Beginner TIG challenges so far...

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So, after a drawn out used machine purchase (I know people were tired of that thread, including me), and finally realizing my machine won't fire up without water in it, I'm finally melting metal.  After an hour or two of dinking with it, I have some questions:1.  I'm having trouble with maintaining the arc.  I have to keep the tungsten (red 3/32) really really close.  And when I do that, I inevitably dip the tungsten in the pool.  Dipping is especially a pain when I try to feed rod with the tungsten close.  How close should the torch be to the work, and how can I maintain a consistent distance?2.  What's the best way to tell gas is actually flowing out the torch?  When I push the pedal down3.  When I get done running a bead (mild steel), there's lots of brown powder surrounding the bead.  I don't know if that's normal.  It brushes of very easily.4.  I hate mill scale.  I know that's not a question, but it's such a pain to remove.I'm probably going to try to find me an instructor to work 1-on-1 with me.  I'm a fast learner, and I really don't want to go through the slow grind of a technical college class.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:You have to have the tungsten really close to strike the arc, or to maintain it?If it won't strike easily, that sounds like a problem with the HF circuit in the welder.If it won't stay lit, it sounds like either you're running AC (with hf start only) when you should be using DC, or else the amps are too low.  Potentially there could be a problem with shielding gas too, since you did mention brown deposits.
Reply:Well, it has HF start and continuous settings. Maybe I'll try it in continuous to see if it makes a difference.    Seems like I need to keep it close to keep it running.  Maybe I'll try running the amps up and try to keep it going better - my "scrap" is 3/16" plate.  I think I was running 120 or 130.  When I ran it way up before, I was blowing holes.  - all things that are easy to try!  thanks for the advice!Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:Originally Posted by patclemSo, after a drawn out used machine purchase (I know people were tired of that thread, including me), and finally realizing my machine won't fire up without water in it, I'm finally melting metal.  After an hour or two of dinking with it, I have some questions:1.  I'm having trouble with maintaining the arc.  I have to keep the tungsten (red 3/32) really really close.  And when I do that, I inevitably dip the tungsten in the pool.  Dipping is especially a pain when I try to feed rod with the tungsten close.  How close should the torch be to the work, and how can I maintain a consistent distance?2.  What's the best way to tell gas is actually flowing out the torch?  When I push the pedal down3.  When I get done running a bead (mild steel), there's lots of brown powder surrounding the bead.  I don't know if that's normal.  It brushes of very easily.4.  I hate mill scale.  I know that's not a question, but it's such a pain to remove.I'm probably going to try to find me an instructor to work 1-on-1 with me.  I'm a fast learner, and I really don't want to go through the slow grind of a technical college class.
Reply:Make sure your tungsten is clean and sharp. Make sure your cup is in good shape and clean inside. To check for gas flow, hold the torch near your ear and listen, but not too close, or pointed at you, or the HF could bite you. Do you have a flow gauge (with the needle) or flow meter (the kind with the floating ball)? A gauge style can lie to you, where a meter tells you what is flowing through the outlet.
Reply:If you are welding steel, get rid of the mill scale no way around it get an angle grinder it'll make quick work of it. you want to be running dc electrode negative, pure argon gas, HF start only not, flow meter set to about 15cfh. the easiest way to tell if you got gas running is to step on the pedal and listen to the torch you should be able to hear it. A ball type flow meter is a quick indicator as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by Vinnie The brown pollution is a gas problem need more info.
Reply:the brown  is either from dirty metal, dirty tungsten, or inadequate gas coverage..
