Newb Question - Arc vs Mig

admin

As some may know I've been hunting for a welder, as I look I've been noticing that it takes an arc welder a lot more current to weld the same thickness of steel as a mig.  For example, a lincoln 180 says it can weld up to 1/2" steel but requires only a 20 amp circuit.  Yet a 20 amp arc welder can only weld steel up to 1/8" thick - big difference for the same input.I was hoping someone could tell me why that is.Thanks,Matt
Reply:Basically, it is how the power is utilized in the machine and how the difference between the Constant Current vs the Constant Voltage process methods in welding.  You also have the size of electrode generating the arc variable thrown in there.  It is apples and oranges.
Reply:If you compare a transformer arc welder, it does take more amperage for the upper limit of the machine (usually 25 amps).  However, you can weld 1/4" steel at less amps on the arc welder than on the mig.
Reply:Despite what Lincoln might say in the literature, the Lincoln 180 mig will max out on 1/4" material, not 1/2"..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:@ mattsee - cut sheet on the Lincoln PowerMIG 180.  Key on the limitations highlighted in RED for the 208/230V input.  MIG welding mild steel 1/4" to 1/2" requires multi-pass (MP),  not single-pass (SP).  Reality Check:  the Lincoln 180 is a 3/16" (1/4" max) machine.  Would not use it for professional/code work above 1/4".Compare SP via SMAW ("stick") with SP via MIG, you'll find that the two processes trend toward unity. Attached ImagesLast edited by ManoKai; 08-10-2013 at 03:23 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:The Lincoln specs say 20 Amps at rated current, which is less than max.  They recommend a 40A breaker.  And remember it is 240V, not 120.  A Lincoln buzz box stick welder can do quite a bit with 30 or 40 Amps input.  Some of the little inverter stick welders can perform pretty well on a 120V, 20A circuit. In the end, it's all about the kiloWatts (heat), nature of the arc and the efficiency of the welder design."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Thank you all for the information, that makes a lot of sense.  I know that specs are often exaggerated on all kinds of things.  I've gathered a lot of good info so I'll see what I can find used.Matt
Reply:Another thing too while you are here.This place will chew you up like a meat grinder over your use of welding "terms".Arc welding covers almost, if not,  all processes of electrical welding.  Tig, Mig, Stick etc.Brush up on your welding verbage.- Stick welding is SMAW  (Shielded Metal Arc Welding)- Mig  (Metal Inert Gas) is known as GMAW  (Gas shielded Metal Arc Welding)- Mig with Flux core wire welding is known as FCAW  (Flux Core Arc Welding)- Tig (Tungsten Inert Gas) is known as GTAW  (Gas Tungsten Arc Welding)Here is a link to some good info by Lincolnhttp://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...ed-detail.aspx
Reply:Thank you, I appreciate your patience well I learn to use the terms properly, I do a lot of work in IT and one of my hobbies is hunting and shooting so I can fully appreciate how the misuse of terms can be annoying to the more experienced people.  I'll do my best to be clear.Matt
Reply:If it don't have a flame, it's arc welding. Or JB Weld.  "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Don't forget plastic weldingXMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumIf it don't have a flame, it's arc welding. Or JB Weld.
Reply:No flame, no arc, no bearing grease = friction weld.  "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumIf it don't have a flame, it's arc welding. Or JB Weld.
Reply:Friction welding is like a lathe/press on steroids.   Spin one part fast against another held stationary until the friction melts the joint.  Here is an example:
Reply:Originally Posted by mattsseThank you, I appreciate your patience well I learn to use the terms properly, I do a lot of work in IT and one of my hobbies is hunting and shooting so I can fully appreciate how the misuse of terms can be annoying to the more experienced people.  I'll do my best to be clear.Matt