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Took me a while to get up the courage to post a pic of something I had made...Anyway, I salvaged a couple of 20-foot lengths of 3/8 wire rope that I thought I could use to drag logs out of the woods with. On each piece, one end had a nice factory-made loop, but the other end had a loop made of those U-bolt clamps. I wanted something a little more low-profile, if not more reliable.The pic tells most of the story. I cut a couple of short pieces of tubing into halves lengthwise and then clamshelled them together with the doubled-back cable in the vise. Tack one side, flip it over, weld the other side, flip it over, weld the tacked side. When you have it in the vise, hammer the tubing down so there is a minimum of airspace between tubing and cable. Tighten the vise until it (or you) squeaks. Not artful welding, but I'm learning. It works great.Tim Attached Images
Reply:When that flies apart remember to duck. I have pulled on the clamps you didn't like till the cable broke, the clamps were fine. Good Luck
Reply:Looks very good and professional, but I would set the swages on an anvil or a good solid surface and center punch the swages on the "dead " side so it further crimps into the cable. I say this only to buy a little "insurance for you or others helping you. When a rope breaks it usually only messes up your day, when a cable breaks it can mess up your life. JMHO, MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardWhen that flies apart remember to duck. I have pulled on the clamps you didn't like till the cable broke, the clamps were fine. Good Luck
Reply:I would be afraid of those homemade ferrules, the clamps your replaced are better. My experience with breaking cables they tend to break at the ferrule or the cable clamp, I would be afraid of yours slipping out. You could eye splice the ends of the wire rope which is a stronger way to finish a end than a ferrule or a clamp. Try going to animatedknots.com and looking at the eyesplice it is the same for the wire rope you have. I learn how to do it from a old guy that used to rig for Barnum and Bailey Circus setting up the flying trapeze. Thought I might throw out something I know because I am just learning this welding stuff
Reply:I agree w/ Dlama, an eyesplice would be best. Then get some tube large enough to fit over the splice and do vise sqeeze, tack thing over the "whiskers" so no one gets stabbed. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I also agree. Even for ''just around the house'' i still would'nt trust it. The last thing you want is that to break under high tension.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:To use that cable under any tension is asking for trouble.I would scrap that idea.
Reply:The comments here made it clear that more testing was in order, so I went out and attached one end of the cable to a tree, the other end to my pickup. With repeated sharp jerks I was able to get one of the connections to slip.So 86 this idea.But hey, I did manage to post a picture! First time ever, on any forum.Tim
Reply:Glad to hear that. When cable/ wire rope breaks under high tension it's stored up lots of energy. And God help whoever is in it's path!!!! MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I wouldn't put 100 Lbs of tension on those. Done properly a triple cable clamp is fairly reliable.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Twist a loop in the end. It is as strong as the line itself.
Reply:I used to use a dozer as a logging skidder. I used the commercial chokers they sell at the skidder dealer. One type has lug swaged on one end while the other has an eye that is swaged. (There is also a sliding steel catch that the lug end fits in to make the choke.) Trust me, the swages work. Of course these swages are crimped on with many tons of force and grip both the standing rope and the bitter end. A problem with using the bolt on clamps is the bloody things hang up on just about every stump or rock or anything else you drag the logs around, including other logs, and this causes the wire rope to bend and kink and stretch and snap weakening the rope at the clamp. That's where it breaks. The swages don't usually hang onto stumps or catch on other debris. The clamps are fine for straight line pulls, but I didn't like dragging them around.If you are going to swage the eye get the right parts and use the right tools to crimp 'em on. As a make-shift in a hurry you can use a blacksmith's hammer using the cross peen to crimp the swag parallel to the rope, not accross it. You will need some sort of anvil to do this. A foot or so hunk of RR rail works well. (So does the flat on top of the dozer blade!) Hand swageing will provide 95% of the wire rope strength, if done right. Use zinc plated or tin plated swages. These should be available from any merchant that sells wire rope. Or see http://www.usrigging.com/sleeves.html - MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Some "more attractive" mechanical clamps (nuts and bolts) can be found here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#wire-rope-clamps/=3uqjqj
Reply:Those all say NOT FOR LIFTING.Well where in the heck do you get ones for lifting???Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:I looked a few pages ahead and all the end fittings, including the multi-Ubolt style all say "Not For Lifting". I suspect that's to protect from liability. The OP says he's "pulling" logs so they should be fine for that. I do agree with others about breaking a wire rope under tension (or a fiber rope, even a chain), the whip lash that will be produced could sever a limb (personal limb, not tree.. maybe both). I've cleared many trees off properties and personally I would use chain and grab hooks. Much easier than wire rope to wrap around a log and hook back onto itself. If wrapped proper the chain will "bite" tighter onto the log as you pull.
