storing 7018 electrodes

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If I'm not welding pipe, just square tube for building tables and shelves in my woodshop, is it necessary to store 7018 rod in an electrode oven?I saw one DIY suggestion for a rod oven:  a black iron pipe nipple with threaded end-caps stored on top of a hot water heater.   Would that be enough moisture protection of the rods for non-critical welds?
Reply:We just keep them in our work truck, we don't have rod heater, but i keep the next rods I'm using in a weld right next to the weld so the steel heats the rod up before i actually use that particular rod. However i don't use rod very much any more, I'm all wire nowSent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Reply:You need to get the moisture out the flux ans the only real way to do it is by heating them up in an rod oven. So don't worry too much about where you store them when your not using them the secret is what you do with them before you use them.I keep my rods in my workshop, the 7018's i will just heat up in an oven before i use them, make sure you remove them all from their packing, i've seen someone put Lincoln Con Arc rods in an oven still in their plastic packing
Reply:If you are worried about it, go buy some 7014, and quit letting people misinform you. 7018 must be kept at 250* F to reduce the hydrogen content of the as welded condition usually we are looking for less that 4ml per 100grams welded. If your welding square tubing for joe schmoes stupid table project, use 7014, why, well why the hell not, the slag will chip alot easier than if u use the 7018 that has been sitting in the barn for a year. Steel heating the rod up rite before you use it? That's quite possibly one of the most ignorant comments i have ever read. These are non critical welds, so who cares in all honesty. But get the misconception out of your head that u can just toss it in here or over there and do this and do that and it will all be fine. What most people do not realize nor understand 7018,8018,9018,10018 and 6010 have the same core wire.........So why the hell don't ya just use 7014 and not worry about it. Have i personally welded with xx18 that wasn't in the oven, yeah does it run as smooth, no, have i done tensile testing to determine its worthiness, or done soundness testing, no. Have other people....Yes.... and they determined that without the electrode being in a rod oven at 200-250* F it is no longer classified as xx18. So i will just go ahead and get off my soap box now and tell u, do as u please, but when it comes to welding 4" of A514 with 11018,  3/16 electrode, u should probably have it in a electrode oven. Here is a video that actually shows what we are talking about, as most people are wondering what is this hydrogen and who the hell cares rite? Well technically its Atomic hydrogen. So lets watch it and learn something new today. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv9ApdzalHM[/ame]I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLC...go buy some 7014....
Reply:Originally Posted by tr888Anyway, when welding with the 7014 do you use the same sort of drag technique that you do with the 7018? Or is it the flick technique?When I bought my welder at the LWS, they gave me 7018.  It's in a little plastic box.  Do I need to put it in an oven before I use it if it comes straight from the box, or is it "fresh" and moisture free out of the box and only picks up hydrogen if exposed to the air?  I read somewhere that if it's been sitting out, 7018 needs to go not into a warm oven but into a very hot oven, 700-800F.I have no preconceptions about any of this. I'm too new at it.
Reply:Most people on this board would not know the difference welding with a 7018 rod that been open sitting on the bench for a year and welding with a 7018 rod that is fresh out of an oven 15 min prior.You can also spend $10 and get one of the sealed tube rod holders. A little desiccant inside will absorb any excess moisture.If your doing non code work, forget the idea that you need to use 7018 fresh out of a rod oven. Like I said, most folks here on this board would not know the difference, and those that do, are not on here searching for answers, they know well ahead of time from experience.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I did some fillet weld break test awhile back. 7018 right out of the oven 23-blows from a 4-lb hammer. 7018 that had never seen the inside of an oven, and had been setting on the shelf for who knows how long 18-blows from a 4-lb hammer. Both tests, the top plate bent down over the bottom plate, and I had to beat the top plate back the other direction to break apart. 7014 broke at 10-blows! 6013 broke at 3-blows. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Once I open a new can, I place the rod in the plastic rod cases  with the ''O'' ring for a seal. Cheap Harbor Freight one was $5.00
Reply:I use an air tight Army ammo can to store all my rods. One can stores 3 fifty pound cans with the tops cut off, and some slack along the sides for specialty 5# packages. I think I paid around $15 a piece for the cand but it was a few years ago.
