Tigging stainless pipe 6G

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Tomorrow I start my 6G stainless tig test using an 1/8 insert ring and 3/32 308 from root to cap on the Linde power mate 400 ( think thats what it is, the main box sits outside and the remote box and micro tig box sits inside with me ) and I will be setting the amps with a tong meter as I go up through the layers.  The practice test I did ( started it right after finishing my carbon steel 6G test ) was not bad till I hit the cap and I had to grind down three beads on each side and redo them.  I also missed doing the welds in the star pattern to minimize pull to any one side.What makes this all interesting is that I have to do one side right handed and the other left handed and its definitely harder than it looks.  The biggest problem I have is training my left hand and wrist and arm for that matter to work like my right does so I can not shake so much from training strain.  What have you guys done to work through this?
Reply:Next practic. Do it all left handed. Weld it left handed then turn it and weld the other half left handed alsoThen repeat!Sometimes I'm happier holding the torch in my left.G
Reply:If you have a insert ring you shouldn't use any filler on your root. The ring is your filler.
Reply:Will have to see what the company wants on that, who ever set up the test piece ran it hot and crystallized the inside of the pipe insert but it is all to military specs and I should be getting those tomorrow.
Reply:good luck, i got my 6G tomorrow as well... woo hooo
Reply:I've done Navy spec work that used consumable rings and we used no wire on the root. If you stay within your weld parameters there should never be any crystalized[?] roots. Did you means sugared roots ? If so that would be from improper purge.
Reply:I taped a pencil to a TIG torch and went round and round a cardboard tube when I did my food grade SS ...I also used a metronome to help with my pacing....as you need to go super slow while wiping your puddle round and round like a whirlpool...
Reply:Super slow on stainless makes for some cooked welds.Turn the heat up[not to much] and move on.
Reply:Showdog75 Re: Tigging stainless pipe 6GSuper slow on stainless makes for some cooked welds.Turn the heat up[not to much] and move on. I hear what your saying, but for food grade SS in New Zealand you need to have around 1/3 inch (10-12mm) wide weld (from penetration) on the inside of the pipe and it can not be all bumpy/stacked dimes or be much more than 0.039 inch high/convex internally as bacteria will form.It was really interesting learning the technique, as it was totally different from anything I had ever heard or read...Basically you use very low amps 10-27 amps for .9mm to 2mm SS pipe, 2.4mm tungsten, fit up has to be perfect.  You start your pool going, but instead of taking off and dipping away you slowly extend the molten pool out to 12-14mm wide (half inch) by getting the pool to swirl around like a whirlpool (you do this by drawing circles), once you get this going you slowly and I mean slow (3 inch pipe can take as long as an hour to get around, half an hour being the quickest) creep around the pipe dipping rod rhythmically..you have to do your circles clockwise then anti-clockwise to stop any slight sagging as you go around...It has to be done free too...no walking the cup...not that it's possible anyway...when your done you can't even see where you started...any mistakes, bumps and you fail your test or the pipe has to be cut off and done again...and yep it's right on the ragged edge of blowing a hole right through..It's quite the art over here and the teachers are few and far between...but the pay is huge..unfortunately it's hard to get full time work here doing it...as the employee turnover is so low...and the jobs so few...but once in a while I'll get a contract job...and it's steak for dinner...
Reply:That sounds incredibly inefficient to me... What a waste of gas if a 3 inch pipe actually takes an hour to get around! Heck, sounds like it could even be dangerous in an enclosed area without enough ventilation, with the gas building up like that. Maybe it's just me?Give me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.
Reply:Its slow, but there's really no other way to get the weld smooth enough and wide enough inside and out without doing it like that.If you do your normal type weld..you'll have bits of cr%p, e-coli, listeria, bacteria etc setting up camp in the grooves.  This type of weld is used for milk production, beer, dairy products.  It's the highest paying job over here in New Zealand and the employers are happy to pay...just wish there was more of it.The gas you use is 100% Argon, so unless your in a sealed box your fine... I've got a sample I'll take a picture and post it if anyone's interestedLast edited by satanzhand; 06-09-2011 at 07:06 AM.
