Coal Stove / External Chimney.

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I got this 1940's Coal Stove from the Junkyard, Sandblasted it and painted it Flat Black with Hemi Orange Doors.  Coal Stove, Chimney External to Radiate Heat (Works Extremely Well)2nd Floor Chimney Bracket (Chimney External to Radiate heat on 2nd floor)  2nd Floor Chimney, (1 more bracket in attic to support weight of Chimney, Then out the Roof)I got to weld in my Living room (SMAW)  I ran my 200' Leads through the 2nd floor window off my trailblazer 302.  Stove and Chimney Work very well,  Keeps the house VERY VERY WARM!!Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Would you consider a railing around the chimney on the second floor? I know its no hotter than the stove (which people seldom put a railing around) but a stove sets off alarm bells in most humans so they don't touch it. Just an innocent looking pipe - not so much. IMHO,JasonXMT 350 MPA Dynasty 280DXSuitcase 8RC / OptimaSpoolmatic 30AThermco Ar / C02 mixerAssorted O/A gear
Reply:Does the fireplace behind the chimney not work?
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16I got this 1940's Coal Stove from the Junkyard, Sandblasted it and painted it Flat Black with Hemi Orange Doors.  Stove and Chimney Work very well, Keeps the house VERY VERY WARM!!
Reply:Thanks guys.  The Chimney behind the Coal Stove works fine.  We had a Wood Incert for years, Wood Got really old, and I spend $60.00 a month for Coal, and the Coal Stove runs 24/7.  I spent more than $60.00 a month getting wood, Gas, Bar Oil, 2 cycly Oil, Chains, Files, Diesel Fuel to get the wood...I am not really a Pipe Welder (Have Done It Before)  I ground Nice Bevels on all the joints and left a 1/8" root opening, got a nice Full Penn weld across for all the joints and capped them with a nice weave bead, ( I was very proud of myself ).  I have a few Carbon Monoxide detecters in the house.  The pipe gets hot upstairs, but its not in the way, where you you would walk, its in a secluded area,  The dogs lay around the pipe.And yes, Welding in my living room was an experience!!  Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:My only real concern is that you don't have any leaks in the chimney. I'd strongly suggest investing in a few CO detectors for the house if you don't already have them in addition to smoke alarms.
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16And yes, Welding in my living room was an experience!!
Reply:Nice job!! If there's any chance of little ones around upstairs I still think a heat shield is in order. JMHO.             I do have to ask why the "Danger, flammable liquid" sign is on the door upstairs??Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Your insurance not going to like it very well.Before I put a wood stove in my basment I got a book on what to do and not do.If your pipe is single wall it will radiate heat and make you homeless.
Reply:The Flammible Liquid Sign is just a Sign I found at the junkyard.  That is a Single wall pipe its 1/4" Pipe.  I've had that stove going so damn hot, if you sprayed water on the pipe it would sizzle, No drywall or Rafters in the attic ever got hot.  IMO its very very safe.  Yes, when the little ones arive, There will be a shield or Rail around it.  Definitely.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:No doubt that heats the house well, but damn its ugly.  You couldn't run the pipe up the chimney?  Your wife or girlfriend approves?  If you ever try to sell your house I imagine it will offend some potential buyers.  Don't mean to offend, just sayin...
Reply:I think its neat looking.  ( I say its a Stripper Pole for fat chicks)   The whole point of the External Chimney was to Radiate heat and not let it go up the chimney,  with the Wood Stove I had it would only radiate heat from the Stove, this radiates heat through the Coal Stove, and the Pipe through the 2nd floor.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:I totally understand that.  From a functional standpoint I bet it works great.  From an aesthetic standpoint, your house looks nicer without it.  To each his own.
Reply:I agree, I only walked into it once so far.  I was half asleep and I had to go to the bathroom, walked right into it. LOL  But now Im used to it.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:I look at this and see code violations.....  I doubt that the house could be sold with it in place... Then you have the holes in the ceilings floor and roof to deal with....  But it's already there.... And if you're sure it's safe, nothing I'm going to say will change your mind anyway....Not trying to be an ***, but make sure that the stays you put at the ceilings and where it goes thru the roof don't transfer heat the the floor joists or rafters...  There's a reason that building codes do not allow single wall flue to be used in locations that pass from one room to the next.....