Reply:We use an old fridge with a basic light socket and low wattage incandescent bulb wired inside.  The bulb keeps it warm in there, and keeps it dry.  An old mentor showed me that.Lincoln 250 IdealarcLincolc 255 PowermigLincoln SA 200 1940's with V4 WiscLincoln SA 200 1974 blackface
Reply:Originally Posted by tr888If I'm not welding pipe, just square tube for building tables and shelves in my woodshop, is it necessary to store 7018 rod in an electrode oven?I saw one DIY suggestion for a rod oven:  a black iron pipe nipple with threaded end-caps stored on top of a hot water heater.   Would that be enough moisture protection of the rods for non-critical welds?
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLChttp://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...C3MR/c2410.pdfhttp://www.thefabricator.com/article...-for-beginners
Reply:For tables 7014 would work fine. If you use 7018, just get a Rod Guard plastic tube with an o ring seal, or go to HF and get the orange one. When you open a fresh can of 7018, put it in the tube and only grab what you need and you'll be fine. I've been doing it for years, (non code work). I just bought a 350# oven. I have to replace some wires and paint it up. I can't wait to try it out.I haven't run much 7014, just a couple in the past. It didn't seem to have as much penetration as 7018."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Interesting to read that the 7018 is so much tougher, even not kept in the oven. Of the rods that I've run, I've preferred 7018 for most stuff but it's always been out of the oven. Good to know that it's still decent not in an oven.Lincoln 175HD
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI did some fillet weld break test awhile back. 7018 right out of the oven 23-blows from a 4-lb hammer. 7018 that had never seen the inside of an oven, and had been setting on the shelf for who knows how long 18-blows from a 4-lb hammer. Both tests, the top plate bent down over the bottom plate, and I had to beat the top plate back the other direction to break apart. 7014 broke at 10-blows! 6013 broke at 3-blows.
Reply:garage sale. $5.00 toaster oven. bam.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCNot a legitimate test. The amount of hammer blows is incorrect in stating anything other than u swung the hammer a few times.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manFor tables 7014 would work fine. If you use 7018, just get a Rod Guard plastic tube with an o ring seal, or go to HF and get the orange one. When you open a fresh can of 7018, put it in the tube and only grab what you need and you'll be fine. I've been doing it for years, (non code work). I just bought a 350# oven. I have to replace some wires and paint it up. I can't wait to try it out.I haven't run much 7014, just a couple in the past. It didn't seem to have as much penetration as 7018.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPGood enough for the average bear here. At least I took the time to do something and post pictures here. Now it's your turn to do something other than type. So test away. I look forward to seeing your results.
Reply:Originally Posted by tr888Would just like to confirm -- have you stored low-hydrogen 7018 rods that way too, or standard rods?  Is penetration an important consideration if I'm working with 1/8" thickness square tube, nothing thicker?
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCYou will half to wait, currently the switch to the tensile machine is broken, as soon as its fixed i will.
Reply:if your not using them for x ray welds just get you some pvc pipe and some end caps . It makes some good but cheep rod holders  . glue one side and paint the other ( so you know what side opens.) I do that for my tig wire all so.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCJust weld it with what you got. Here's the deal and why I'm such a stickler, The internet is filled with everyone's opinion, Do you want to be known as the person who misinforms thousands with their comments? Look at the Lincoln website they even tell you this, if you want a electrode that can be classified 7018 that you can expose to the atmosphere u must buy Elbras impermeable 7018.
Reply:I think some of you boys would be floored what is built in heavy civil construction in the pouring down rain with 7018, and not a rod oven on site! Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400Originally Posted by tr888Would just like to confirm -- have you stored low-hydrogen 7018 rods that way too, or standard rods?  Is penetration an important consideration if I'm working with 1/8" thickness square tube, nothing thicker?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI think some of you boys would be floored what is built in heavy civil construction in the pouring down rain with 7018, and not a rod oven on site!
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCI'm not even going to comment on the pictures nor the copyright date.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPSet you back on your heels did it? Some of us weldors don't have the luxury of working in a nice warm shop where everything is perfect. Some of us have to work with what we are given, and in all kinds of weather. About the only thing that shuts down a heavy civil construction site is high winds. Can't tell you how many times I've poured water out of a can of 7018 because some carpenter type left the lid to the gang box open while it was raining. You can't go crying to the foreman, because he could care less what you do for a living. All you can do is what Stick-man is talking about, warm the rod up, and get to welding. I think you'd get a real culture shock if you got out into the real world!
Reply:Boy pressed your buttons didn't I!  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPBoy pressed your buttons didn't I!
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCNo actually you didn't but you have proven my point.