Reply:I'd be interested in seeing that, never heard of it before nowGive me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparWhat makes this all interesting is that I have to do one side right handed and the other left handed and its definitely harder than it looks.  The biggest problem I have is training my left hand and wrist and arm for that matter to work like my right does so I can not shake so much from training strain.  What have you guys done to work through this?
Reply:If you're shaking when welding, you may be gripping your torch too tightly. It's easy to do when wrong-hand welding, as you tend to gorilla grip the torch because you're not used to it. Ease up a little and see if it helps.
Reply:Originally Posted by satanzhandIts slow, but there's really no other way to get the weld smooth enough and wide enough inside and out without doing it like that.If you do your normal type weld..you'll have bits of cr%p, e-coli, listeria, bacteria etc setting up camp in the grooves.  This type of weld is used for milk production, beer, dairy products.  It's the highest paying job over here in New Zealand and the employers are happy to pay...just wish there was more of it.The gas you use is 100% Argon, so unless your in a sealed box your fine... I've got a sample I'll take a picture and post it if anyone's interested
Reply:welds4d; If you're shaking when welding, you may be gripping your torch too tightly. It's easy to do when wrong-hand welding, as you tend to gorilla grip the torch because you're not used to it. Ease up a little and see if it helps. Good advise, don't forget to breath either...practice practice will help all that.Primetime Re: Tigging stainless pipe 6GI'd be interested in seeing that, never heard of it before now.I'll post a picture of the finish...not sure if I can do a video...but it would be nice to have one online...as there is no information anywhere online...and its a big money earner and a nice environment to work, just like being in a massive commercial kitchen.
Reply:Yes it was actually sugaring on the small insert and I was not the one that did that, I'm doing the 6G but not for a pipe qualification but as a plate qualification for 2,3, and 4G and a backing ring is used.  The pipe I got was someones failed pipe qualification test otherwise I found out I would have been put straight into a stainless test.  Spot on with the gorilla grip of terror, its the fine motor skill of the left hand and wrist that I need to work on so I will be setting up things that I normally do right handed for my left hand to do and will start working on writing.  Don't worry I do breath when I'm welding unless I get nervous and that hasn't happened in a while.  I may take my ipod in with me so that I can relax more, I did well listening to music while welding at the tech school but I haven't used it since I started work and I think that's what is holding me back at times.I'm going to set up a practice piece at home using some heavy duty cardboard tubing I have laying around thats the same size as the pipe I'm welding on.
Reply:I am working on oscillating with both hands as well but I prefer to run a straight line for a better look.
Reply:One thing I told students when I was teaching was to do EVERYTHING () with your opposite hand that you do with your dominate hand.  It takes awhile, but the increase in coordination is well worth the trouble.  May want to be careful doing a few things at first with your non-dominate hand until you do develop better control."The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.
Reply:Yesterday was bad though I know what caused it and now I just need to let the medication work its way out of my system.  Would have been nice to know that prednisone has side effects that would make me jittery and easily angry and my heart race.
Reply:Damn, that's really too bad man  Better luck next time, at least you know what caused it thoughGive me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.
Reply:Guess it can take up to a week for it to get through your system and it failed to correct what it was taken for which was to calm down my immune system so that I could fight off the poison ivy reactions that had hit a good portion of my legs.  I never had an issue with this stuff till I moved to Virginia.
Reply:Originally Posted by satanzhandShowdog75 Re: Tigging stainless pipe 6GSuper slow on stainless makes for some cooked welds.Turn the heat up[not to much] and move on. I hear what your saying, but for food grade SS in New Zealand you need to have around 1/3 inch (10-12mm) wide weld (from penetration) on the inside of the pipe and it can not be all bumpy/stacked dimes or be much more than 0.039 inch high/convex internally as bacteria will form.It was really interesting learning the technique, as it was totally different from anything I had ever heard or read...Basically you use very low amps 10-27 amps for .9mm to 2mm SS pipe, 2.4mm tungsten, fit up has to be perfect.  You start your pool going, but instead of taking off and dipping away you slowly extend the molten pool out to 12-14mm wide (half inch) by getting the pool to swirl around like a whirlpool (you do this by drawing circles), once you get this going you slowly and I mean slow (3 inch pipe can take as long as an hour to get around, half an hour being the quickest) creep around the pipe dipping rod rhythmically..you have to do your circles clockwise then anti-clockwise to stop any slight sagging as you go around...It has to be done free too...no walking the cup...not that it's possible anyway...when your done you can't even see where you started...any mistakes, bumps and you fail your test or the pipe has to be cut off and done again...and yep it's right on the ragged edge of blowing a hole right through..It's quite the art over here and the teachers are few and far between...but the pay is huge..unfortunately it's hard to get full time work here doing it...as the employee turnover is so low...and the jobs so few...but once in a while I'll get a contract job...and it's steak for dinner...