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16  IMO its very very safe.  Yes, when the little ones arive,
Reply:That looks like an old Warm Morning stove, my Great Grandfather had one in the cellar and it heated the whole house.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Yes sir, that's a warm morning stove, old but works excellent.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:While it may not seem like the surrounding wood is very hot to the touch, over time the heat causes the cells in the wood to change (called pyrophoric carbonization).  It's a type of very slow oxidation (essentially a type of charring) that will eventually lead to a fire.  Get it inspected for the safety of your family!Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:I installed a wood burning stove to manufactures specs and my ins co. wanted an extra heat shield on the pipe. I had double walled pipe on it.Leo
Reply:Originally Posted by AquafireWhile it may not seem like the surrounding wood is very hot to the touch, over time the heat causes the cells in the wood to change (called pyrophoric carbonization).  It's a type of very slow oxidation (essentially a type of charring) that will eventually lead to a fire.  Get it inspected for the safety of your family!
Reply:[  Just looked at the pictures again, I'll go all the way, that is unsafe and the kind of thing that tragically makes the news, I'm sorry but I deal with this all the time. Career FF, and former certified fire investigator. you are endangering yourself and your family. Harsh words I know, not personal.   And also you have documented it here for any insurance C/O guy to use against you in court.  In today's world anytinig you put into the home for utilities , be it electric, or heat, plumbing should be UL listed and approved, tested and installed to the Mfgr.s  instructions, Easy out for the insurance co. here and they won't pay, that is , if you are around to collect.   sounds like I'm a real XXX but check around with some pro's in your area, see what they say  One more thing, can you post a picture of the inside of the attic where it goes through the roof?.Last edited by kolot; 02-06-2012 at 10:46 AM."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Internal (inside) external (outside)
Reply:Originally Posted by AquafireWhile it may not seem like the surrounding wood is very hot to the touch, over time the heat causes the cells in the wood to change (called pyrophoric carbonization).  It's a type of very slow oxidation (essentially a type of charring) that will eventually lead to a fire.  Get it inspected for the safety of your family!
Reply:A friend of mine has a warm morning stove and heats his house all winter with it.  Coal is one of the best sources of heat in my mind.  I also had a coal stove in my house in Maine and I installed it myself.  I consulted with the dealer and the fire chief on the install to make sure it would pass muster with the insurance co.  I have attached some pictures of the install so you can see what kinds of things were done.  I would urge you to do what you can to be in compliance.  You said yourself you already walked into it. The first picture shows the small space in the attic stairwell that the flue needed to pass through to get to the chimney.  The chimney was lined and double wall insulated pipe was used to pass from the living room through a wall, into the attic space, and connect to the chimney.  The wall also had a heat shield installed with an air space that the double wall pipe passed through.  The second picture shows the backside of the stove as it passes through the 11 ga wall shield and into the heat shield (2 piece) that passes through the wall.   The wall shield stands away from the wall about 1 1/2". The last picture shows the final installation with the stove set on a hearth.  I built the hearth myself and before I installed the thinset and tile I had to install a min. 26ga piece of sheet steel under the stove and where the door opens.   This is a safety measure in the even that you get cracks in the tile and an ember can work down through to the wooden substrate/floor.With all that said, some of my concerns would be: -Lack of heat shields on the wall and through the floor (possibly roof?). -It looks like you would be emptying the ash pan right on the hardwood floor as your stove is out beyond your fireplace hearth.  -The barometric damper is excellent on a coal stove, but not a good idea if you tried to burn wood half the time.  Someone already mentioned a chimney fire.  That damper would serve to fuel that fire.  -Finally, in my mind the internal chimney heat is not enough benefit to try to maintain that type of installation.   Magic Heat makes a great heat reclaimer for stove pipe, I just installed one on the woodstove at my shop and it has improved the heat a lot.  Here's a link: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...1508_200331508 Attached ImagesOriginally Posted by jmanF-K theory applies, but is it the 'cause' or the 'event'?Stating that the OP's house IS probably going to burn down is nonsense...  Almost ALL situations of ignition due to pyrophoric carbonization (some Scientists claim to have Dis-Proven this theory) is due to 'Runaway' conditions of Heating in Boilers and similar, causing temperatures in EXCESS of 200 Degrees Celsius.  Having said that, there have ALSO been events of smoldering and even fires that have been attributed to simple hot water pipes coming through wood sub-floors.  The problem with such fires is that even though VERY knowledgeable and competent Fire Investigators CONCLUDE that this is the reason for the fire, they also KNOW that these 'incidents' are 'infinitesimally rare' and MUST occur in specific circumstances ONLY. The PHYSICS behind Pyrophoric Carbonization at ANY TEMPERATURE and certainly "LOW TEMPERATURES" is SO complicated, that NO ONE has been able to Successfully determine how or why such a fire could occur, after all, the dynamics are not as simple as that of a 'Haystack Fire'...  Many have 'THEORIES', but they couldn't possibly ALL be true or very few houses, hospitals or buildings of ANY KIND that have 'metal piping' used for heating, would still be standing today...
