So the company fabricator built this...

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...its an adapter to be used with a hydraulic tensioning testing station. We needed an adapter that would go from a 6-sided bolt to a socket to adapt to the test table. Im pretty sure he took a bolt and welded a socket adapter to it. Personally ive seen better from highschool kids...I would like to get some of yalls opinions - most of you on here have way more experience than anybody I know. Is there a better way to build it?A little info on the tool, some of these tensioning wrenches can put out in the range of 5,000-7,000 ft. lbs.Last edited by smokin_dodge; 10-19-2011 at 07:01 PM.
Reply:Does it work? If so....QUIT YER BITCHN.Sometime us shop fab guys get the great jobs with no budget - and not in a good way. The shop guys just want it done. If a pig makes bacon, who cares if its wearing lipstick?
Reply:I'm guessing by the fact that it's in two pieces, it doesn't work.based on the break though, I wouldn't be to sure that he just welded stuff together. that break is the same all the way through the metal. I think it's more likely that he milled down something than he welded it together.Last edited by ThorsHammer; 10-19-2011 at 07:25 PM.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Id machine it from solid. Very simpleHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Originally Posted by fordmanId machine it from solid. Very simple
Reply:Without a tool steel filler and then heat treating, that part pretty much had no chance. I'm not sure I'd try it with a good filler and heat treating...I've made tough use tooling and wrenches using Viscount44 in a pinch, but I wouldn't bet on it lasting long with a hydraulic torque wrench if this is similar.Matt
Reply:That's why I said "I'd" short for I would. Meaning that's how I would make it. He asked for our opinion. If you have a professional shop and don't have a mill or know where to find one. Well.....HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguyDoes it work? If so....QUIT YER BITCHN.Sometime us shop fab guys get the great jobs with no budget - and not in a good way. The shop guys just want it done. If a pig makes bacon, who cares if its wearing lipstick?
Reply:Originally Posted by jbmprodsi have been in to many bars where the pig was wearing lipstick and after a bottle of 101 wild turkey i still couldn't bring myself to taste the bacon.
Reply:after the turkey 101 you aint afraid to kiss the turkey buttidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:single piece
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorafter the turkey 101 you aint afraid to kiss the turkey butt
Reply:i have been in to many bars where the pig was wearing lipstick and after a bottle of 101 wild turkey i still couldn't bring myself to taste the bacon.
Reply:It was most certainly not welded as previously mentioned, you can tell by the how the break is. A couple thing that he could do though next time though, he could put a radius instead of a sharp edge in between the hex and the square part to relieve a bit of stress. How long did the part last before breaking? You could look into making it out of tool steel vs mild steel (not sure which one he used, but taking a closer look since it doesn't look like it twisted much before breaking, I would have to say that it might not of been regular mild steel and it would turn quite a bit with that before snapping)
Reply:Originally Posted by dj55bIt was most certainly not welded as previously mentioned, you can tell by the how the break is. A couple thing that he could do though next time though, he could put a radius instead of a sharp edge in between the hex and the square part to relieve a bit of stress. How long did the part last before breaking? You could look into making it out of tool steel vs mild steel (not sure which one he used, but taking a closer look since it doesn't look like it twisted much before breaking, I would have to say that it might not of been regular mild steel and it would turn quite a bit with that before snapping)
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterDitto..Look at the spiral shaped center on the broken square part..Ain't no welding that will make that happen......zap!
Reply:I bet he cut off the end of an extension and welded it up? I would make another one out of S7 or D2. Treat it to a Rockwell of around 55 then draw it back to 40~45C. If you look at the edges of the male square they look like they are beveled. The hole looks like it has a radius inside it. I bet it was a forging probably impact grade. If you look at impact grade sockets they are for wear resistance not constant force.
Reply:kind of looks like its welded around the perimeter of the hex, then was turned and milled, then the square flange broke, not actually the weld..  hard to tell on a computer though..  might have used a nut and inserted an extension and welded it then turned and milled it..  the hexagon  almost looks like stainless..  i would look at turning and milling it from a single piece, probably 4340 or 4350 heat treated. i would also have a nice 1/8" radius at the base of the square if possible.  heat treated s7 or h13 would probably work as well..Last edited by brucer; 10-20-2011 at 01:51 AM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:that certainly looks like 2 pieces welded together.      . but it looks like the weld  held up.   And the  sqaure twisted   in 2 pieces.     ive had 3 inch shafts on turret machines at work,   twist off in 2.    they were dam near flat were they twisted off.>Innovations are what i leave behind for History
Reply:Not sure what size you need, but for what its worth you can buy parts like that already made:
Reply:Not that will hold up to 7000 ft-lbs. At least I don't think they would.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Looking at the pics there is no sign of overload, the fracture is fatigue and the final fracture is only about 10 percent of the whole part.  20 minutes of polishing would have reduced the stress muyltiplier on the transition and this tool would probably have lasted a very long time.  I can't really see the initiation point of the fracture in the pics, not clear enough to identify any chevrons or ratchet marks, but I can see very distinct beach lines which only occur in fatigue fractures, and it looks pretty smooth which indicates it was reletively high cycle---did not happen all of the sudden.6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:You might try to drill the hex head to the nominal size; burr relieve the corners; slide the square bit through and weld the hex on both sides. That way the stress isn't on the weld.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelderLooking at the pics there is no sign of overload, the fracture is fatigue and the final fracture is only about 10 percent of the whole part.  20 minutes of polishing would have reduced the stress muyltiplier on the transition and this tool would probably have lasted a very long time.  I can't really see the initiation point of the fracture in the pics, not clear enough to identify any chevrons or ratchet marks, but I can see very distinct beach lines which only occur in fatigue fractures, and it looks pretty smooth which indicates it was reletively high cycle---did not happen all of the sudden.