Reply:For how to maintain a consistent distance; hold the torch as close as you can stand to the cup, and look at it from the side, not the end.  The plastic tube that looks like a handle is there to trick beginners into holding the torch improperly.  You need to prop your other fingers or wrist on some nearby metal in a way that allows you to slide along as you weld.  If you just move your wrist, you're going to be a 4-5" welder, and that's no good.  Simulate the weld, making sure you can slide, see the weld, and there will be no cable hangups along the way.Here is a video showing how close your hand should be to the business end of the torch.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3IroU5dv8A[/ame]"Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Thanks for the advice.  I've been grinding the mill scale off.  I turned up the gas.  I have a gauge that the little ball floats on.  I also switched to a bigger cup, and I extended the tungsten out a little more so I can see it.  That helps me see better and maintain that razor thin gap.  I think it's a practice thing.I'm also going to have to switch to a thicker torch hand glove, away from the thin TIG gloves I bought.  If I hold the torch like in that video, my hand will fry!  LOLI actually stuck some wings on a nut last night, and learned a lot through creating spot welds on small things.  That's very valuable to me, as I'm a tinkerer more than heavy metal fabricator.  I also tried fusing some aluminum.  I didn't blow it to pieces, but I did overheat it a few times.  After those 5 minutes, I can see that learning aluminum is gonna be FUN!Oh, I also figured out I had the machine set to AC for some reason during my last session on steel.  Probably explains some of the ugliness in my beads.  I'll bet us newbies drive the experienced folks crazy, but we appreciate ya!Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:It's all good, Pat. I'm learning to TIG also and did many of the things you mentioned when first trying. Like DSW says, one thing at a time. Don't worry about filler rod dipping yet. Just light up on a piece of metal and watch the puddle melt and solidify as you work the pedal. Just move in a little circular motion in place while doing that and you'll see what I mean.You'll be regrinding your tungsten a lot when you start out. If you don't dip it in the puddle, you'll be hitting it with the filler a time or two and get a big blob on the side. All part of the learning curve.As said, Mild steel is DCEN with HF set for START ONLY.Aluminum needs AC and HF set to CONTINUOUS. Bump the gas flow up to around 20 CFH for aluminum.TIG requires CLEAN, SHINY metal, period. Aluminum must be cleaned and brushed with stainless brushes only. Most folks follow that with an acetone solvent wipe down.Have fun and learn a lot!PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Thanks man.  I'll try the circle thing.  I've played with dipping - done a little hobby OA welding.  But, I did hit the tungsten frequently with the rod.  I probably need to buy a half dozen tungsten and grind a bunch!  I'm thinking one of my early projects might be a tungsten grinder jig that fits on my grinder rest.  Couple of 1/4" pieces of steel stuck together with an L on the bottom for clamping, holes drilled in it the diameter of the tungsten.  Adjust the rest at the perfect angle so I can just stick the tungsten through the hole and turn it.I'll try the exercises you suggested with throttling the pedal in one place (and maintaining the arc while doing so.)  That sounds like time well spent.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:Definitely buy a pack of tungsten and grind them all when you start.  I open a new pack and grind ten at a time.  I don't know about other people, but I grind mine on a sanding wheel.  I was grinding them on a bench grinder and it sucked.  I started using my stand up belt sander/grinder and it is 10x faster, doesn't heat the tungsten as much and I get a much nicer finish.  There might be a wheel on a grinder that would work better, but I was just using the one that came with the grinder.  The langthanated (red) ground to a point have worked well for me for pretty much everything so far.For me, there seems to be a point where you are too close to the puddle and it will wick up the tungsten, especially with aluminum.  I keep it tight and try to maintain about 1/8".  Seems to work.Last edited by kazlx; 11-08-2011 at 02:07 PM.
Reply:Red is thoriated (radioactive)Something I found was that at one point i was spending more time grinding tung than actually welding.  I eventually had enough and just snipped the gunk off the end after I dipped it, and then kept going.  I probably used a bit more tung than I would have by grinding the crap of the end, but I saved a lot of time.  Also, at that point in my skill, I could not tell the difference between a ground pointed end and a snipped off end.  Tungsten being what it is, is self sharpening, it will be plenty sharp right after you snip it.  Watch your eyes, the chunk will go flying off pretty fast."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Yea, I meant to say I have been using the thoriated and have tried the lanthanated, which is blue, I believe.
