Just got a TIG

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Need good advice from you guys...I finally got the time to try this new TIG (its one of those CH Easytig AC/DC 200A jobs). . I figured I start with something easy, tried to lay some beads on 3mm steel sheet. The arc seems to harsh, if it was oxy I would have said too much oxygen if that analogy is allowed plus it blows a hole at the end of the bead, seems like the penetration is too deep somehow. Some basics:1.6 mm tungsten red tip ground to a point (I also had a 2.4 but the collet was damaged so I couldn't use it)7 liters/minute gas flow pure argon70 ampsTorch angle about 70 degreesWhat am I doing wrong??? Please help...Here are the pitiful results: Attached Images
Reply:All that red discoloration tells me you contaminated your tungsten and didn't regrind. A contaminated tungsten will mess with the arc characteristics among other things. Second thing I notice is that there doesn't look to be any attempt to clean the base material to remove mill scale. Tig will not tolerate contaminants like mill scale. You need to grind/sand the steel down to shiny metal. A wire brush will not cut it for prep on steel.70 amps on what I believe is aproximately 1/8" steel is a bit on the low side. I'd crank it up to 130-150 amps and use the pedal if you have one. From how melted the plates are at those amps, I'd say you were going to slow..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. Will do try those things you suggested.I did clean but with solvent only (I naively thought bare metal was OK but didn't realise it wasn't so bare after all).And you are correct, the tungsten went bad almost straight away.
Reply:Readding through this would be a good start http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/
Reply:Looks like the argon was a little low too.  u geberally try 15-20 to start with and tune up or down from their.  When I started out I kept a whole pocket full of tungs since my hands shake and I dip the tung regularly.  Keep about 10 in your packet ready to go and turn the crappy ones blunt side up so you will know when it is time to sit down and sharpen again.  The Miller student pac is a great resource that you also might consider investing in.  It's 25.00USD but dont know about overseas mail.  Good luch and welcome.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:Will definitely need more tungstens. I just placed on order with Miller for the GTAW (TIG) - Welding Publication.
Reply:Re-check the label on your gas cylinder....make sure it's pure argon, not a mixed gas that you would use for MIG welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by welds4dRe-check the label on your gas cylinder....make sure it's pure argon, not a mixed gas that you would use for MIG welding.
Reply:Got some more tungstens today and had another go. I guess these look slightly better (slight being the operative word). Read up a little, a bigger cup, paid more attention to arc length. But the tungstens still turn out TERRIBLE. Attached Images
Reply:Again you have contamination issues from all the red dust showing. Post up exactly how the machine is set up and picts of what the tungsten looks like both before and after welding..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I cleaned the sheet with brush to try and get the mill scale off.50 AmpGas flow 7 litre/min (sorry, don't know what it is in cf/min)1.6 mm tungsten. Approximately 3/16 past the cup.No 6 cupDid a couple more beads and believe it or not, the tungsten you see in the pic is actually better than after the first beads (yes, I know. Still WW3 like). Never took a 'before' pic. Have to try again tomorrow.I suspect that I might have been touching with the tungsten. I'm starting to think I should invest in one of those handheld tungsten grinders.The contamination...no idea? Although, I imagine that's a different problem?I would be happy if I could get the welds look OK to start with and address the contamination separately... Attached Images
Reply:Me thinks you have multiple issues going on there.- tungsten contamination  :  You can't touch the tungsten to the workpiece at all (skipping any sort of touch-start or lift-start going on).  Once the arc starts and the tungsten and the workpiece are hot, NO touching.-  too 'hot' : The arc heats things up and melts the workpiece.  If it melts it too much (too hot), then you get melt-through of the workpiece.  How to cool things off?  Lower the amps (pedal or finger control if you have it) and/or move a little faster with the arc travel speed and/or dip the filler more often and more regularly.  Melt a little puddle in the workpiece with the arc and then dip a little dap of filler into that puddle and the filler melts and cools off the puddle.  Move a little bit over and melt another puddle and dip the filler in, which adds filler and cools the molten puddle, move over a little bit and repeat about a zillion more times until you finish the weld.  - clean things before starting :  TIG can 'tolerate' almost NO 'crud' when you go to weld.  No rust, no grease/oil, no paint, no 'dirt', no mill-scale or other metal oxides.  So you have to grind down to clean shiny metal, and then remove the grinding/metal dust and also remove any/all 'crud' with solvent(s).  Lots of folks use plain old acetone, as it removes grease/oil pretty well and dries pretty quickly.  Note that acetone (and many other solvents) are FLAMMABLE and dangerous chemicals if you are not careful, so RTFM (or label or MSDS or instructions, etc) and be CAREFUL.A wire brush is usually NOT enough to remove mill scale from steel.  Use a grinding wheel or flap disk to get down to clean shiny bare steel.- you -may- have a shielding gas issue going on, it doesn't take much of a leak on any of the gas line fittings/connections to cause problems.  