calcium carbide plant explosion

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A calcium carbide plant in Ky exploded in KY last week.  Calcium carbide is used to make acetylene. My local suppleir say he doesn't if and when he'll get more acetylene. I'd stock up Monday if you can.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:The plant explosion was unfortunate, but not nearly as bad as it could be.  This is coming from someone who was working less than 5 miles away from the site when it happened.  I expect a small blip in acetylene prices, but no short supply since the plant in question wasn't all that large.Now, the ammonia leak that happened a couple blocks from my shop a few days later is a different story.  I expect a big pipe repair job from that one.  I don't know where I'm going to find guys to do it, though.  Ammonia leak at a slaughter house.  That's gotta smell great.
Reply:I heard from my LWS that acetylene is going to become extremely hard to get starting this week.
Reply:I heard from my LWS that acetylene is going to become extremely hard to get starting this week.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldrwomnI heard from my LWS that acetylene is going to become extremely hard to get starting this week.
Reply:A few years ago it wouldn't have mattered, because lots of us would be using our own acetylene generators!  I have a Smith catalog from 1941 advertising all sorts of acetylene generators, including mobile ones.
Reply:A few years ago it wouldn't have mattered, because lots of us would be using our own acetylene generators! I have a Smith catalog from 1941 advertising all sorts of acetylene generators, including mobile ones.
Reply:I work for a Welding supply distributor and we are not "just trying to justify a price increase". While the plant that exploded may have been small, it produced over 75% of the nations calcium carbide. Due to this, acetylene WILL be in short supply for an as yet undetermined amount of time.Thank you
Reply:Originally Posted by ironmangqSounds like he's planning a temporary price hike and is feeding you his "justification" beforehand so your not so surprised next time you come in I wouldnt think a small plant would interrupt supply to badly.
Reply:I was told Alaska Airgas has about 19 days of product and expect not to get any more.
Reply:stock up on propane tips now fokes.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Acetylene is also made by thermal cracking and lots of the gas is used in organic synthesis. I wonder what percentage of  the acetylene made that way is bottled for welding? Anybody else know that CaCarbide was an accidental discovery; the fellow (Wilson??) was trying to reduce Calcium but later founded Union Carbide. Not all Unions are bad....
Reply:Trust me when I say that NOW is the time to buy Acetylene. The plant explosion has cut supply at least in half. I know as I work in an Airgas supply. We have all ready cut by half every customer. We are ramping up for Ametelene / Chemtane and more propane.
Reply:Double Pumper what fuel gas would Ametelene be at another supplier. I've seen ametelene in shops but my regular LWS isn't airgas.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:MrLeadMan, Chemtane2 is propane based with a carbon additive. It and Ametelene are trade names for the same item. Mapp is gone and with the loss of production of acetylene gonna get tuff for a bit.
Reply:How do you like Chemtane compared to other gases? Does it work acceptably with propane cutting tips?http://www.chemtane2.com/products/chemtane-2Last edited by farmall; 04-01-2011 at 12:48 AM.
Reply:My local Praxair dealer didn't have any acetylene today and said 6 to 8 weeks maybe.So the Kentucky explosion is affecting the supply here in Canada also.
Reply:Farmall, I just pump it and have never used it. I do know it stinks worse than acetylene.
Reply:Originally Posted by oldcarguyMy local Praxair dealer didn't have any acetylene today and said 6 to 8 weeks maybe.So the Kentucky explosion is affecting the supply here in Canada also.
Reply:Whether or not prices do rise, I dont care, Shop pays for it. We did get a notice in our pay-checks about the incident. We have been asked to return ANY partials, and FULL tanks not being used... Oh well, lightened up my truck about 150 pounds...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:I just bought a refill and the price was about the same as always, $60 for 98 cu. ft.
Reply:I have been running Propylene for years, could care less if Acetylene was not available.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Airgas East is getting 40 percent of our Acetylene orders and we are still ramping up Ametelene and Cheshire is scrambling to get Propylene out faster. Steel is limited at this point. Workin' my butt off to get product out.
