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Fellas, I know this is probably out of the norm but is there anything wrong with putting a cap pass of 7014 over a 7018 pass? This is for non critical/code work of a Toyota truck portable winch mount. It's a big @ss piece of channel iron with a winch bolted on it and piece of a 2 1/2" hitch receiver post welded to the channel iron. The idea is to allow the winch to be temporarily connected to a trailer receiver in the rear of the vehicle. All the welds will be in the flat position and basically it's a horizontal joint, rotated into a "V" position on the table. The welds will fill that "V-joint."Here is my reasoning for the 7014 covering the 7018. The first pass will be a 1/8" 6010. Next will be 1/8" 7018 (I'm guessing pros call this a "hot pass"???) The final cap pass will be a 5/32" 7014. I want to use the larger 5/32" 7014 because 1) I have it on hand and 2) it lays down a lot of metal in one pass. This bigger rod really fills the void nicely in the joint I have. If I had 5/32" 7018, I'd use that instead. However I'm not buying any 7018's in that size, anytime soon. I'd just like to know if its acceptable practice to cover 7018 with 7014's, or is that bad ju-ju or something? Again, I'm not a pro welder, so forgive the ignorance and the improper weld-speak. This is why I come to you guys for some quick "schooling." This project is just a fun project for a desert rat-rod Toyota my buddy and I own together. It's Frankensteined with other stuff and we abuse the crap out it, just for fun. It's purely an off road hunting buggy we have. Thanks guys.Last edited by SuperArc; 12-10-2013 at 10:12 PM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I don't see why you couldn't do that. I would just use 7018 all out though, no need for the 6010 or 7014. The weld leg size only needs to be the size of the thinner piece of steel. From what you have said, prob the square tube which I would guess is 3/16" or 1/4" wall. A 3 bead pass of 7018 should be right around 1/4" weld. 1 root pass and 2 to cover that.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:7018 over 6010 is plenty. covering it with same tensile strength rod (7014) doesn't make sense to me. especially one prone to slag included holes on large weave cover passes. jmvho.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Sure, go ahead. I have seen equipment and truck repair shops where they welded everything with 7014. They were not professional welders, someone told the boss they should use 7014 years ago and that's all they ever bought until I got there. It was supposed to be an easy to weld rod for occasional welders.Of course you will lack the toughness that a 7018 deposit would give you but if you don't need it for the application then weld it up. If it was me I'd weld it 7018 because that is all I keep in stock other than some 6010, 6011, some leftover jet rod (7024), some leftover stainless and some hard face. My question to you is why bother with 7014, it is very similar in all it's characteristics to 7014 except for the lack of a tough, crack resistant, low temperature tolerant, low hydrogen deposit.Oh yeah open packages of 7018 need an oven for storage, 7014 doesn't. Now that I have rod ovens that is no longer an issue."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:7018 for the whole thing and never worry about it again. 7018 is a far superior weld deposit than 7014. That's why it is a structural and pipe code rod. 7014 is not. 7018 welds much better out of position than 7014 also. 5/32 is not much larger than 1/8. Just slow down and weave the 1/8 a little.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I agree. Just weld it out with the 7018.
Reply:Root pass with 6010 - weld it out with 7014 But then I happen to like 7014 anyway - 7018 does get slightly higher ratings in some areas, but it's not like it's a huge margin.The low hydrogen properties are not needed in this case (from your description - mild steel).Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:no need for the 6010 since it is a closed root. I would just use 7018 all the way out.
Reply:Thanks guys for the tips. Just to answer a few general questions...I know I could weave the 7018, but having the larger 5/32" seems to really fill a wide v-grove with better appearance than the 7018's. Second, I never buy 7018 unless I have a big project and I could use the 7018 rather quickly. It sucks not having a rod oven and that's the primary reason I don't use 7018's much. I also figure that the 6010 root pass, couped with the second pass of 7018 will actually take the brunt of the load/stresses. The final third and bigger pass weld bead of 7014 is really like a cosmetic "cover up" for it all. At least that's how I'm looking at it in my mind. Melting that 5/32" 7014 is like spreading "butta" on a hot bagel in the morn'n. I just wanted to know from you all if I was totally F%#+!NG something up by putting a less ductile filler metal (7014) on top of 7018. There is a video from DarlingtonFarm on YouTube, where he did the same project I'm doing. However, he used 1/8" 6010 for the root, followed by a HUGE 1/4" 6013! It looks really awesome cosmetically, but I would be more afraid of that 6013 cap pass failing under some pressure and/or shearing, regardless of that whooping 1/4" electrode monster he used! As we all know, 6013 doesn't penetrate for $h!+. I figure my 7014 on top of 6010+7018 would be slightly better but "good enough" for my use. Because it's a "closed root" then, I guess I won't even bother with 6010. Thanks for that Scott Young!Minnesota Dave, thanks for that chart too! Also, not saying I'm "all that" (because I'm not), but I've practiced so much with both 6013 and 7014's that I'm great at avoiding worm holes. I've burned so FRICKN much 7014's that I should own stock in Forney! Therefore, I'm completely comfortable with welding 7014's in all positions and little if any slag inclusions. Now that I got some great responses to my question, I'll go ahead and fire away with the plan. Thanks again guys! Here's Darlingtonfarm's video I mentioned:Last edited by SuperArc; 12-11-2013 at 12:50 AM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I think your fine with the 7014. The only problem I see is that if you have a ginormus bead it is not really desirable because impurities can pool in the center. Stringers or a weave are better IMO. If your using your Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 you will need to use AC as well since 125 amps is nowhere near enough to that bigger 7014 as well. Edit: I don't want say anything bad about someone's piece of equipment but those Deere colors on that Lincoln in the video are out there. I wouldn't try to emulate his build either. I'm not a 6013 hater, it has it's place and is fine IMO for most non critical work, but worm holes on a winch mount are less than adequate IMO.
