictly for shop use theres any number of older transformer tigs available cheap used. Several here have gotten sweet deals on used Miller 330 A/BP's often for as little as $500. You just need the juice to run them. Steve here (7A749) sold Zap and a few others their 330's at good prices. I've seen used Syncro 180's and 200's go for $1100 or so as well, even a few Syncro 250's for a few hundred more. Lots more machine than the Econotigs and Diversions at almost the same money..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I agree with DSW.  If this is just for the shop and you have 100 amps of 220v single phase service available, look on Craig's List or see what others on the forum have for sale in the older ac/dc transformer machines.  A 330 Miller, old Syncrowave, 300 Idealarc Lincoln, Dialarc HF, etc can be had for a good price and are fine machines for using in the shop.You should be able to run .023 solid wire in your migs without a spool gun.  Aluminum without a spool gun will be difficult at best.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:yeah, i wouldnt even try aluminum mig without a push pull, or a spool gun. i'll be getting a machine of some sort, just not sure when or what. thanks for the replys