New to me trailer that needs work

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Wel after watching and reading what some of you guys have done to trailers, streching, repairing, and building, I found a trailer that needed work, for cheap. Some one has over loaded it and bent it just behind the tounge and right behind the rear axles. I picked it up in Atlanta and puled it back home, about 1 1/2 hour drive and it pulled lie a dream. Couldnt tell it was behind me. So yesterday i took the bends out of the frame and repaired 2 of the cross members that were really bent. My question to you guys is what do I need to do now with the tounge? I have 2 sticks of 4 inch C channel 1/4 thick and a couple of pieces of C channel 6 inches 1/4 thick. Should I remove the tounge and build a new one or weld to the existine one. I want to mae it wrap around to the front axle. Attached Images
Reply:I had to use th bota for some down preasure on the rear, but the front the weight of the tounge was enough to streaghten once I started heating it. The tounge is made of 5x2 angle 1/4 thick. Its only welded in 2 spots on the frame. Now all this trailer is going to do is pul my garden tractors to the shows. They weigh some where between 6 and 800 lbs. The tag on the trailer says 4000 lbs GVW so ill be in good shape on the weight. It also has 2 brake axles. I have pre made steak pockets that Im going to weld to the side and run a piece of flat stock on tom of them to make a rub rail like on a flat bed trailer, this way I can tie off and where. Attached Images
Reply:Don't worry too much about the tongue.  What you need to do is replace the side rail that was cut off long ago.  Each one of those pieces of angle iron on the sides used to be an upright to support the rail.  I wouldn't even haul a ridin' mower on that frame without an upper rail.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Ok but wouldnt the rub rail give it the same strength? If Ineed to I will put a rail on top. I figured that was one of the reasons it failed, not enough support.
Reply:No.  The upper rail would be about a foot above the deck.  It's the height that give it the strength.  A rub rail will help a little, but prolly not enough.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Ok then I will keep this in mind, seeing that one other person, and the little voice in my head said the same thing. THANK YOU
Reply:Vince, where you at in Upstate SC? Im in Greenville
Reply:Vince:Boostinjdm is quite correct. Your trailer tongue is just fine. The angle iron on it's own without the upper rail failed because of it's lack of strength. I too recommend putting the upper rail back. They call the area I live in Trailer heaven because we have so many trailer manufacturers around here. We get to see them all. The best upper rail seems to be using 2 7/8 " schedule 40 pipe with support at the front welded to the tongue.On yours I would say that 4000lbs with just the angle iron was definitely pushing it way too far.Just my two cents.Glenn.Sign on East Texas payphone: Calls to God 40 cents......it's a local call...
Reply:Glenn  I cant weld pipe, Ive tried and wel lets just say I better stick to flat things. Tig  Im in Pickens just down the road from you. I did notice that all the vertical angle on the right side has been cut off. This will be a real easy fix if I dont have to rebuild the tounge. Just cause Im wondering, is there a reason on at least 1 foot the floor of the trailer? The guy I bought it from pulled a Skiff from Long island to alt on it. He just blocked it and strapped it down. There was no floor in it when he did this and that was what bent the two cross members. Eathier way this is just for the 3 tractors Ill haul to the shows. I have access to a 10k trailer that was behind my truck before I bought it. I bought the truck and my neighbor bought the trailer to pull the bota in the pic. We also use it to pull hay for the horses. Thanks for the info guys, this is why I enjoy reading this site. The help you all give to people.
Reply:Who says you can't weld pipe?    Some 6011 or 6010 rod will do nicely on that job. Clean up the areas around the joints beforehand for best results, and make 'em one bead at a time (in proper order of course). Last edited by tanglediver; 05-08-2011 at 03:39 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Tabgle Lets just say I dont do curves well with the welding stick. Im no welder, this is just something my tractor buddies told me I should learn. So.............................. Im learning!
Reply:I hate fixed upper rails... if it were my trailer this is what I would do... add in a piece under the angle same size as the tounge and tie it into the front suspension mount. Attached Images
Reply:Talked with the fab guy at work that builds the custom fork lifts and he sugested to cut out al the cross members and run a piece of flat stock around the inside of the frame. Then add the  C channel to the underside of the frame and to the back side of the exsisting tounge. Then addd the top rail.
Reply:Originally Posted by Vince_oTalked with the fab guy at work that builds the custom fork lifts and he sugested to cut out al the cross members and run a piece of flat stock around the inside of the frame. Then add the  C channel to the underside of the frame and to the back side of the exsisting tounge. Then addd the top rail.
Reply:BoostinjmdI cut the rest of the old side pieces off last night, ran out of gas on the last one, so Ill be grinding for the next few nights getting ready to put the top rail on lie you and a few PM's have recomended.
Reply:I do not understand why so many of these trailers are built without a channel or angle iron running full length.  In my hometown there was a Massey Ferguson dealer who would sell a package deal with a tractor and a trailer made the same exact way.  Needless to say those trailer bent all to crap!  It seems that so many of these trailers are massed produced as cheep as possible, and people think they are getting a good deal.