Reply:It's plasma cutter time. Our shop will be looking at adapting the plasmas to cut bevels on pipe this coming week.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:We were notified that contracted customers supply would be cut in half and that  there would be no guarantee for as needed customersWe have actually ramped up production of both hand held and mechanized plasma, first as demand for these systems has risen dramatically (before the plant explosion, and second....we have seen another pretty dramatic upturn in system orders since the explosion. You cannot do everything with a plasma that an oxy-acetylene torch can.....but many of the cutting applications can be covered, some much more effectively with the latest technology plasma systems.Jim Colt  Hypertherm
Reply:I used propane before and starting to use it again.  I got a bottle o2 the other day. They told me they were taking no new acetylene accounts and current are limited to a bottle for bottle exchange so none of their accounts could they to stock pile it.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Here is a follow up story from Tuesday.http://www.courier-journal.com/artic...de-meet-demandCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:The LWS I work at is announcing within the next week that prices for Acetylene are going to jump between 30-45% I've already converted my biggest users to Propylene. Carbide Industries had two facilities, but the one that exploded produced the bulk of Carbide for Acetylene production. Lost in all this is the fact that two employees died, and two more were hurt.
Reply:TozziWelding:I have been running Propylene for years, could care less if Acetylene was not available.
Reply:Well, I guess I'll add my two cents worth. Yesterday, one of our primary instructors at the college said that contrary to what their LWS had promised at first, "we will not have any acetylene until the acetylene production problem is resolved" which seemed rather cryptic but they also said that they tried a bottle of propylene for welding with very disappointing results. I understand that OAW is not a big process these days with all the other alternatives but for schools that still have programs that include 8 - 10 credit hour classes in oxy-acetylene welding (like the one I attend) its not easy to just modify the curriculum at a moments notice. So, with no less than 4 extremely seasoned instructors on hand at the time, they reported "horrible looking welds, and an extremely difficult and touchy neutral flame. Add to that the apparent fact that propylene does not dissipate in the air like acetylene does and you have a surprising fireball every time you light the torch" - not a problem for seasoned oxy-fuel welders but I see some new students having big problems with that. The instructor went on to say that there is a lot of mixed opinions and very little relevant info about what torch tips should be used for welding with propylene. I had originally planned to get my last OAW class out of the way this next semester but decided to drop it and replace it with advanced GTAW until either the acetylene issue is resolved or (hopefully) the OAW process class requirements are scaled down at this college. Its a good school and has a great reputation in SE Michigan but they have kept these classes for some reason even though they admit that its unlikely that I will ever need to prove proficiency in OAW. OFC is a totally different story and propylene appears to be great in this application.Does anyone have any first hand exp. welding with propylene and if so, would you care to share some recommendations on tip sizes and procedures for oxy-propylene welding?Thanks,Eric.
Reply:You hit the nail on the head Eric. We have cutting operations covered with a variety of alternate gases. But oxyfuel welding is a process best left to acetylene. I got my torch class done last spring, although I should have taken it much earlier. I say they get that furnace up and running ASAP!!City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I've been a gas welder for a long time and love it. It has so many advantages in many instances that I have resisted getting a tig unit. I've called Airgas and they have told me that this situation will not be resolved for over a year as the federal government has yet to start their investigation as to what happened. They are going to have to re build the ovens and that will take some time too. The plant in Kentucky that blew up supplied about 85% of all the calcium carbide in the US. They did not supply Acetylene but the chemical used to make acetylene. Airgas says that they are looking into importing calcium carbide from South America to meet the demand but pricing will be higher....much higher. Right now, Airgas is only supplying their contract customers who are dependent on it for their business. No private sales are being allowed right now. I've also checked several other welding supply companies and they all say that acetylene right now is not available. I am sure that there will be an increase in demand for TIG units now that Acetylene will be more expensive and less available.  I've been putting off getting a TIG but it looks as if my gas welding days are numbered.
Reply:Ok all you so called experts fact you cannot weld with any other gas than acetylene period . You can braze with most fuel gases and for cutting you are wasting money if you are not using natural gas or propane . We cut and preheat with natural and cut up to 17 inch thick with it all the time , switched from mapp in our new shop with no problem. Run our gas at 40 lb and ox at 60 lb . With injector cutting torches you run 4 oz pressure.   John   PS  Buy a plazma and tig  save money !!!
