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Im having some trouble with a portable Victor torch setup I recently purchased. Ive never welded before and have read the welders handbook a couple times. Yes Im a newbie. I turn on the acy and light the torch no problem. Add oxy everything is ok. Problem 1, Try melting some steel and the part is coveted in soot. Problem 2, the torch setting changes on its own from what I think is a neutral flame to a flame that starts about a half inch from the outlet of the torch and is long, skinny, and orange. I dont recall turning off the oxy having an effect on the flame. When this happens i shut everything down, did this twice and gave up. Any help would be greatly apreciated. Settings are below.Oxy tank pressure: 1500 psioxy hose pressure: 4psiacetylene tank pressure: 150psiAccetylene hose pressure: 4psitorch model: victor 100fcwelding attachment: 1-w-1 (first time using welding attachment)
Reply:Go to the website listed at this thread and scroll down reading the various tips, books & videos dealing with the subject you're asking about. Be sure you scroll all the way to the bottom, I'm sure there are several topics relevant to you. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=55433Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:"Oxy tank pressure: 1500 psioxy hose pressure: 4psiacetylene tank pressure: 150psiAccetylene hose pressure: 4psi"Not good...You have not enough oxygen. Soot and orange flame is a sign of a flame deprived of oxygen.A good flame is blue. As I use French style torches (similar to the Meco Midget or the aviation torches)I do not know for the Victor.But there is a foolproof method I learnt 44 years ago. Tinman Tech writes English better than me, so I give an excerpt (go to his internet site it's worth) which describes exactly the method."Setting Your TorchI know that setting a torch properly may be difficult with all the pressure requirements and tip sizes, thicknesses and different metals, but here is the standard method used in the American Aircraft Factories for oxy-acetylene welding of aluminum sheet.Select torch tip size for the metal thickness you are working with.Bottles are closed. Regulators are closed - with the screws wound out. Torch is open and ready to flow, 3 to 4 turns on both knobs.Open oxy bottle first...all the way until the upper packing seats. Now, just crack the acetylene bottle until gauge goes up, then add 1/4 turn. Hold torch an inch from your cheek and wind in the acetylene regulator screw until a little breeze is felt on your cheek. Now light the torch - AWAY from your cheek please.You should now have a bushy yellow flame that emits NO sooty trails. Add oxygen with regulator screw until flame is balanced neutral, then add both gasses until your flame is loud, and neutral.You now have the best wide-open flame setting for the tip you have chosen.NOW you can adjust the torch down to the flame you need for the work. The pressures are also correct for that tip size - and you never needed to see the gauges except for the acetylene bottle on startup."With this more than 90 years old method you get the right mix Oxy Acetylen for any torch and tip size.Last edited by Don Pablo; 06-02-2011 at 11:36 PM.
Reply:91bird - Flying an airplane and using a O.A. torch are akin to one another; you don't read instructions and then solo. These are skills that are taught, albeit with reading, not learned on your own in the moment. Get one-on-one instruction from someone, even an enemy, and your learning curve, to say nothing of safety will be greatly advanced. Opus
Reply:Thanks for the help so far. I need help in troubleshooting why the flame is changing from neutral to not enough oxy on its own. How would one track down this intermittant failure? How can a regulator be tested to see the pressure remains the same? Yes when the gas is first set pressures are good then things go bad and either a passage way is getting closed off, mixing in the tip changes on its own, or a regulator adjusts pressures whenever it feels like it. I think Im lookingfor knowledge beyond what a typical welder would posess. Or would i be taught how to diagnose these issues at a typical community college night class?
Reply:Don't get discouraged - I taught myself OA welding without anyone to help (we live in the middle of nowhere). Read and reread then post questions here - you will get it if you stick with it.Good advice in earlier posts - not much to add.I would suggest that you get the Northern Tool DVD on Oxy-Acetylene welding. Seeing it done by someone is a huge help. He spends some time on neutral flame - you will feel a LOT better once you see the video - best $20 you will spend on education for welding.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:I have had problems with long hoses taking a while to purge the air out and doing similar things to what your describing. You could try a different regulator, the diaphram could be sticking, maybe your tip is shot or something is wrong in the mixing tube or torch valve.