Reply:Well I got some more work done on the trailer today. Ground the pieces that I cut off smooth and cut some 2 x 1/4 flat stock to put behind where it was bent. Had a heck of a rain storm, so I didnt get to finish up. I need to clean the rest of the angle before I weld it of corse. I used the 2 inch cause the angle for the floor is 2x2.Anything I should know before I weld it in place? The fish plate is 1/4 thich and the angle is 3/16. Will I be ok just running it with 7018 or should I run the 6011 hen cap with 7018? Im still going between the pipe top rail, cause I have a FREE source for it, or just use the angle. Be a few weeks before I need that. Attached ImagesLearning one rod at a time
Reply:You can always make your life simple. Fab the top rail and verticals seperate from the trailer so you can weld flat rather than overhead. Then clamp the prebuilt ladder to the existing frame and weld. Rather than set the angle in a V like it looks like the originals may have been set them like an L. Cope the leg so it fits around the pipe and have the leg thats welded to the frame come up and nest next to the pipe side. Coping will be simple if you have a drill press and a hole saw the apropriate size to cut the copes with. I'd cut all the verticals to length, then set a stop on the table and clamp the angle in the vise and drill away what I needed to for the cope. I saw some nice carbide tipped holesaws at Lowes recently that would be perfect for this job..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I kind of like the uprights forming a V.  A few reasons come to mind.  Very easy to weld on that way.  A piece of angle set like a V will fit under the lip of the same sized angle used for the top rail.  You can hook tie down straps to them easily.  Angle iron is cheap compared to almost all other shapes.  Last, but not least, no bottom corner to catch your shin on.My name's not Jim....
Reply:BoostinjdmYou like to see it like this, 1st pic ? I dont mind this way, yes it would be easy for me. I also have steak pockets to use too and tie off on. When I get everything welded up, I could throw 4 tractors on and put the pockets where I need them. Heres a piece of the pipe I can get for free. DSW thats a great idea, and I bet I could weld that. Attached ImagesLearning one rod at a time
Reply:Yep, like the pic.  If you cut all your angle iron pieces the same length and weld them to the trailer, you could go through and cope them for the pipe with a grinder afterwards.  Maybe make a pattern that fits the pipe  and trace onto the angle to make things easy and uniform.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Another simple way would be to use some scrap angle iron as a saddle to cradle the pipe and weld along the ends and where the legs meet the pipe. Cut the uprights on an angle to fit the angle iron saddle.Remember basically you are making a truss. The taller the trus is, the more strength it will have with the same size materials. Don't skimp and make the sides too short. Taller is better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWRemember basically you are making a truss. The taller the trus is, the more strength it will have with the same size materials. Don't skimp and make the sides too short. Taller is better.
Reply:Thanks guys I think Im going to skip the pipe top. I think I can weld the angle better.Learning one rod at a time
Reply:Well only worked 8 hrs today so I came home to do some more work on the trailer. Got 2 of the fish plates in on the one side. My heat was too high to start with but I got it after while. I took my time as not to put too much heat into the frame, dont know if it really matted. Not as good as you guys, but Im getting it!  Used 7018 rods Attached ImagesLearning one rod at a timeLooks okay, but you've got some undercut... You might wanna try turning it down a notch and/or going a little bit slower...Should be a nice trailer when you're done with it [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Lanse Yep to hot so I turned the heat down and it seemed to run real nice. I was too hot, then I was too cold, but after a few turns of the dial, I got it and Im just going to leave it there for the rest of this project.Learning one rod at a time
Reply:Ok got some new found respect for those of you that weld out in the sun al day. Im one tired puppy! Got the support welded on today and taled with my buddy about the top rail. Looks like Im going with the angle up the side and across the top, instead of the pipe. So i cant weld verts, so we lifted it and I baiscly welded flat. It was real fun  being on the lader, and turned. Couldnt move out od the sun, reflections in the hood, ect. I kept a damp rag around my neck to stay cool, worked great. Been a long time since I worked out in the sun like this. Attached ImagesLearning one rod at a time
Reply:Not to pi$$ you off, but from what I can see in those picts, none of thse welds look "good" to me. To me they look cold and very irregular.  I'd grind them out and run them again. I take it this was all stick rather than mig? A trailer really isn't the place for substandard welds.I missed when you posted the picts of the other welds on the 21st. Did you go back and weld over those to eliminate all the undercuting you had? If you didn't, I'd strongly suggest it. You've thinned the steel down pretty well with those beads and thats definately a failure point in the making.I will give you an "A" for creativity on flipping the trailer up to weld flat..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Dsw, first off you wont piss me off cause Im learning and I could use all the help I can get. Tim did make me grind out a few and reweld them. One weld looked so bad, and yes I did stick the rod a few times, I ground it out and re did it. I only had a few 1/8 rods in my can, grabbed the wrong can. My buddy was double checkin me all the way, and yes they are ugly, but he feels that they are fine. Yes this is what he dose every day, mostly tig, for work. As far as the under cut from the 21st, yes I did re weld them. If you look back I had posted that I started the heat too hot. The pic was of that. Ill say that its a whole differant feel not being solid on the ground. the out of position, my hands and body, was a real chalange. Also this was some huge welder, 3 phase, what ever that is. I like my eng driven better, only cause Im used to it. Oh and thanks for the A! LOL the only other time I get an "A" is followed by a few ss from my wife!Learning one rod at a time
Reply:A buddy of mine loaned a trailer like that out to another guy. The other guy decided he needed to cut the top rail and side supports off. Then returned it all jacked up. I could not believe my eyes. I had to reweld all new material on the trailer for my buddy. Then he turned around and sold it cuz he needed the money, back to the guy who jacked it up. Who then proceeded to cut it up again. I was ticked off to top all ticking off.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:where in SC are u man? i got some family up in that area. i am about 1 1/2hours south of atlanta. just curious. nice trailer