And those leaks can often suck in some air (venturi effect) that then ruins the supposed blanket of inert argon you want around the arc and the molten/hot metal and tungsten.  So check ALL the fittings for leaks.I'd say to first leak-check all the gas line fittings, then start with a clean well-ground tungsten (you'll have to lose the 'tip' of that contaminated tungten pretty much back to where the blue/straw color is and then grind the point on from there), and then just hold the tip ~1/8 inch away from the workpiece (assuming a HF arc start, if lift/touch start is involved then start the arc and move to the ~1/8 inch arc length)  and start a puddle.  No filler, no moving or traveling along, just make a little stationary puddle in the steel.  Stop the arc and see if you have a nice shiny little steel 'dot'.  If good, do it again and maybe this time add a dab of filler (note you have to keep the hot tip of the filler within the 'blanket' of shielding gas coming out of the cup or gas lens on the torch, so that it doesn't oxidize as well).  Make puddle, dip filler to melt into the puddle, stop.  Examine, and fix or repeat as necessary.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Haven't had a chance to check for gas leaks yet but I tried again; cleaned the sheet with a flap disk to BARE metal. I did try and take a pic of that and the pic came out real bad but I promise, it was bare metal.The pics:1. The metal cleaned.2. The tungsten 'before, 1.6 mm'3. The stickout4. First bead at 70 amps5. Second at 70 amps (bottom) and third at 80 amps (top)6. This is other side of the third 80 amps to show the prenetration - pic in next post7. The tungsten after three beads. As you can see, it's appalling - pic in next postStill looks like some contamination though. But I know that the gas is flowing. Attached Images
Reply:Last two pics.6. This is other side of the third 80 amps to show the prenetration7. The tungsten after three beads. As you can see, it's appalling.Also, I didn't add any filler. I'm just trying to control the arc for now. Attached Images
Reply:You have a gas leak.  Heed the advice of others and start looking for it!
Reply:I'm hearing you. I will try and get some sort of leak tester. Any suggestions and tips?
Reply:soap bubbles are the tried and true gas leak detectorI offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Stupid question, but are you welding outdoors?
Reply:spray bottle with soap water  mix   ,       then    go to town    spray  all the  joints    , then the hose   ,       back  cap may be missing o-ring   or  cracked    . if theres a leak ull find it with the soap water mix  , more then likely>Innovations are what i leave behind for History
Reply:Originally Posted by WrenchtamerStupid question, but are you welding outdoors?
Reply:Originally Posted by RbeckettLooks like the argon was a little low too.  u geberally try 15-20 to start with and tune up or down from their.  When I started out I kept a whole pocket full of tungs since my hands shake and I dip the tung regularly.  Keep about 10 in your packet ready to go and turn the crappy ones blunt side up so you will know when it is time to sit down and sharpen again.  The Miller student pac is a great resource that you also might consider investing in.  It's 25.00USD but dont know about overseas mail.  Good luch and welcome.Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by jontheturboguyNot a stupid question.... was thinking the same thing or maybe he has a fan blowing in the shop?
Reply:The post flow is set to about 6-7 seconds and I don't move until that stops. I do have one of those small disposable argon cylinders so I could try that one.I checked everywhere I could find for a gas leak. No bubbles or froth anywhere.I'm welding indoors, no fans.All that being said.....now for the 'idiot award'....Remembered what someone said elsewhere about incorrectly assembled torch and turned the collet around. BIG difference! I have no pics yet though but the tungsten looks a lot better and no contamination (I think anyway).I am sincerely hoping that was the problem all along and if it was, I will proudly pronounce myself the 'welding knob of the year'.In my defence, "the manual" was four photocopied pages in the worst chinese ingrish I have ever seen with no pictures. I did try and look for pictures elsewhere, didn't really find a good exploded view and did what I did.I deserve whatever shyte given and will happily accept.I will say this though; I cannot tell you all how much I appreciate all the advice given. If it wasn't for you guys, I would be nowhere with this.
Reply:I did Paul's gas flow test. Not sure if good or bad (not as good as his I think). Please let me know.Did three more beads; 70 Amps, 1.6 mm tungsten, 7 litres/min.Plus a pic of the tungsten 'after'. Its still as pointy and smooth but has some miscoloring.I also got the Miller GTAW handbook, just arrived today so I'm busy reading atm.I do think I am getting on track if ever so slowly. I'll have to put the collet stuffup down to 'lesson learnt' and every mistake made is a lesson. I won't give up on this, intent on getting half decent at least.Hoping for feedback, good or bad. Please be brutally honest or I will never improve. Attached Images
Reply:2nd bead shows promise. The beginning doesn't look bad from what I can tell, but the end is too cold (last 1/3). The very beginning of the last bead loods ok ( the area with the grinder scuff directy above it), but you quickly got too hot. Add something to the picts to give some scale as well. It's hard to judge bead size if there isn't a reference. A coin,  a tape measure etc usually helps. Now it's just lots and lots of practice..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganThanks. Appreciate it.I think you're right, practice, practice, practice. At least I can do that now that I seem to have the machine and torch operating correctly.