varieties of 7018

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ive been getting hobart rod at tractor supply. the 7018 has been working good forme. i bought some lincoln 7018 (3/32)and didnt notice that it was marked AC. I started using it and couldnt find a sweet spot between 70 and 100amps . i tried it on dc and it just wasnt working the same as the hobart. it looked cold at the toe, or lumpy beads, i had trouble even seeing the  puddle. any insight will be appreciated.thx
Reply:I have run into problems also. I have been using Hobart 1/8 7018 from TSC all winter making hot water heaters and other things for the Amish farmers in the area.The other day I went in to pick up some more rod and noticed the logo on the end of the box seemed a little different, looked closer and it said made in USA, the other boxes I had been using all winter were made in Tiawan, went home and opened up the box and it was totally different  from what I had in the other box. The Tiawan stuff was marked "7018", a darker color, and had a coated tip on the rod and I loved it for vertical up. The USA rod was marked "7018-1" a lighter color and didn't flow out near as well.  Also the USA rod if you stick it, when you pull it free the flux pops off about an inch up the rod.Go figure. I always look for the made in the USA stuff it I can find it.  Now what???Trailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:exactly my experience..see fotos..sorry taint cleartop one is the taiwan stuff that runs goodnext is us made dash one , havent tried it but you said it bit..next is us made 7018ac that ran with terrible porosity on the same plate where the taiwan stuff ran goodbottom is the lincoln ac stuff that sucks, made in the usa from usa and imported components...save yer old coathangers we may soon be reduced to gaswelding with them.if we can still get bottles filled here..im afraid we're gonna get into another shootin match and have to throw stones cause only our enemies still make steel...... Attached Images
Reply:I just bought a 60lb box of 7018 from my lws and it was made in tawain and thought geez hope it welds good..guess ill be lucky it wasnt made in usa..a shame though..
Reply:ok, I'm not trying to be a smartass here but do you really think you are going to get a top quality low hydrogen rod from TSC?  To start with they aren't in sealed containers which means that they have been sitting there absorbing moisture the entire time they are on the shelf.  As far as the flux blowing off the end that is usually a sign of handling problems.  I can imagine how the stock boys and shipping for TSC handle rods.  I bought a couple of varying boxes of the 7018's that TSC had awhile back just to see how they ran, and they were complete crap the Taiwan rods.  I you are gonna complain about american made rods atleast use a decent rod to start with in your comparison.  Try a Lincoln Excalibur, Murex, or a Hobart brothers if you want a truly good rod.  The point is that you aren't gonna find top quality rods at a chain farm supply store.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:I buy the Hobart 7018-1 from one of the local welding suppliers and they run acceptably, and much, much better than the Radnor 7018 at my local Airgas, which I won't buy anymore after trying enough of it to convince me it's pure junk.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I buy Lincoln 7018AC and it runs well for me.  Notice, I didn't say the same.  It makes a bead that looks colder and the flux is darker and harder to remove.  The bead even looks darker than Hobart or Canadian Liquid Air rod makes.I got used to them and use them for my Sparkler [a Thunderbolt in drag   ] and the SA-200.  They keep me happy but I don't do code work at my shop.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Hammack_Welding. The rod I'm using is Hobart, it's sealed in 10lb. plastic containers, or in a 25lb. box that is sealed in plastic on the inside.I have tried the other rods you mentioned and the Lincoln Excalibur was the worst of the bunch some of the others were acceptable but none I tried ran as nice vertical uphill as the Taiwan made Hobart 7018. I know it's a shame as I always try to buy Made in USA if there is a choice.Trailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:i really like excalibur 7018s. i also like esab atom arc. we did manage to find a 7018 that i know very little about. its made by a company called blue demon and id imagine its chinese or something. comes in 5 pound plastic cartons and shrink wrapped. this stuff really runs good if you throw it in the oven for awhile. i personally use mig for my low hydrogen welding whenever possible but i do have some sealed cans of esab rod. a shocker for me i found some rods the other day i bought like 5 years ago. forney 6013 3/32 and man they were nice. i said im gonna buy some lincoln 6013s and tried to weld with them and those forney rods blew the lincolns away in my book. i couldnt believe it.only thing worse than an ugly woman is an ugly weld
Reply:nitesky i think you've described how the Lincoln 7018ac is running , but i cant agree it runs good. cold lumpy bead and thick dark hard slag .I feel better knowing my 5# box box is probably not defective.Mr Hammack, i completely recognize that the 5# box ofLincoln i bought may be unacceptably wrapped for code work, but i weld mainly shelves and shhiitthooks..i have been using up a 50# box of excalibur  mr for months which is stored open in my boiler room, which i had a contractor leave on my jobsite after 4 hours of  work because"it is wet now" and while the rod is not acceptable for code work, im not seeing any cracks in my schihitthooks..re: the Hobart stuff , no question the taiwan stuff runs better for me  than the us made..
