Disappointed in dynasty 200 steel

admin

I am a newer welder with new equipment. I have been working with aluminum for almost a year and have done some small stainless projects.  Thought I would try a few home projects and would tig up some homemade saw horses out of scrap.   Having never done this before, thought I would practice first.  I got some rusty 3/16 plate cranked welder all the way up and let her rip. Nice, smooth almost black bead with a little undercut. Let it cool, and hit it with a hammer to test it  snap!!!! no penetration.  Break out the grinder, clean off both plates, check everything over and try again.  Beautiful weld smooth nice shape,  let it cool and take a hammer to it.  Snap!!!! WTF!!!  200 amps dc  3/32 red   308L  1/16 filler   100% argon Getting 1/16 penetration!!!!!  Is my welder bad?? or just a bad welder??  thought this dynasty was good for 1/4 plate single pass??  Played around with preheat, cleaning, all that jazz, and still nowhere near what I expected. Neighbors $80 dollar stick welder much better than my $3000 tig. (yes I know I can stick weld with my machine but alway though tig was way to go.)I have pictures but can' t figure out how to resize and never done the http for pictures.  Any thoughts Tim
Reply:As far as picts, If you have Office on your machine just double click on the pict you want to resize and it will open up MS Picture Manager. Click edit pict, and then on the right choose resize, then save. You'll loose the original unless you save as something else however. Outlook will also let you automatically resize when you email picts, so send them to yourself if nothing else.I can think of several possible issues, but I'd like to see picts 1st rather than blindly guess. I'm betting it's you not the machine though.Once you have the picts resized, go to manage attachments under post reply, select the one you want and upload it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:trying to get pic  pics in my album working on get in posts
Reply:try number 2Last edited by novision; 11-26-2010 at 07:16 PM.
Reply:got pic worked out adding restLast edited by novision; 11-26-2010 at 07:24 PM.
Reply:I see that there is nothing wrong with your welder.  You need to clean better.  The weld is undersized and needs to be 3/16" in size and/or have a bevel.  The undercutting that you have is detrimental to the weld strength.  Its always better to use the right filler for the material your welding. What do your Al welds look like?
Reply:Cleaning is not the problem here, but I don't see any joint prep and the fact you are using stainless here as a filler is a contributing factor to joining the steel.  Though it can be done, it isnt the best choice for starting out.  It looks like you didn't add enough filler to start,and you weren't moving slow enough to get the penetration you needed.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Don't be "disappointed" at the machine.Be pi$$ed at the incompetent holding the torch.Rusty metal.SS filler.200AI'd suggest you go to the Miller site and order a copy of their Student Pack.  It includes an excellent Tig Handbook.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Its not the machine. "LOL"Buy the miller tig hand book
Reply:OK Poor bead size, wrong filler, no prep, no bevel, moving too fast, not enough filler... Kids in class regularly blow holes thru 1/8" at 140-150 amps if they are heavy handed..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:what happens if you just try to fuse weld two pieces of plate together? i can fuse weld 1/4" plate with my maxstar at about 100 amps and (if I go slow enough ) my penetration is better than that
Reply:Contamination is certainly your problem.Set flow to around 20cfm'Get a new tungsten and sharpen it correctlyGet a flap wheel and clean the hell out of that metal...You cannot produce good reuslts on tig with dirty metal.Don't get to caught up in the single pass b.s.Make your passes and take your time....It will all play out....1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:ok fair enough: wrong filler first does filler effect penetration? Is more  prep going to get me deep weld? I don't see porosity problems? moving fast enough its got over 1/4( weld and less than  1/16 penetration?  NOT blaming welder as this is new to me. Asking  for answers and I am shocked at poor penetration.  Would more filler fix this?  How does more filler/type make for more penetration rather than larger fillet. (plate 3/16 weld thicker than plate yet not even half way into plate) can i change arc shape like ac for better penetration.  and Last no I have not gone to school or take class's so far I have gotten by with help from here.
Reply:Taiden, are you spacing plates apart or just right next together?I will look at how many amps your machine is.   I actually tried that with the same plates and was all so disappointed in result.  would grinding first increase penetration or just reduce contaminationLast edited by novision; 11-26-2010 at 09:04 PM.