Reply:a really thourough (by my standards) treatise on wire rope.half way down are many example of terminations. some i like, some i dont.-i hate those sloppy looking saddles too.http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/Last edited by dsergison; 10-01-2009 at 02:42 PM.
Reply:That's a pretty good link, but I see one thing missing.Hand woven wire rope splices must not be used in a situation where the rope can be allowed to twist, or they can unwind themselves. There is no problem using them when both ends cannot rotate (say, for a circus tent tie down), but on a live load, or with a swivel, etc, woven splices are very dangerous.
Reply:Lifting vs. pulling, the percentage safety factors are very different.A proper swage, sized correctly, and installed correctly, to the manufacturer's specs, is as strong or stronger than anything else.I would use the two or three U-bolt system, before ever considering some home-brewed swages.
Reply:for pulling a safety factor of 3:1 must be maintained for overhead lifting its 5:1A sling rated for lifting 1000 lbs must have a minimum breaking strength of 5000lbs.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:If you untwist the rope to 2 1/2 the length of the loop you want, then tie an overhand knot in the ends until it settles back in it's twist, then keep going overhand with the ends until the loop is complete, then keep twisting the tag ends until the end, then serve the ends with wire, you will have a loop as strong as the line itself. It can be used for lifting and pulling and will not come out whether spinning or not.
Reply:Bob's description also describes how an eye is woven into a wire rope assembled with a swagged anchor.Both small:Attachment 39664and larger sizes too:Attachment 39663Last edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:41 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by BobIf you untwist the rope to 2 1/2 the length of the loop you want, then tie an overhand knot in the ends until it settles back in it's twist, then keep going overhand with the ends until the loop is complete, then keep twisting the tag ends until the end, then serve the ends with wire, you will have a loop as strong as the line itself. It can be used for lifting and pulling and will not come out whether spinning or not.
Reply:What you just described is what I was taught is a "molly hogan. In my experience w/ it do not under any circumstances lift or pull w/ it unless you put THREE clips(cable clamps) on it tying the live and dead ends together. And as always, put the saddles on the live end( don't saddle a dead horse). Trust me, I learned long ago w/ no personal injury or property damage this is the only way they can be used. I've only used them when no professionally made rigging was available and never used them for lifting anything except what was known to be waaaay under the capacity of the cable!!!! JMHO, MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:looking at the first foto, there is no real bond between the rope and the split coupling. itr occurs to me if this was brazed the filler would go into the spaces between the strands and bond to the inner surface of the split clamp..would love to know if that passed the pull test any better..Splicing wire rope can be a daunting task. here is a link to a pictoral of the process for an eye splice. http://www.flickr.com/photos/squarer...7600183894973/ Personaly i would just find someone to swage eyes or nico press the eyes for me with thimbles to reduce the wear on the eyes. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...11574&id=80054 With the nico's all you would have to do is find someone with the right size nico press.Most rigging shops, wire retailers, and usually telephone companies have them. Here is a link to another sight that sells fittings. http://www.unirope.com/endattachment...d_thimble.shtm
Reply:learn to splice i'm 15 years old and i know how to splice a cable or a rope.strongest method out there.safety last
Reply:Originally Posted by CheneyKidlearn to splice i'm 15 years old and i know how to splice a cable or a rope.strongest method out there.