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadnitesky i think you've described how the Lincoln 7018ac is running , but i cant agree it runs good. cold lumpy bead and thick dark hard slag .I feel better knowing my 5# box box is probably not defective.Mr Hammack, i completely recognize that the 5# box ofLincoln i bought may be unacceptably wrapped for code work, but i weld mainly shelves and shhiitthooks..i have been using up a 50# box of excalibur  mr for months which is stored open in my boiler room, which i had a contractor leave on my jobsite after 4 hours of  work because"it is wet now" and while the rod is not acceptable for code work, im not seeing any cracks in my schihitthooks..re: the Hobart stuff , no question the taiwan stuff runs better for me  than the us made..
Reply:low hydrogen electrodes can be redried. once according to code but who knows really how many times. ive used my share of 7018s that have never seen an oven. never had a cracking problem. the low hydrogen will reduce the possibility of cracking though. it will also allow you to use less preheat compared to non low hydrogen electrodes. they run better when stored in an oven.only thing worse than an ugly woman is an ugly weld
Reply:Originally Posted by shortarcHammack_Welding. The rod I'm using is Hobart, it's sealed in 10lb. plastic containers, or in a 25lb. box that is sealed in plastic on the inside.I have tried the other rods you mentioned and the Lincoln Excalibur was the worst of the bunch some of the others were acceptable but none I tried ran as nice vertical uphill as the Taiwan made Hobart 7018. I know it's a shame as I always try to buy Made in USA if there is a choice.
Reply:+1 on Hammack's notice of the 'sealed' containers.Any container EXCEPT a factory sealed hermetic tin/can is NOT a sealed container.Check the fine print on the Hobart packages.  They pretty much say that you have to bake the rods before use.  From Lincoln document c210 :A relatively high amount of moisture in low hydrogenelectrode causes visible external porosity in addition tointernal porosity. It also may cause excessive slag fluidity,a rough weld surface, difficult slag removal, and cracking.IIRC David R did some experiments with 'old' 7018 versus fresh-out-of-the-oven 7018.  Baked 7018 wins every time.Also re-read Duane's found/salvaged 7018 thread.  I posted in that one as well, pretty much all the 'textbook' problems of old/wet/damp/exposed 7018 were what he found.  Baked, 'fresh' 7018 wins every time.Use the right tool (rod) for the job and use it 'right'.  For 7018, that means you have to use it fresh from the sealed can/tin/hermetic-pack or baked/re-baked properly.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:i agree completely that anything other than a factory hermetically sealed package will absorb moisture with negative implications. the point im tryingtomake is i  found the old excalibur and the taiwanese stuff, both of which were undisputably  not stored right, were burning good, by my criteria, and the other stuff regardless of its point oif origin was burning badly.
Reply:Ok I didn't want to start a arguing match about whether the rods needed to be baked or not.What I stated applied to all of the rod number and brands I have used under the same circumstances. Hammack_Welding. The present welder I am using is a Trailblazer 302, and it don't like Excalibur. My previous welder a Ranger 8 loved it. Go figure.  Also the Ranger never was that happy with 6010. The Trailblazer loves it.Last edited by shortarc; 04-02-2009 at 07:12 PM.Trailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:I buy Hobart 418 in TIN'S only. Tried Excalabur and do not like it. TIN'S only is how I buy my 7018, and it goes straight to the oven after it is open.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Tozzi,I too like the 418..Good rod.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by El_Lloydeoi really like excalibur 7018s. i also like esab atom arc. we did manage to find a 7018 that i know very little about. its made by a company called blue demon and id imagine its chinese or something. comes in 5 pound plastic cartons and shrink wrapped. this stuff really runs good if you throw it in the oven for awhile. i personally use mig for my low hydrogen welding whenever possible but i do have some sealed cans of esab rod. a shocker for me i found some rods the other day i bought like 5 years ago. forney 6013 3/32 and man they were nice. i said im gonna buy some lincoln 6013s and tried to weld with them and those forney rods blew the lincolns away in my book. i couldnt believe it.
Reply:Lincoln Excalubur 7018 for DC  Nice soft quiet arc, but it digs in real good.  Puddle easy to control for a hacker like me.AND THE 10LB CAN IS COOLI really like it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Plus the color goes well with my beer cans Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:samm you sold me, im gonna stop at the lws and get one of them...i burnt some 7014 yesterday and it ran pretty good but taint quite  as good as 7018...i love lifting the hood to find a 6 inch length of slag starting to curl off for me...the 7014 gave me a nice bead but still gotta at a minimum power brush it...and it de[posits alot more metal tha 7018...
