slag inclusions using 7014

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I recently did a project using rusty 2" pipe to build a hay manger.  I used 3/32 6013 to weld it up to help prevent blowing holes in the pipe.  there was a whole lot of saddle making on this project and most of the fit ups were pretty good, but I still had to patch some here and there.  I used a grinder and a wire brush to remove as much of the rust as I could without removing too much steel.  This meant that I left some rust where there were pits.As I started welding I noticed that I was getting a whole lot of slag inclusions, partly because of the rust and partly because I am just not very good.Later, I read an article about the problems with slag inclusions using 6013s and agreed that this was part of my problem.  So, for my next project I will be using 3/32 7014 rods.  What kind of a difference can I expect by changing these rods?  Will I still be having the same problems with slag inclusions?I do what I can to make my part as consistent as possible - rotate the work to keep the welds on top, take my time, make dry runs for positioning, etc...   But, with 2" pipe this is pretty hard.
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearne What kind of a difference can I expect by changing these rods?  Will I still be having the same problems with slag inclusions?I do what I can to make my part as consistent as possible - rotate the work to keep the welds on top, take my time, make dry runs for positioning, etc...   But, with 2" pipe this is pretty hard.
Reply:Ive always found that slag inclusions are a result of a few things. Undercut, slag will stick in undercut and can be difficult to remove. Slow down and fill any undercut as you are welding. Incorrect travel speed, not having enough metal in the bead and slowing the slag to get buried. Slag traps, if you are doing multi pass welds, do not leave sharp valleys or crevices between previous welds then weld over top of them, thats a sure place to get slag trapped causing a defect. Clean clean and clean again. 6013 has a heavy slag so make sure you get it all cleaned out and off before welding overtop. A wire wheel on your angle grinder makes quick work of slag cleaning.I use either 6010 or 7018 for all my carbon steel stick welding I do.Last edited by snoeproe; 05-11-2013 at 07:53 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:For rusty substrates, I wouldn't use anything except 6010 or 6011 for the first bead.
Reply:I agree with the others here about the rust issue.  For fitups and rust, 6010/6011 is the go-to rod of choice.  For solely poor fit ups (ie no rust), I recently discovered these Hobart 6012's, based on a recommendation from a friend of mine.   They really fill in gaps on joints that are what I consider a "horrible" fit-up.  Now, they don't penetrate deeply like 6010/6011 does.  Rather, they penetrate about the same as 6013's from the results I've had with them.  But, for the initial "root" pass of joining two pieces of metal that have a really bad fit, they fill the bill beautifully.     I can then go ahead and cap with 7014's or 7018's, depending on what project I have at the time. Just something to consider in the future, if you're going to be making a project with large gaps and poor joint fit up.  The 6012's I found at Airgas cost about $150 came in a 50lb can.  I've used almost half the can at the moment for making some brand new headlocks for the milk cows.  The round steel pipe we use is thin enough that the 6012's don't need a cap pass with a different electrode.   I just "6012 them," cold galvanize the joint and it's off to the next one.  http://www.hobartbrothers.com/produc...rt%26reg%3B+12 "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Instead of using 6013 to reduce blowing holes in the pipe, what about using 6011 reverse polarity (DCEN)?  That gives less penetration but is better for rusty metal.  (That's just a thought I'm tossing out for critique.)
Reply:Sorry guys, for taking so long to get back to these messages.DSW - I didn't see any thread with drawings, but I did watch the utube video.  I agree with the temptation to keep welding.  I'm real bad about that.  It seems that with 2" pipe, if I want to just weld on top, then I have to stop welding after an inch and a half or maybe 2 inches if I push it.  That's hard for me to do and I get in a hurry (bad mix).  This goes with what Snoeproe said about undercutting.  One of the articles I read about the causes of slag inclusion mentioned moving too fast.  That's me with thin pipe.  I'm so afraid of blowing a hole in the pipe that I don't really move slow enough as well as not having good technique with moving the stick.  I get a little jerky, especially if my body is out of a comfortable position.Anvil - I've never heard of 6012 rods but that sounds like something I would like to try, if I can find some.  I just paid $40 for 10# of 3/32 7014.  Boy, was I mad.K45 - I've tried doing some DCEN, but I'm not really good enough of a welder to be able to tell a difference.  Maybe I should go back and try again.  That was about a year ago and I have a little more experience now (very little).
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearneSorry guys, for taking so long to get back to these messages.DSW - I didn't see any thread with drawings, but I did watch the utube video.  I agree with the temptation to keep welding.  I'm real bad about that.  It seems that with 2" pipe, if I want to just weld on top, then I have to stop welding after an inch and a half or maybe 2 inches if I push it.  That's hard for me to do and I get in a hurry (bad mix).  This goes with what Snoeproe said about undercutting.  One of the articles I read about the causes of slag inclusion mentioned moving too fast.  That's me with thin pipe.  I'm so afraid of blowing a hole in the pipe that I don't really move slow enough as well as not having good technique with moving the stick.  I get a little jerky, especially if my body is out of a comfortable position.Anvil - I've never heard of 6012 rods but that sounds like something I would like to try, if I can find some.  I just paid $40 for 10# of 3/32 7014.  Boy, was I mad.K45 - I've tried doing some DCEN, but I'm not really good enough of a welder to be able to tell a difference.  Maybe I should go back and try again.  That was about a year ago and I have a little more experience now (very little).
Reply:Good to hear.  My welding opportunities are pretty sporadic.  In fact, I'm starting to lean back toward getting more 7018s.  I keep hearing stories that, especially for welders like me, they will hold up over time even though the humidity here is very high.