Reply:" Molly Hogan" is a proper term but it is done by splitting the cable end in half, Loop one cable left and one right, you then begin to wrap them along their original twists and you do form and eye splice. This is weaving the cable , not just looping it and clamping it. once the loop is weaved you could tape the ends and pick weight all day, it usually will break anywhere but the splice. The crimps or clamps are to finish the ends so there are no sharp stickers and give it a nice finished appearance. The hydraulic set crimps are not just a straight loop in the cable to a crimp, they are weaved like I said. If I get time and remember I will do a picture step by step. In the past I have picked multiple tons with these , today OSHA or others would go crazy over them. One other thing, don't bother with any cable that has a rope center, no go."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251 Syncrowave 300 30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200 1 short hood SA250 SAM 400
Reply:Wire rope with a hemp or other fiber core has a purpose and is used where the rope needs to run over sheaves in adverse environments. As the rope flexes over sheaves and around bull wheels the strands and wires slide on each other just a tiny bit and need to be kept lubricated. The fiber rope core acts as a reservoir of lubricant for the metal wires and strands. I operated chair lifts at a couple of ski areas in the winter in my younger years. The wire rope from which the chairs were hung was about 2" diameter and end spliced to form a continuous loop. The splice was more than 60 feet long end-to-end. You knew when the splice was coming around the bull wheel as the entire terminal apparatus would vibrate and shake for the several seconds it took for the splice to run through the guide sheaves and around the wheel. We had to keep a watch on distance between the chairs hung on the rope. The grips have a tendancy to slip just a few thousandths of an inch backwards each time the chair went around the bull wheels in the terminals. (If the grips were clamped so tight that they didn't slip the repetitive flexing at the grip point going around the wheels would fracture the wires.) Sometimes one chair would be slipping a bit faster than the others shortening the gap to the next. You really noticed this when working the platform loading skiers as the next chair would come around the wheel quicker than the others. We also had to watch that the chairs were not getting too close to the splice. As an operator I had to notify the lift mechanics when either of those conditions became evident. The offending chair would need to be inspected, distance measured, and the grip pressure tested. At one mountain they put a spray paint mark on the rope just ahead of each chair grip when rehanging the chairs in the summer. We could gauge the slippage by watching the grips distance themselves from the paint marks as the winter season wore on. If any chairs were moving too far, not far enough, or were getting close to the splice the lift mechanics would schedule an early morning or late afternoon maintenence window and either move the offending chair an appropriate amount or just remove it from the rope and re-space the whole 150 + chairs the following summer. I saw this happen perhaps once per winter season. Long ropes: The longest lift I worked was 5200 feet, terminal to terminal, had a single end splice, so the entire rope was about two miles long. At 350 feet per minute it was a 14 minute ride to the top. Try sitting on one of those chairs, 60 ft high, 10°F and 25 mph wind in your face for a quarter of an hour. You prayed that no clutzy beginners flopped getting off at the top - the operator has to stop the lift until they pick themselves up and cleared the unloading area! Novices frequently did flop getting off on the cold days because they were stiff as cadavers by the time they got to the top of the lift! BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!Sorry if I hijacked the thread by going down this rat-hole, but I thought it would be an interesting story while talking about wire rope. -MondoLast edited by Mondo; 10-16-2009 at 12:04 AM.Reason: typical typos.Member, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Sorry if I hijacked the thread by going down this rat-hole, but I though it would be an interesting story while talking about wire rope.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joker11Those all say NOT FOR LIFTING.Well where in the heck do you get ones for lifting???
Reply:I worked at a couple rigging shops for about 2 years and have seen a lot of this kind of stuff. The swaged fittings from the line shop are squeezed on with 500 tons of force. Both shops I worked at had 500 ton ESCO swaging machines. In the 2 years that I made chokers and rigging for logging outfits and large construction outfits we never had any fittings fail ( pull off ). I would strongly suggest spending the $30 on something with the proper fittings on it if your going to be pulling anywhere near the capacity of the cable. But if you aren't then I think you had a cool idea and it looks good. If you go to : www.westechrigging.com they have everything from Crosby plate clamps to stainless rigging for clean room work. They could set you up with the perfect rigging for your application. They'll even ship all over the country.
Reply:In the underground mining industry we use a machine called a slusher.It's a two or three drum winch that drags a bucket similar to a dragline bucket on cranes,only it stays on the ground pulling the muck one direction and sliding over it the other direction.It eats cable like a kid eats candy.constantly dragging on rocks.Cable clamps dont work,they will snag on the timbers or steel sets that support the roof, and pull them loose. Bad idea! Swages use tools that constantly get lost. We use molly hogans (flemish eyes) for splices.Make an eye on first cable,pass second cable through the eye and make second eye around first cable.When you tightline the cable the two eyes form a tight square knot.It wont snag and is stong.Maybe not as stong as new cable but none of the cable stays new very long in that enviroment.For a cable cutter we lay the cable over an axe and beat on it with another axehead.One axe stays sharp for timbering and one for cable cutting,don't mix em up!Years ago I asked an old miner why they were called Molly Hogan.He said there was a whoore in Butte by that name.Old miners will never give you a straight answer,just ask me,you will see.tractor,loader.dozer,backhoe,and all the tools to keep em movin
Reply:real gypo logger's molly hogan!2011 Dodge 3500 diesel duallyLincoln SA-200Lincoln SAE-300LN-25'sLincoln Idealarc R3RMiller Trailblazer 302
Reply:I heard of Molly B. Denum, but not Molly Hogan.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I dont know why but I feel compelled to remind the OP that safety is very important. I work in the heavy equip industry and would never consider using a make shift swaged fitting under any circumstance. If a cable or line comes loose, someone is going to be seriously injured. I have seen my fair share of cable injuries, and all of them were horrific. The injuries were 100% life threatening, and 100% avoidable. I would caution any user to avoid any attempT to make do with a self engineered cable splice or end. There is just too much at stake to risk it. The few dollars you save will not bring back your bud when the cable whips out and cuts him in half. Been there, seen it happen, and notified family members of their loved ones in the hospital. Dont do it!!!!! FOLLOW THE RULES, USE PROPER EQUIPMENT AND GET OLD AND DIE FROM OLD AGE. TAKE A SHORTCUT AND TAKE A CHANCE OF NOT BEING AROUND FOR YOUR KIDS. The rulles were derived from studying what happened, and are inplace to protect you from it happening to you. Sorry if it sounds like a preach, but I have had to notify the families and it sucks...I'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys? Trade?