Reply:Cap away with that 7014! For what you described, you'd be fine with just using 7014 for the entire project. The winch itself is bolted to the channel you say. I assume you'll have long stringers of weld running down both sides of the square hitch tube, joining the C-channel length. Even if you welded it all up with 6010 exclusively, that mount wouldn't go anywhere. 7014 alone would work just fine for what you want to do. I agree, big 7014 rod looks downright puurty when it's melted right. 7024-Jet however still beats out 7014 as the "King." With 7014, you have easier long term storage for a guy that doesn't have an over either. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:The weld leg size only needs to be the size of the thinner piece of steel.Last edited by baimasanji; 12-11-2013 at 02:35 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by baimasanjiThe weld leg size only needs to be the size of the thinner piece of steel.
Reply:You need 150-165 amps to properly run 5/32 7014 and or 7018.Sounds to me like your not confident or skilled enough with the 7018 to make a visually appealing cap pass. Myself, I can make 7018 look as nice or nicer than any other rod out there, but that's me. I think your way over thinking this project using 3 different rods for the job when one rod would do the whole thing with acceptable results.Last edited by snoeproe; 12-11-2013 at 08:29 AM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:FYI: Not that it matters, and very UN-scientific way of testing! I did some fillet weld testing with different rods. 7014 took 10-blows to break. 7018 that never seen the inside of an oven broke with 18-blows, and 7018 right out of the oven broke with 23-blows. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:but those Deere colors on that Lincoln in the video are out thereHey, John Deere green was good enough for Billy Bob to use when he declared his love for Charlene on the town water tower, or don't you remember the song by Joe Diffie?
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeYou need 150-165 amps to properly run 5/32 7014 and or 7018.Sounds to me like your not confident or skilled enough with the 7018 to make a visually appealing cap pass. Myself, I can make 7018 look as nice or nicer than any other rod out there, but that's me. I think your way over thinking this project using 3 different rods for the job when one rod would do the whole thing with acceptable results.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeSounds to me like your not confident or skilled enough with the 7018 to make a visually appealing cap pass. Myself, I can ...
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVILI think he could use 7014 exclusively and be done with it. The 5/32 7014 lays down a lot of metal and looks good. For a winch mount, it will hold just fine. I've seen crappy cold welds of who-knows-what-type-of-electrode was used on Chinese junk, by Harbor Freight and the products held fine. So a good pass of 7014 will be no problem. The 5/32 rod is actually easier, faster to lay down in one pass and "cleaner" looking than 1/8 7018 in IMVHO.My point is that 7014 gets a bad wrap, when it's actually a fine rod when welded in the higher amperage range. For 5/32, I like around 175 amps on AC AND 165 for DC. I weld corrals with 7014 and they've held up to cattle smashing/pressing and scratching their heavy bodies against the railing for years. Never had a weld fail yet. I also don't think its a bad idea to use 6010/6011 to dig in first, followed by a cover pass of 7014. There is nothing wrong with that route if one so chooses. Though I do agree that 3 different rods are totally unnecessary for this project.
Reply:If your not using dry rods I don't think it would make a difference. That being said, I would do the root and hot pass in 6010 and then a multipass cap with 1/8 7018.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveRoot pass with 6010 - weld it out with 7014 But then I happen to like 7014 anyway - 7018 does get slightly higher ratings in some areas, but it's not like it's a huge margin.The low hydrogen properties are not needed in this case (from your description - mild steel).
Reply:Originally Posted by SeilerCurious as to what book this is from? |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:25:06