Reply:The only reason CEP pulled photos off the net and not from his own albums is because he was too busy working when he was out there in the real world. I have been there with him several times over the last 20+ years and can vouch for his abilities.1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by JASThe only reason CEP pulled photos off the net and not from his own albums is because he was too busy working when he was out there in the real world. I have been there with him several times over the last 20+ years and can vouch for his abilities.
Reply:Damn we're getting old. Did you mention that half the time your leads were hanging in the salt water and it was raining sideways??1963 SA 200 Redface, rebuilt by me, bodywork by CEP Everlast 255EXT w/W300 coolerMiller 212 AutosetMiller Xtreme 375Bridgeport MillSouth Bend 9" Lathe
Reply:Originally Posted by JASDid you mention that half the time your leads were hanging in the salt water and it was raining sideways??
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPThat was on a good day!
Reply:Now i remember why i usually stick to the AWS forum, The people who respond, are at least intelligent and care about the information they provide to others.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCNow i remember why i usually stick to the AWS forum, The people who respond, are at least intelligent and care about the information they provide to others.
Reply:I started to search for relatively inexpensive rod ovens.  One small 10 pounder says this in its manual: [This oven is]  not airtight and electrodes stored withinwill start absorbing ambient moisture as soon as the oven cools.We recommend removal of electrodes at shift end and storage ofsame consumables in suitable larger holding ovens until reissued.So if it's your only rod oven, you either leave it on round the clock, or you might as well not even buy it. It's not designed to be a reconditioning oven.With the hurricane, welding class got disrupted this week, and my "work area" at home (patio) is all wet, so I will have to wait until next week to try out some 7014. I would like to find some definitive info on the relative strength of 7014 to 7018, since there's going to be 500 pounds of hardwood suspended above my head on hanging shelves made of welded square steel tube.  The shelf's vertical supports will be shaped like a golf putter or a hockey stick and the business end sits on the top row of bricks. Tapcons hold the vertical to the face of the wall and bear some of the weight.xxxxx = brick wall ----------|  |----------|  |xxxxxx|  |xxxxxx|  |xxxxxx|  |xxxxxx|  |xxxxxx|  |xxxxxx|  |       wood on this shelfxxxxxx|  |--------------------------------------------------xxxxxx|  |-------------------------------------------------- Attached ImagesLast edited by tr888; 11-01-2012 at 08:05 AM.
Reply:Does anyone here have a reliable method for testing the moisture content of the flux coating on the rod?-- Found it.  Easier to find than I thought!http://pubs.aws.org/download/preview..._R2006-2PV.pdfOh goody, that was just a "preview" of comming attractions.  Here is how to get the real thing:http://pubs.aws.org/product_info.php?products_id=10The AWS price for the complete document:  $60.00Don't anyone ever try to tell me that knowledge is free, or cheap.  Only rumors and "wives tales" are cheap or free.- MondoLast edited by Mondo; 11-01-2012 at 08:40 AM.Reason: Added link to AWS technical paper and further commentary.Member, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I should add that the small unit according to the manufacturer is capable of being left on for 24 hours a day.  It costs about $12/month to run it around the clock, assuming 10.5 cents / kwH.
Reply:Originally Posted by tr888I started to search for relatively inexpensive rod ovens.
Reply:This guy has been selling these for a while in my neighborhood $60. Hes had larger. http://reno.craigslist.org/tls/3323870049.htmlI have a similar unit, it draws about 6amps.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEP...I don't think 7014 is very good for impact, but I did some bend testing, and it was fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by tr888Thanks for this info.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideThis guy has been selling these for a while in my neighborhood $60. Hes had larger. http://reno.craigslist.org/tls/3323870049.htmlI have a similar unit, it draws about 6amps.
Reply:Originally Posted by tr888Thanks for the link.  I was surprised to see he was in Reno. I would have thought Disneyland:I have 2 Brand New of stainless steel portable welding rod oven.one for $60Capacity 8.9lbs/4kgInput Voltage 120 VAC 50/60 HzPower 500 WaltTemperature 248°F / 120 °COverall Size 5.9x 4.3 x 21.6 inchWeight 7lbs
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideWhy,  just because  you meen the way I spell my name?:confused?
Reply:i dont think CEP needs an oven, he dries 7018   when the ARC startsLast edited by Insaneride; 11-01-2012 at 10:22 PM.Reason: When Hydrogen evaporates