Reply:91bird, it would be fast & best if an experienced welder gave you a hands-on tutorial. If you post your city, maybe someone on this web site is living just around the corner and can help you.A community college night class would be excellent.I run the following gas presures- as instructed in a community college night class - LOL!oxy hose pressure: 20 psiAccetylene hose pressure: 4psiAlso, the start up and shut down routine is different that that suggested by Don Pablo.Start UpVerify that acetylene regulator screw is fully out (counter-clockwise) - no presssure on diaphramVerify that oxygen regulator screw is fully out (counter-clockwise) - no presssure on diaphramVerify that the acetylene torch valve is closedVerify that the oxygen torch valve is closedOpen acetylene torch valve fully - 2 or 3 turns usually does itOpen acetylene cylinder valve 1/4 turnSlowly turn clockwise the screw on the acetylene regulator until the regulator indicates 4 psi, and you can hear, feel and smell the acetylene gas passing out the torch tipClose the acetylene torch valve fullyOpen oxygen torch valve fully - 2 or 3 turns usually does itOpen oxygen cylinder valve fullySlowly turn clockwise the screw on the oxygen regulator until the regulator indicates 20 psi, and you can hear and feel the oxygen gas passing out the torch tipClose the oxygen torch valve fullyOpen acetylene torch valve about 3/4 turnsLight the torch and adjust the acetylene flame... increasing the flow from a small flame until the flame just stops smoking... but is not roaring.Gradually open the oxygen torch valve and adjust the flame... increasing oxygen flow so the resultant flame changes from long white, to a neutral flame = two flame cones just merge. If you add too much oxygen the flame will being to hiss-roar.Shut DownClose the oxygen torch valveClose the acetylene torch valve - flame should go out nowClose the acetylene cylinder valveClose the oxygen cylinder valveOpen the acetylene torch valve and bleed the line until both acetylene regulator guages indicate zero and there is no more gas flowing from the tip.Turn the acetylene regulator screw out (counter clockwise) until loose = no conract with diaphramClose the acetylene torch valveOpen the oxygn torch valve and bleed the line until both oxygen regulator guages indicate zero and there is no more gas flowing from the tipTurn the oxygen regulator screw out (counter clockwise) until loose = no conract with diaphramClose the oxygen torch valveRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:the others have given great advice on setup. i'm not sure if i am understanding right. "I dont recall turning off the oxy having an effect on the flame". if your packing nut on the oxy valve on the torch is loose, just the movement of the torch can change the setting for your flame. if this is what you are experiencing tighten the nut till the knob has just a slight tension when you open and close it. i had this problem a couple of days ago on one of my sets. it wouldn't hold a flame and just a little wrench work and presto all good to go.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:91bird. At 4 PSI there is not enough oxygen pressure...so the flame will be highly unstable. Try before to set correctly the pressures. After you'll see if there is a problem with a regulator. You have received many good advices.Rick V. The old aircraft (invented around WW1) setting method is not very different from yours. Simply you preset the pressures at 4 PSI acetylene and 20 PSI oxygen because that works surely on the kind of OA torches and tips sizes you use. But that won't work on all regulators and torches combinations. Regulators may behave differently, and torch designs may be different. The advantage of the old method that you get the good of set of pressures for a given size of tip whatever the combination of regulators and torch and even gases as you can use the method for hydrogen and LPG. For example on my OT1 French torch I use commonly the following tips: (French sizes are given in liters per minute at a standard pressure, and correspond roughly to 1L/m per 1/100 of mm of soft steel)32; 45; 63; 100; 115; 165; 200; 250; 300; 400; 500; 600. So I have at total 12 tips with a heating ratio between the smallest (32L/m) and the biggest (600L/m) of 18.75. the 32L/m is for welding 0.3 mm (1/85 inch) and the 600L/m for 6mm (about 1/4 of inch).So you see immediately that different pressures will be needed or you'll have trouble to set the torch.Whatever the method used the purpose is to get a good neutral flame for the tip you're using...Last edited by Don Pablo; 06-03-2011 at 05:31 PM.