Reply:I used to buy Airco 7018MR (MR stands for moisture resistant coating).  Since I carried them in the plastic tubes on my truck I figured the MR couldn't hurt.  One time when I picked up a new 50lb box at LWS, I noticed in small print: mfg by Lincoln Electric.  I asked the clerk about it.  Yup, Lincoln had bought out Airco's rod production part of the business.  I mentioned I didn't like Lincoln 7018 rods, clerk told me Lincoln had to keep the Airco production formula for a period of time.  Months go by, after I picked up one box, I immediately noticed the change in the rods.  Called the LWS, yup, Lincoln had changed the formula.  LWS gave me a 10 lb tube of Lincoln Excalibur to try.Hobart 7018's are great.  ESAB Atom Arc 7018 is all I buy (best out there in my opinion).  Lincoln Excalibur SUCK. I have run them on my SA 200's, my Lincoln TM300/300, and my Miller AEAD 200LE.  Don't matter.  Lincoln 7018's suck.  I do like Lincoln 5P+ and buy them in 50lb containers in 3/32 & 1/8.
Reply:pa,The "R" is the part of the classification that stands for moisture resistant, per the AWS A5.1/A5.5 naming specs.  Example: E7018-1 H4RBut the manufacturers' product names seem to put "MR" for "moisture resistant" in the product name.  Example: Lincoln Excaliber 7018-1 MR, which is an E7018-1 H4R  electrode.And the R is just that, resistant.  It extends the 'allowable' use time out of the sealed can or from the oven from about 4 hours for the 'regular' rods to about 9 hours for the R rods.  That lets a batch of R rods be used for an entire 8 hour shift, while the other rods are supposed to be supplied to a shift twice.From Lincoln:"All low hydrogen electrodes should be stored properly,even those with an “R” suffix. Standard EXX18 electrodesshould be supplied to welders twice per shift. Moistureresistant types may be exposed for up to 9 hours."Specific code/work requirements may specify different exposure limits.The 'old' rods may have run fine without being baked, but if the manufacturer calls out that the rod is only supposed to be used 'fresh from the can or the oven' then that is really the only way it is supposed to be run.  Anything else and you are on your own.And I fully agree that it is annoying when a product that used to work just fine (for you) changes and now doesn't work the same way.  Grrr.Also annoying is that buried fine-print about 'factory fresh' low-hydrogen rods needing to be rebaked before being used.  Like a home/hobby user is going to have a re-bake oven available and a storage oven too.  The only way out then is for the 'small' guy to only get a sealed CAN of rods and use them up fresh out of the can.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I have been using the Lincoln Excaliber and like them ok. I would like to try the Hobart 418, does anyone know of a source on the web for these?Originally Posted by MoonRisepa,The "R" is the part of the classification that stands for moisture resistant, per the AWS A5.1/A5.5 naming specs.  Example: E7018-1 H4RBut the manufacturers' product names seem to put "MR" for "moisture resistant" in the product name.  Example: Lincoln Excaliber 7018-1 MR, which is an E7018-1 H4R  electrode.And the R is just that, resistant.  It extends the 'allowable' use time out of the sealed can or from the oven from about 4 hours for the 'regular' rods to about 9 hours for the R rods.  That lets a batch of R rods be used for an entire 8 hour shift, while the other rods are supposed to be supplied to a shift twice.From Lincoln:"All low hydrogen electrodes should be stored properly,even those with an “R” suffix. Standard EXX18 electrodesshould be supplied to welders twice per shift. Moistureresistant types may be exposed for up to 9 hours."Specific code/work requirements may specify different exposure limits.The 'old' rods may have run fine without being baked, but if the manufacturer calls out that the rod is only supposed to be used 'fresh from the can or the oven' then that is really the only way it is supposed to be run.  Anything else and you are on your own.And I fully agree that it is annoying when a product that used to work just fine (for you) changes and now doesn't work the same way.  Grrr.Also annoying is that buried fine-print about 'factory fresh' low-hydrogen rods needing to be rebaked before being used.  Like a home/hobby user is going to have a re-bake oven available and a storage oven too.  The only way out then is for the 'small' guy to only get a sealed CAN of rods and use them up fresh out of the can.
Reply:anyone familiar with a rod called MG500  ? very expensive.. smoother and less ripples than 7018..darker slag, comes off almost as nice as the taiwanese hobart 7018...
Reply:The best 7018's are the Lincoln Murex and the ESAB Atom Arc bar none.  I prefer the Murex it works better for me out of position and I weld for a living in an ASME certified pressure vessel shop.
Reply:Ive ran so many different brands I don't even give a crap anymore, I get the same welds with radnor that I do with atom arcs vice versa.Miller Maxstar 200 SDPiperliner #10 Gold
Reply:+1 on the whole "sealed container" thing.  would you trust canned food that was put in plastic gladware containers and taped shut?  Probably not.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:+1 on 7018AC sucking A$$.  Almost zero puddle from slag differentiation when run on DC.  I ran them side by side with 7018 Excalibur and couldn't figure out why the puddle was intermittently disappearing.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum