Value of used 225 amp class mig?

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For next seasons car it looks like I'd benefit from a larger machine. My 180 has served me well but this time I'm doing everything in house.  The 180 is powerful enough for most of what I do but the main contention is the gun length.  Even on the last build a couple of times I had to take it off the cart and put in on or in the car.I can't find anything longer for that machine.  There are a few 225 amp class machines on CL in the area.  Some PM215s and MM210s.  Price seems a bit high, between $900-$1100, no bottles. I've got T sized bottles so it's not an issue. I could swing 600-700 before the build but 1500-1600 new is out of the question this year.  I can always rent a rig from Red D Arc but if I can swing a bigger, new to me machine I'd like to go that route.What are these used machines really worth?
Reply:Stock gun length on most machines is 10 feet, even the 200's and 250's.   You can always swap out the torch for a longer one.  Tweco and Bernard both make longer torches for a variety of machines.  Check out www.bernardwelds.com for info on their Q-Gun line of mig torches.  I run 15' QGuns on several of my machines and am very happy with them.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks.  I was looking for a Lincoln branded replacement and didn't think the other brands would fit the SP series.  Good call.   There seem to be several other after market but somewhat larger than the 100 amp that comes with the smaller machine.  That's a cool thing about those entry level guns, they're small and good for getting around tubing.  Looks like about $200 or so plus shipping depending on the length.  That's better than a rental.  Still, if I could pick up a PM215 for 600 or so that would be nice.  Otherwise next spring a PM216 looks like a good bet.  In about 3 years I've put 40 lbs of wire through the 180, 20 of that in the last 10 months or so.
Reply:I run a 15' Tweco Mini on my Miller 251. I can push 035 wire through it without a problem. But 030 pisses it off. Just something to think about when going to a longer lead. I would have gone with a 12' lead if I had known.Millermatic 251Spectrum 300 PlasmaEverlast PowerTig 250EXEverlast PowerCool W300Harris / Victor OACraftsman 13 Speed Drill PressProTools Air/Hydraulic Bender48" BrakeCompressor, Notchers, Grinders, etc.
Reply:I see very few of the higher end larger Lincoln migs for sale used.  I see alot more Millers, so a deal on a used Miller is more likely than on a Lincoln, around here anyways.The trick to feeding small diameter wire through a longer torch lead is to be sure to use the proper sized liner.  Using too large a liner results in snaking of the wire inside the liner and erratic feed speed, pulsing from slow to fast.  Buy a size-specific liner, rather than the one-size-fits-all ones they try to sell you, and you can push small wire through your longer torch.  Bernard sells liners in .023-.030, .035, .035-.045, .045-1/16, etc.  I use the .023-.030 liner for .030 wire, the .035 liner for .035 wire, the .035-.045 liner for .045 wire and the .045-1/16 liner for 1/16 wire, so the wire is always at the upper size limit of the liner.  No snaking and no erratic feed.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Im sure your right DR, and I would love to try a 030 specific liner if you happen to know where I could find one. All Ive ever been able to find for the Tweco Mini is a 030-035 liner. Like I said 035 pushes fine, but with 030 its either slipping drive wheels or a birds nest. Nothing in between.Millermatic 251Spectrum 300 PlasmaEverlast PowerTig 250EXEverlast PowerCool W300Harris / Victor OACraftsman 13 Speed Drill PressProTools Air/Hydraulic Bender48" BrakeCompressor, Notchers, Grinders, etc.
Reply:Thanks guys.  I found a longer gun with with the smaller Tweco style from Parweld.  The 200-300 amp Bernard style is tough for me to get into smaller spaces around the tubing.  Parweld has got a bunch of different guns and lengths. I looked at a real Bernard but it was not quite twice the price.
Reply:It took me a while to find a 215a class MIG, especially one at an acceptable price.  I literally spent the better part of a year or so looking online before i found a good enough deal.  I looked at Millers, ESABs, Lincolns, and Hobart machines, trying to find one for the right price.  I ultimately ended up with a Lincoln Power Mig 255 for around $1k, which I thought was a pretty good deal.  Great thing about these welders, they come with a 15' gun.  This is plenty to get around my shop, especially with the 10' power cord.
Reply:Originally Posted by RugarIm sure your right DR, and I would love to try a 030 specific liner if you happen to know where I could find one. All Ive ever been able to find for the Tweco Mini is a 030-035 liner. Like I said 035 pushes fine, but with 030 its either slipping drive wheels or a birds nest. Nothing in between.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jason280It took me a while to find a 215a class MIG, especially one at an acceptable price.  I literally spent the better part of a year or so looking online before i found a good enough deal.  I looked at Millers, ESABs, Lincolns, and Hobart machines, trying to find one for the right price.  I ultimately ended up with a Lincoln Power Mig 255 for around $1k, which I thought was a pretty good deal.  Great thing about these welders, they come with a 15' gun.  This is plenty to get around my shop, especially with the 10' power cord.
Reply:Just be patient, you'll find one.  Like I said, it took me over a year.
Reply:I've been doing roll cage work with my HH210 and even when we are finish welding a cage (final welding all the tacked parts), it's been "plenty" of welder for the job. They will save you a few bucks over the Miller and Lincoln offerings (which look to be fantastic machines) and they weld very well. However, it still has a 10 foot gun (I'm considering ordering a 15 foot for mine too).KevinHobart Handler 210Tweco Fabricator 181iLincoln Squarewave Tig 175
Reply:This will be the 3rd car for this 180 amp machine.  For the tubing in the car it does well.  Where it is maxed is on other related projects, things on the trailer or in the shop. The thickest thing on the car are 3/16" footings and 1/8" intrusion panels. The stuff like 1/4" and 3/8" plates on the trailer or shop are where it gets taxed.  The 3/8" fab table top was particularly taxing.
Reply:If you have a 220v stick welder, use that for your thicker sections.I have welded up to 3/8" with my 180 amp migs, but it requires grooving out the joints, doing multiple passes and only welding a little at a time, as the duty cycle on the smaller migs is very low, 10 to 20% in the upper output ranges.  My XMT and MM350P weld 12" long joints on 3/8" all day long without overheating, but they have 60% duty cycle at 300 amps.  My MM175 trips the thermo shut off if I try to use it for thick joints longer than 6 inches or trying to do alot of joints in a short time.  Though it is capable of making the welds, it just doesn't have the duty cycle to do alot of it at once.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I was thinking a little tombstone would help with some of those bigger projects.  The next thick project will be putting a dovetail on the trailer.  It's cutting and repositioning 1/4" x 5" channel and some 1/4" x 2" angle iron with some 1/4" plates and gussets.  I can get a used tombstone for around a hundred or so or new for about 300 out the door.   I didn't think I'd need a stick welder but it looks like one could be handy.
Reply:Being away from the business for some years, I'm not up to speed on all the newer equipment & model numbers.  Are some of the suggestions refering to wire handlers, or would a compact wire feeder fill the bill for getting inside harder to reach places?  You could connect to any size welder and have the lighter weight & portibility.  Or am I just not understanding what original poster was asking about?