Reply:I dated a Molly Hogan. She left me and broke my heart. Everytime I splice a Molly Hogan, I ask her (the splice), "You won't leave me and break my heart will you?" So far she hasn't.Last edited by Scott Young; 06-28-2010 at 08:22 AM.
Reply:Playing devil's advocate here.. you should always follow safety suggestions, but to put a few anecdotes to rest...http://mythbustersresults.com/episode62
Reply:The boyz are correct. You are going to get seriously injured or killed if you use that thing.
Reply:Splicing is an art form... I work for a company that builds ski lifts and cable drawn tram ways. I have helped with a lot of splicings on new ropes and shorting. The ropes that I mainly deal with are 6x25 ( six strains and 25 single wires in each strain) last summer I was blessed with the chance to help the duke family splice a rope... I understand that I'm dealing with somthing on a much bigger level but splicing a rope ahold be done by someone that is confidant in that area every tuck has to be perfect.. Then there is twist but I will stop here I'm sure I got off topicSIN CITY METAL WORKSvisit my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/devvon
Reply:We use poured sockets to make eyes.
Reply:Hi, Neat idea but I will tell ya there is a easier and more reliable way. You can braid an eye in wire rope or "cable" using a method called a "MOLLY-HOGAN". Look it up on the internet, its easy and damn near 100 percent. I worked in the log woods when I was a kid and have done powerline construction ever since. Molly Hogans are a very handy and often used skill in my world. Check it out and see what ya think for next time!
Reply:Molly Hogan is fine for some things, but not for overhead lifting.I'll take a logger's splice over a Molly Hogan (farmer's eye) any day. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:My cable supplier would put eyes in it for $10 an end. No need for me to try it myself.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:Hey 1-800miner,You got it right, I used a slusher years ago when I was a miner. Not too many slushers or guys who know how to use them around here anymore.About all I could add is a three drum slusher was used in a wide stope. By varying the pull on the outside drums the scraper could be pulled back to the face more or less to where you wanted it to go. Also gear (rockbolts, screen, timber) was often tied on top of the scraper to get it too the face.Used to curse when the cable broke, had to drag the slack out by hand so we could splice the cable again. In some mines the stopes/cuts weren't flat but ran uphill from the slusher to follow the ore. We never had fancy names for the that double flemish splice, we just called it a slusher knot. We always had wire rope cutters, but an axe would do if no cutter was around. cheers!"The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:In 1971 when I was a new apprentice in the iuoe (#12) I worked at an OOOLD asphalt plant in San Diego. The plant was 1st worn out in the Imperial valley then taken apart and moved to S D. I worked mostly on the crusher plant, and that involved lots of repair. They were very low budget and the ole man who ran/fixed it made chokers out of scrap wire rope by going through a oiece of sch 40 or so pipe and then back throughto form a loop which he/we then poured melted babbit lead into. We had 2 cone crushers we had to pour new bearings for whenever we replaced cones. We adjusted them with the D-9 dozer used for feeding the crusher plant. W would wind the cable around the cone c and the dozer would pull cable to screw down the top cone to adjust for rock size and wear. We also (this is the point here) used them to remove/replace the crusher jaws, the biggest was 5 or 6 ft wide, with jaws of manganese steel, which is BAD stuff to weld, we welded eyes to the jaws and lifted them out/back in. The eyes broke off and the cable streched and actually broke once, but those hokey pipe/babbit joints NEVER failed. We melted the babbit out of the old ones and used it over. That was a long time ago!! corne
Reply:One more suggestion when using cable to tow/winch something, in the off-road community for safety purposes many guys carry "cable blankets" so that when winching, a heavy blanket is hung over the middle of the cable...should it snap, the blanket acts to prevent backlash that could injure someone. We're not worried about our rigs, but the people in/around them!Hobart EZ-Tig newbie.
Reply:Snapped rope or cable can ruin your day:http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum...ad.php?t=34198
Reply:i would of braid it back about 3 inches and then crimp it it will be alot saferLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R |
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