Reply:Cutting and welding are the same thing?"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:StevefromOhio, StevefromVermont here. I work at an Airgas plant and while our supply is down to 40 percent we have not stopped selling to "walk-ins". Large order/businesses are getting what amounts to a priority due to the desire not to cripple a business and put people out of work. And yes profit for AG too. At this point there has been no price increase, that said, it will go up to start with by simple supply and demand. I may work there and yet I will predict it will increase because AG will again be making money.I did hear that it may take 2 months for the FED's to investigate and then a few months for new permiting. Then a build. I have ALSO, heard RUMOR that it won't be rebuilt. At this time all of the employees are working and my sympathies go out to the familys of the dead and injured.
Reply:Originally Posted by PavinsteelmanOk all you so called experts fact you cannot weld with any other gas than acetylene period . You can braze with most fuel gases and for cutting you are wasting money if you are not using natural gas or propane . We cut and preheat with natural and cut up to 17 inch thick with it all the time , switched from mapp in our new shop with no problem. Run our gas at 40 lb and ox at 60 lb . With injector cutting torches you run 4 oz pressure.   John   PS  Buy a plazma and tig  save money !!!
Reply:its not easy to just modify the curriculum at a moments notice.
Reply:Farmall, you refer to gas welding as a 'niche market'; what, in your experience, does that market include? Just out of curiosity.-Marc
Reply:Just curious, but why is it said that you cannot weld with propane?  Is it the heat or something else?  I have used propane to cut and braze with but have not tried to weld steel with it.
Reply:Farmall, you refer to gas welding as a 'niche market'; what, in your experience, does that market include? Just out of curiosity.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallNot strictly true. Sounds like bureaucratic inertia. I've worked in a community college and changing the actual floor activity is basically as easy as giving the orders.
Reply:Before state funding died, we ran four days/week 0700-1730 with a half hour for lunch and two fifteen minute smoke breaks. Our course had one safety/orientation day and everything else was pure welding wide azz open. It was a continuing ed course only nineteen weeks long but we still turned out a good ratio of grads who passed 6G pipe and (bottom line) are working.Nothing beats "time under the hood".  Our instructor (I ran the toolroom and did equipment maintenance) would take the students who were ahead (it was self-paced) and set them up on a welding table with a mix of six or eight pipe coupons (2" schedule 10 stainless/2" schedule 40 carbon/6" schedule 40 carbon) in 6G position and tell them to "hurry up"! They thrived on it. No waiting on cool down, just GO to the next one. Other fun things to do:Make a restrictor plate and weld 6GR practice pieces. Put pipe sections etc next to your workpiece to simulate welding on a water wall boiler. If you know any boilermakers or your instructors do, they might be able to get a scrap water wall panel for practice. Cut out a section and use the single-tube-width hole to restrict your access to your work. That makes the actual workpiece quickly swappable since it's just tacked in place.If you have a machine at home, make a practice tree for the house.Very useful Old School stick and scratch-start TIG trick:Cover your amp indicator (we taped over our Idealarc pointers), randomly reset it without watching, then adjust your heat on a piece of scrap without looking at the indicator. This replicates a common weld test situation where you use the most beat-up machine the company has that still runs. (The good ones are working on the jobsite, and a thrashed machine is a challenge!)  Our students NEVER saw their Idealarc pointers except when the tape fell off. It didn't matter, and that's the point. They could go to a jobsite and yell down to whoever was on the power source to turn it up or down and be good to go.Last edited by farmall; 04-17-2011 at 09:37 PM.
Reply:farmall:Whats this about welders having pointers which indicate current ?I have been stick welding (or trying to rather...) for 30 yrs. withan OLD miller (idealarc?)which just has a bolt which goes up and down in a slot.  About 20 coats of paint.NO numbers ....  perish the thought.  I don't know 40 amps from 140, but I do know when its too hot or cold .. sometimes I candetect one turn of the handle.I made up for all that depravity of technology with the new Dynasty 200 !
Reply:Acetylene has more uses beyond just welding. True is it the ONLY fuel gas for fusion welding of steel, PERIOD. Aviation is probably one of the biggest users in this reguard. The other big users are foundrys and shops doing cast iron repairs, and places running thermal spray welding setups or hardfacing. Throw in certain heat treating operations. OF probably wont be taught in schools anymore, as most of the instructors dont even know the OF process anyway.  Oh well, the fewer people wasting acetylene cutting up scrap just lowers the dsemand and thus price for those of us that need it. I use propane, acetylene and hydrogen myself.