Leaving welding leads coiled up during use.?

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..Got another debate goin on.. Right now we have two leads at 110' and 70'. A couple of the local welder repair guys I've talked with have stated that it's bad for the welder to leave the welding leads coiled up while using them. Somethin about heat buildup and creating an electro-magnetic field that screws with the gear.Others say it doesn't matter and just to unwind what ya need to use for the job at hand.. Another suggests going with Tweco connectors at every 25' to make the cables modular. Which sounds good to me. What say you fellas on this subject.?  Thanks..    d:^)  Schneeks.ESAB 161 LTSCommunicate & adapt, diggit.?ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply:There has been a lot of debate over the years on this subject. We were told at one time to always roll our excess leads into a figure 8. Later we were told that's the worst thing to do. EMFs or electro-magnetic fields were the result of rolled leads and were causing equipment failure as well as stress related problems with the weldor himself. Weldor's attitude it was called. personally I think anyone welding in the heat and noise related to the industry for 12 hrs a day 7 days a week for weeks on end will get an attitude that's not good. Is it related to EMFs? They finally shut up about this and we went on with ourlives.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:If you plug a heavy current tool into an extension cord and run it for awhile with the cord in a coil, it will get pretty hot. That's not so much EMF/magnetic field build up as just a plain case of the normal heating of the wires all bunched up in one spot.In a coil, with current running through the welding lead, you are creating an inductor. Whether or not that inductance affects the arc characteristics is open to other variables.So I say yes to heat buildup, and maybe to weld quality interference.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:maybe its the resistance in the coiling of the cables, that causes conductance which is the reciprocal of resistance, when the cables heat up at the curie point which causes the cables to lose its magnetic properties that this happens. Has anyone heard of this?wbolden
Reply:I have seen while on a ship undergoing repair in a naval shipyard coiled welding leads hanging from a hook on a steel post.  As the weldor was working, we could hear the engine driven welder respond in a roar to his striking the arc and running the bead.  Every time the engine roard, the coiled lead would swing toward the steel post, falling back to vertical as the engine returned to idle.I am sure we were seeing the effect of large DC currents setting up magnetic fields as the current passed through the coiled lead.  I am sure this can be explained using the Left Hand Rule and the laws of electro magnetic induction and repulsion.  I also belive that the effects at the arc were minimal.  If anything the inductive effect of the coiled lead might have been like the inductor in a welder that is used to stabilize the arc.This was a "Brute Force" trailer mounted welder, of 1930's design.  No printed circuits, transistors, or sophisticated electronics were used during its construction. Moderrn equipment with printed circuits, transistors, or sophisticated electronics are, of course, a different realityI offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:maybe its the resistance in the coiling of the cables, that causes conductance which is the reciprocal of resistance, when the cables heat up at the curie point which causes the cables to lose its magnetic properties that this happens. Has anyone heard of this?wbolden
Reply:I have a 25 foot torch on my tig and about 30 feet of ground wire. My cart has a post with a hook on it (like a branch of a tree, I loop the cable over the V and the post is in the center of the wire) and I often leave the ground and the extra torch leads wrapped up when using the tig for a quick job (or even a not so quick job). It seems to weld ok and I don't like stepping on my leads/hoses. However, I've recently noticed that all of the screws in my wooden workbench (the tig sits right beside the bench) have grinding dust stuck to the heads (sticking up in a porcupine fashion). Something has magnitized all the screws in my work bench. I can only think that the magnetic field of having the leads coiled around a steel post has had something to do with this. I have no proof, but they weren't magnitized when I brought the bench home and now that I've done some welding they are magnitized. Not real scientific, but I don't have any better explanations. Maybe I need to take a compass into the garage and fire up the tig while I have someone watch the compass. I'm sure we'll see some field generated, I just wonder how much.KevinHobart Handler 210Tweco Fabricator 181iLincoln Squarewave Tig 175
Reply:Didn't mythbusters do something with wrapping an extension cord around a board or stick and getting it to catch fire with a moderate current draw?
Reply:NOT unless the current draw radically exceeded the rating of the extension cord.
Reply:Well I have never heard any of this. I have been welding for 30 some years. I have welded with leads in coils on spools in random piles... Never had any of the issues mentioned.
Reply:Originally Posted by davido30093... Inductance causes an opposition to the flow of AC current,  but NOT DC current...
Reply:Of course, I do know that,  but I was trying to not get too complicated. Thanks for the correction. I will rephrase it. Inductance does not offer opposition to a steady state DC current. It only opposes a "change in current" as you said, so at start up and shut down of the arc there is a short period of opposition on DC as the magnetic field expands and then collapses. I think that the whole issue of using the welding lead coiled or uncoiled in a stick welder is sort of a mute point, because if everything else is OK, it really should not pose any problems.
Reply:As far as Tweco quick connects, 25' seems too short. I have four 50' sections of 1/0. 50'ers work good for me. Now if you regularly weld 75' away, then I might go with 100' sections."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by ticnInductors oppose changes in current. DC circuits can see the effects of inductance, but mostly during the charging and discharging of a circuit as a magnetic field builds (or collapses) in the inductor. Until the field is established the inductor acts a short (it is just a coil of wire after all). When the voltage source is removed, the inductor's magnetic field collapses. The very rapid change in voltage with respect to change in time (dV/dt) creates a large voltage, which can cause arcing.Not that I think you don't know, just explaining for other inquisitive minds.
Reply:When I was welding VPPAW for Boeing several years ago, I had a Liburdi machine that would give me crazy readouts on my computer monitors when the ground cable was coiled. We had to make it a line item in the pre weld checklist to stretch out the ground cable to get a proper weld readout.That proved it to me. YMMVTwo turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:I have a 2400 amp stud welder in my shop.   When your shooting 1" studs the leads will jump 1/4" and there will be a trail of mag particles under the leads 1/8" thick by the time your done shooting even a moderate amount of studs. Heck even 3/8" studs will produce a fair amount of mounded grinding grit under the leads.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.