Reply:Hey original poster...I understand why you're using 4psi for both O and A. That's what Richard Finch's book recommends to use when fusion welding thin-wall steel tubing (whether it's mild steel or 4130). Richard says that any setting above 4 would be better suited to O/A CUTTING rather than welding as too much Oxy pressure oxidizes and vaporizes the metal. I am in the process of becoming more proficient at welding thin wall (.03-.08) steel tubing and I had to get a new Acetylene regulator that would actually HOLD a constant pressure under 5psi. Above 5psi it was fine, but below it would pulsate the pressure making it impossible to hold a neutral flame. There are a lot of EAA airplane guys gas welding and most of them that I talked to use the low pressures listed in Finch's book. I found an EAA technical counselor in my town and even though I'm not an EAA member he still invited me over to his house and gave me some expert advice on 4130. Very cool indeed. As far as the neutral flame goes, I think that may be a major part of your problem. See this video:http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=590073163001Adjust the flame this way and you'll be on your way.Also, for the small fee of some time to download about 8 (or so) files you can have the "Northern Tools" video mentioned above for free...http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/eLearning/...newelding.htmlBetween these 2 videos, you'll be welding. After that, just practice.
Reply:91bird, I would suggest that you leak check your torch valve packings with soapy water. jbmprods made a good point, as leaky/loose packing nuts can easily result in a torch with intermittent mixture problems and warm-up problems. I can think of two other possibilities that might be causing your problems. First, you no doubt have single stage regulators. These tend to lose a few psi when you start flowing gas. Thus, make sure that you set your regulators with the gas flowing, and with the approximate torch valve setting that you are going to use when welding. Also, as others have noted, some regulators do not particularly like to hold low pressures, The best way to verify that your regulator is doing its job is to watch the output pressure gauge and to listen for a smooth flow of gas through the regulator. I should note that the actual pressure setting of your regulator is not all that critical as long as it is above that recommended by the manufacturer, and as long as it is not somewhere in the stratosphere (like, say, 20+ psi in your case). The main problem caused by too-high pressures is sensitive-acting torch valves. Actually, given a flame size, the pressure supplied to the tip will be the same regardless of the line pressure. This is because you are using the valves to drop the line pressure to the appropriate "torch pressure" (the torch tip only "sees" the pressure downstream of the valves). There is one caveat: Turbulence created by the valves. This turbulence can affect the mixing of the gases and flame quality. Thus, you don't want to run a super-high pressure. Second, you may have a large restriction like a clogged regulator input nipple or a pinched hose. This type of problem may or may not be evident from the output and input gauges on the regulator. The key point here is that torch manufacturers usually recommend a regulator pressure setting that will yield some desired pressure at the torch valves. This ensures that there is ample pressure to run the torch with the given tip while preventing the torch valves from being too sensitive. However, this regulator setting compensates for the restriction of some standard length (and diameter) of hose. If there is a significant restriction or if you have a very long hose, then your torch pressure might be too low to get a full-size neutral flame. This might even prevent you from getting a neutral flame at all. I suggest that you make sure that you blew out your hoses, as most hoses are packed with a powder to keep them dry on the inside and prevent them from rotting and cracking before sale. This powder could clog things up. Additionally, torches do take some time to warm up. As the torch heats up, the flame adjustment might change slightly. In my experience, a torch should warm up in less than 30 seconds. However, a slight flame adjustment might be necessary after several minutes of welding. This should not be a problem for you as long as you have no leaks and are using the recommended pressures and start-up procedures (and thus not overheating your tip). Sincerely, Christopher J. Mikesell
Reply:Originally Posted by filteredsoulSee this video:http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=590073163001Adjust the flame this way and you'll be on your way.Also, for the small fee of some time to download about 8 (or so) files you can have the "Northern Tools" video mentioned above for free...http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/eLearning/...newelding.htmlBetween these 2 videos, you'll be welding. After that, just practice.
Reply:The copyright info is news to me. I downloaded all the files (and the re-assembly software) about 2 months ago and it worked then...If you're interested in anything else, check that site for other things. I got the whole "Race and custom car metal fabricator handbook" in a pdf, and another brazing, welding, soldering book also as a pdf. Some good resources.-Back to original thread topic-
Reply:Originally Posted by filteredsoulThe copyright info is news to me. I downloaded all the files (and the re-assembly software) about 2 months ago and it worked then...If you're interested in anything else, check that site for other things. I got the whole "Race and custom car metal fabricator handbook" in a pdf, and another brazing, welding, soldering book also as a pdf. Some good resources.-Back to original thread topic- |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:26:44