Reply:JSM11  can I get more out of each pass or just have to keep going over with more passes.  I was hoping for a 1/4 weld in one pass. will I get anything more than a larger fillet.  does every one bevel and fill in that fine for up right piece how do I increase penetration to bottom plate.  although I might be ok as the test plates all broke in the center of weld
Reply:200 amps is high imo...Bevel the edges, and run multiple passes if need be......You will also have the advantage of seeing the penetration...ie. fill up....Most, if not all metal welds better with the bevel and will give a better overall result....Clean, clean, clean.....Tig is a great process but a pain in the ***....Everything has to be CLEAN....Also, make sure to keep the wire inside the pocket of gas projected by the cup, andkeep a steady even distance to the metal....At 200 amps you should be pushing into it pretty darn good.And maybe try going slower...Tig is SLOW....compared to other processes.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:Originally Posted by novisionok fair enough: wrong filler first does filler effect penetration? Is more  prep going to get me deep weld? I don't see porosity problems? moving fast enough its got over 1/4( weld and less than  1/16 penetration?  NOT blaming welder as this is new to me. Asking  for answers and I am shocked at poor penetration.  Would more filler fix this?  How does more filler/type make for more penetration rather than larger fillet. (plate 3/16 weld thicker than plate yet not even half way into plate) can i change arc shape like ac for better penetration.  and Last no I have not gone to school or take class's so far I have gotten by with help from here.
Reply:I am too impatient to bother using my Tig on steel that thick.  5 years ago I would have laid some nice welds with my stick welder and I would have KNOWN that the weld would never snap with me smacking it with a hammer.  Today I would turn on the 75/25 gas on my 252 mig and make a nice strong weld with no worries.  It would never occur to me to Tig 3/16" steel and expect it to be as strong as my stick or mig welds would be.  I consider Tig to be a delicate welding method for thin stuff, stainless and aluminum where you know you are going to be spending time on cleaning and prep and fitment etc.  Even on aluminum, as soon as the thickness gets anything around 1/16" on up, I will still opt for the mig spoolgun because it's so quick and forgiving.  Why Tig a material like 3/16" mild steel that can be done so easily with another process?  I'm not criticizing anyone for doing it, just wondering why.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by DougAustinTX  Why Tig a material like 3/16" mild steel that can be done so easily with another process?  I'm not criticizing anyone for doing it, just wondering why.
Reply:Thanks for the replies,  I will try cleaning and beveling some time this weekend. I will see what changes that makes.  And I will buy some different filler.  As for speed if I slow down wont the puddle just get bigger.   As for why tig well its the only thing I have used. I purchase the welder to work on old aluminum boats and pontoons and it took months to learn.  The little bit of stainless that I have done came easy after some help from people here (grim1, Rojodiablo, and a few others). The steel does not seem to flow or melt as well as the ss did.
Reply:Mild Steel is similar to the stainless...Just does not break down as quickly.....Welds very similarly...IMOYes, slow down.....The puddle getting wider gives deeper penetration as well.Add to it the correct filler and you should be good.Pick up some a small tube of 3/32nd filler and a small tube of 1/8th filler.....At  around 200 amps the 1/8th will still melt pretty darn quick.and you'll have enough metal coming from the rod to fill the larger, deeper hole.Try it on flat plate first without beveling at 200 amps w/ 1/8th inch wire and you should get a nice uniform puddle everytime you dip the rod.Also don't be afraid to move the torch around a little ( forward and backwards just a bit) to get the wider bead that may be needed.GLEdit:Think of the speed of your movements and cut it in half.....It's that slow...Speed was my initial problem as well.....1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:btw, if you are really upset with the dynasty, send it my way. you dont need the frustration
Reply:Yea its deffiently not the dynasty. As said slow it down and make a bevel. Retry it and post some pics up again.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by Taidenbtw, if you are really upset with the dynasty, send it my way. you dont need the frustration
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneYou love dreamin don't younovision  -  All of the afore-mentioned tech-tips contribute to ill effect in different degrees, mostly minor.  The core problem begins with inadequate joint consideration, weld-bead size and profile, and fails due to transverseshrinkage.  These considerations are core welding theory, interrelated, and most easily explained by referencing Lincoln's Procedural Handbook, nowin its 14th. edit., any edition covers these issues.  This was my text bookin welding school 37 years-ago and it's still a primary reference.     OPUS
Reply:My suggestion is to find someone more experienced with TIG to drop by and run your machine. They will be able to tell you what's going on better than anybody. I'd suggest offering beer and food in exchange for a little help.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Best advice I have gotten yet. Never though of that. Any body got a dynasty in michigan want a case of beer. Thanks Tim
Reply:I got some of my answers in my other post.  Apparently tig uses a lower voltage than stick welding, which helps explains why their is such a difference in penetration (wattage = current x voltage).If you double voltage you double wattage which explains why a 100 amp stick welder is better than a 200 amp tig welder.   Thanks for all the responses from everyone Tim
Reply:i assumed TIG used lower voltage because it doesn't have to bust an arc through flowing flux and all that junk