Reply:Showdog75 WeldingWeb Journeyman, 'Without pics to back up these claims I'm gonna call BS. I do x-ray tube welding for a living and quite frankly I'm not buying this.'Do a lot of welding for the New Zealand and Australian Dairy Industry do we Showdog?The ticket you need is 'Stainless Steel TIG Welding for the Dairy Industry 6G AS/NZS 2980 (formerly NZS 4703)' and my description above is how you do the work to get that ticket.I'll supply some pixs next time I get a job for it.  Otherwise instead of embarrassing yourself trying to be a know it all...take some time and check your ego, you might learn something.
Reply:Pics would be great!Originally Posted by satanzhandShowdog75 WeldingWeb Journeyman, 'Without pics to back up these claims I'm gonna call BS. I do x-ray tube welding for a living and quite frankly I'm not buying this.'Do a lot of welding for the New Zealand and Australian Dairy Industry do we Showdog?The ticket you need is 'Stainless Steel TIG Welding for the Dairy Industry 6G AS/NZS 2980 (formerly NZS 4703)' and my description above is how you do the work to get that ticket.I'll supply some pixs next time I get a job for it.  Otherwise instead of embarrassing yourself trying to be a know it all...take some time and check your ego, you might learn something.
Reply:What I'm saying is standard practice here (NZ)...yes the dairy welding industry is a specialist area, but it's not a secret society.  The information is available.I only work on call for the Dairy industry in New Zealand and I'm in the process of moving countries. However, I imagine I will get the chance to take a snap before I leave.  I'd prefer take video, because it would be a cool technique to learn for anyone interested in make some good money, but that's unlikely to happen, as I'm a one man band and do not own a vid camera... so sit tight..pudding has been ordered for you.
Reply:Originally Posted by satanzhandShowdog75 Re: Tigging stainless pipe 6GSuper slow on stainless makes for some cooked welds.Turn the heat up[not to much] and move on. I hear what your saying, but for food grade SS in New Zealand you need to have around 1/3 inch (10-12mm) wide weld (from penetration) on the inside of the pipe and it can not be all bumpy/stacked dimes or be much more than 0.039 inch high/convex internally as bacteria will form.It was really interesting learning the technique, as it was totally different from anything I had ever heard or read...Basically you use very low amps 10-27 amps for .9mm to 2mm SS pipe, 2.4mm tungsten, fit up has to be perfect.  You start your pool going, but instead of taking off and dipping away you slowly extend the molten pool out to 12-14mm wide (half inch) by getting the pool to swirl around like a whirlpool (you do this by drawing circles), once you get this going you slowly and I mean slow (3 inch pipe can take as long as an hour to get around, half an hour being the quickest) creep around the pipe dipping rod rhythmically..you have to do your circles clockwise then anti-clockwise to stop any slight sagging as you go around...It has to be done free too...no walking the cup...not that it's possible anyway...when your done you can't even see where you started...any mistakes, bumps and you fail your test or the pipe has to be cut off and done again...and yep it's right on the ragged edge of blowing a hole right through..It's quite the art over here and the teachers are few and far between...but the pay is huge..unfortunately it's hard to get full time work here doing it...as the employee turnover is so low...and the jobs so few...but once in a while I'll get a contract job...and it's steak for dinner...
Reply:Ok to get it back on track.I finished the pipe and have gained some control and dexterity in my left hand with the practice and so far I passed the visual inspection and now its off to xray.Welding Supervisor Department of Corrections.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparOk to get it back on track.I finished the pipe and have gained some control and dexterity in my left hand with the practice and so far I passed the visual inspection and now its off to xray.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparOk to get it back on track.I finished the pipe and have gained some control and dexterity in my left hand with the practice and so far I passed the visual inspection and now its off to xray.