Reply:i'm still thinking it was a nut that has been bored out and an extension pressed through the nut then welded together and machined...  possibly when whomever welded it actually weakened the extension/square flange with the heat, especially if the square flange/extension was case hardened to start with..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/well,aside from how it broke, I'd recommend machining a single piece replacement out of a solid piece of O1 or similar tool steel.  Make sure you radius the transition between the square and the hex using a ball nose mill (I'd figure that a 1/8th radius should work fine, but a 3/16ths might be better in order to distribute the torsional stresses).  Polish out all of the machining markings in order to avoid giving it a place to initiate a crack.  Then send the piece off to a good heattreat shop and explain the amount of torsional stress it's going to be under, etc... and let them heattreat it properly.  If you wanted to avoid heat treat, you could see if you can get a piece of Vanax from Bohler-Uddeholm in the size you'd need to machine the part (follow all of the same procedures for the machining, radius, polish, etc...).--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:goto harbor freight they sell this !!!! its in the bull**** aisle......lol sorry couldnt help itI forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCgoto harbor freight they sell this !!!! its in the bull**** aisle......lol sorry couldnt help it
Reply:Looks to me someone said I need this, and I need it right now!!!!!  So that's what the guy did!  There's two types of maintenance men and they are both needed.  One who can get things going quickly, but they always have to go back and fix it.  The one who fixes things to last, but it's going to take a while, and companies often don't have that much time.
Reply:5000-7000 ft lbs is a lot to ask of  square drive.  If you were to do it again, I would definitely make it from solid.  I would make it from tool grade steel and heat treat.  I would also make increase the radius at the base.  Now, how many cycles did this tool undergo before failure?  1? 10? 1000?  It its surviving a 1000 cycles before failure maybe you should simply consider a phase-out schedule where you only use the tool 500 times then toss it.In all honesty, I've never used a square drive to that torque level.  Generally when we get into the 7000ftlb range we are using hydraulic torque wrenches that are a ring driven from the outside.  Anything above that we use hydraulic jacks to pull the stud to tension and simply run the nut down by hand.  For applications beyond that scope, the pilgrim nut which does away with the threads all together.
Reply:http://www.hytorc.com/Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Finally got time to post up the new tool. Im not sure what he used as far as metal (guy doesnt speak too much english) but it looks good and so far holding up to about 5,000lbs force without a problem. Havnt gotten around to testing the big HexLinks yet...
Reply:can we get a side by side with the original or has that already gone out in the scrap pile? I'd like to see the difference between the two.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I think a radius where the hex meets the round and where the round meets the square would add considerable strength.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:Originally Posted by RaptorDunerI think a radius where the hex meets the round and where the round meets the square would add considerable strength.
Reply:Hopefully they used h14 or 4140 due to the muscle your putting behind it! Looks good for sure!
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC15005000-7000 ft lbs is a lot to ask of  square drive.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanSo you're saying that's too much torque for this socket?http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....e=&dir=catalog
Reply:Originally Posted by paintman40My gosh!  I've got quite the collection of Snap-On tools, but I must say, I don't have this.  $4,285, what are they smoking?
Reply:The Thing I don't like about this post is degrading the fabricator who made that. Was he given engineering prints? Also I bet that tool he he made was able to stand that kind of force before he welded on it and annealed the top side of the socket. Here's the dealHe was not an engineer and that part was probably used a few times before it broke. Secondly how many of us broke 1/4  or 3/8 snapon ratchets under normal use. I have.
Reply:that is a lot of money but I don't think I've ever even seen a 2.5 inch ratchet. and what does that weigh?Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Dodge, would you mind putting the dimensions on those sockets? I would like to do a FEA analysis and I'll post the results if I get some good ones Thanks man!My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:you'll have to be a little more specific on which size socket...i have at least 1,000 on the shelf, and a few hundred more in storage - Where i work we have everything from your standard 1/2 @ 3/8 drive to over 9" @ 3 1/2" drive, as well as a large variety of spline drivethe adapter itself, wasn't designed for a socket, but instead a hydraulic torque link. I have everything from 1/2" to over 6", and the ability to drive up to a 2 1/2" drive socket. you could say I have quite the assortment. We are just getting into the hydraulic torqing business large scale so the adapter had to be made to test tools on our calibration machine.
Reply:Goddamn, 9 1/2" socket...what do you guys do? Install helicopter rotors or something?--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:It takes nuts and bolts this size to keep people like Stick-Man from tearing things up.
Reply:Originally Posted by wintermuteGoddamn, 9 1/2" socket...what do you guys do? Install helicopter rotors or something?--Wintermute
Reply:kin'ell. That's some store you have there. We never see anything the likes of that over here.
Reply:Originally Posted by smokin_dodgeyou'll have to be a little more specific on which size socket...i have at least 1,000 on the shelf, and a few hundred more in storage - Where i work we have everything from your standard 1/2 @ 3/8 drive to over 9" @ 3 1/2" drive, as well as a large variety of spline drive(...)