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotNot nonsense, and not talking about pyrophoric carbonization in this case, pyrolysis was quoted just as an example as how a fire can start from what seems like very low temps, as far as in not been proven conclusively, it has not been excluded or disproven either.Recreations at the UL laboratories and Worcester Poly Tech labs have infact demonstrated the phenomenom is very real (That is a very long debate)   Read what this young man has done, he has constructed a chimney for a fossil fuel device that runs close too and through the flammable structural members of his home, single wall, and he even states he did it due to the fact, and that infact, it radiats heat very well.He may get lucky, but codes arrive from the unlucky as a result of studying situations that went wrong, he is in a bad situation.  Would like to see some pictures of the penetration of the ceiling and roof from the attic view point. I bet you have under 8 inches clearance to any point. If you were to have a chimney fire you will have a much increased radiation of heat from that single wall chimney. Not a creosote problem like wood , but soot or carbon does build up on the chimney insides as it cools and condenses away from the heat source. This carbon is flammable and in the right mixture with air is infact explosive, we call that a " backdraft" AKA smoke explosion, and it is very powerfull.  For you to say that his house burning down is nonsense, is in fact nonsense. I will not guarantee he will have a fire, I simply say he is putting himself and his home in harms way.
Reply:Hmmm, seems that I should have rented the camera and went to the TRACK instead!I was looking for the Camera that I used, but could not find it (SPI maybe?, dunno).  Anyway, it appears that equestrian racers / managers and Vets use it 'religously' to help detect 'injury' or 'possible injury' and Health issues...  Seeing how 'well it works' leads me to believe that ones 'odds' could be 'improved', perhaps even significantly so with such a device!  Imagine checking out the Horses while they're warming up 'pre-race'~!  A person who was 'familiar' with Horses could 'eliminate' one or two quite quickly!  Hello TRI-FECTA!! Cheers,Last edited by jman; 02-07-2012 at 01:32 AM.Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:Infared thermometers, TI's, that thermal imagers, something I have at my disposal at work at any time, gonna tell you what we already know, it is hotter than the surrounding atmosphere. These things work well in many homes as you have said, but we often find the fires related to these are when no one is watching, when we go to the store, when we go to sleep, yes the stove is working fine, then something changed, and obstruction, a sudden change in incoming air for whatever reason something went wrong from the ordinary and heat built up that normally did not build up. Thats why the TI isn't gonna tell you much. Villageboatshop(also in PA) in post #25, he would fair much better with the insurance agent in home for a walk through, he has used a more compliant approach , do you think he spent the extra money because he was running out of room in his bank account or because it was the factory detailed installation method in order to protect the Mfgr. from liablilty and keep the end user safe in the event " something goes wrong" Now you mentioned discussing this with pro's like the Insurance agent. Show that to your insurance agent and in 4 days you will recieve a letter, it will read something like this, A survey of your property was conducted on this day, conditions(they will spell out the installation) were found to be unsafe/negligent cease and desist imediately or policy will be terminated. Don't beleive that, call the insurance man out for and opinion.  Now Jman , would you install this in your home in this fashion. There are a lot of homes out there with BX wiring,flip the switch and the light goes on, but no one is actively installing it anymore are they.   Can go back and forth forever, I am done, we all have our peaves here some guys get plexed when a guy builds a trailer, or trailer hitch, I get nervous when you sleep in a fire hazard.Why? because I have been to fatal fires most are accidental in homes that had been running along until the day, " something went wrong" And I have assisted the medical examiner to place a kid, cooked like a hot dog in a bag, leaves a deep memory.   Done.Last edited by kolot; 02-07-2012 at 10:58 AM."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400