Reply:Folks, thanks for all the advice.  I finally figured out that I needed to get down really close to the torch head to see what I was doing.  I also moved to my workbench and I'm welding on top of a 1/4" steel plate (until I get good enough to weld a table together!)  I just put some spacers under the plate to keep from smoking my wooden bench top underneath.So far, I can run beads that are good enough to hold stuff that's not life safety-ish.  I'm going to build a bracket to mount my grinder on a pole in my garage.  I welded a couple of nuts to some huge wingnuts, and I'm using threaded rod to clamp it to the pipe.  That way, I can loosen it and push it up and out of the way when I'm not using it.  Should be good practice, as long as something doesn't break and my grinder fall on my foot.  Ha!Then, I need to build a cart for the welder.  It's sitting on a furniture dolly right now.  I plan to keep it simple - angle bracket frame, casters, tank shelf, two poles with rotating hose hangers (so I can rotate them and fit it through tight places in my garage.)It's really cool when everything is acting right - the arc is smooth, metal is melting right, move/feed rhythm is going good.  I can see it takes lots of practice to make those "stacked dimes."  Mine are kinda like "stacked chewed gum" right now.  LOL!Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:Originally Posted by patclemSo, after a drawn out used machine purchase (I know people were tired of that thread, including me), and finally realizing my machine won't fire up without water in it, I'm finally melting metal.  After an hour or two of dinking with it, I have some questions:1.  I'm having trouble with maintaining the arc.  I have to keep the tungsten (red 3/32) really really close.  And when I do that, I inevitably dip the tungsten in the pool.  Dipping is especially a pain when I try to feed rod with the tungsten close.  How close should the torch be to the work, and how can I maintain a consistent distance?2.  What's the best way to tell gas is actually flowing out the torch?  When I push the pedal down3.  When I get done running a bead (mild steel), there's lots of brown powder surrounding the bead.  I don't know if that's normal.  It brushes of very easily.4.  I hate mill scale.  I know that's not a question, but it's such a pain to remove.I'm probably going to try to find me an instructor to work 1-on-1 with me.  I'm a fast learner, and I really don't want to go through the slow grind of a technical college class.
Reply:Too high?  That's cool.  I'm running it over 10.  I'll try that.  And I'll look into the summer classes.  Maybe I'll throw in a machine shop class - that would be fun.  Except I don't have room for machines, and I'd end up wanting some!  Ha.I did build the welding cart this weekend.  I used lap joints, and I think I finally got pretty decent with my beads.  I did get every surface super clean.  I found out how to sunburn one of my ears.  And I learned that welding a bolt stud to a piece of angle iron is hard to do.  That's how I'm mounting my casters.  Different melting temps apparently.  The bolt would undercut like crazy.  Tomorrow I'll figure out how to gently wire brush and paint.  I think I'm going to add a vertical pipe (black pipe) that screws into a welded on fitting.  A hook on top of it will give me somewhere to hang my hoses and allow the hook to rotate so I can get the cart and welder through tight spots.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:I don't think steel will get that stack of dimes look.I think that is more of an aluminum thing."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:each dime is a puddle..if you feed the puddle , and move the torch a discrete distance say 1/4 inch and the n start another puddle, you will see the line between the puddles.. Attached Images
Reply:Very true.What I should have said is that aluminum is more prone to producing the stack of dimes look in a more noticeable way than steel is, not that it is impossible on steel."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Ha!  Love those stacked dimes.  I have some aluminum and stainless rod on the way right now.  Just gotta find some aluminum scrap (or go buy some $$$): so I can practice.  Someone gave me some stainless steel commercial toilet paper roll things.  I have no idea what kind of stainless it is, but I'm gonna melt it.I also have some smaller tungsten and collets on the way too - it's an "Airco-style" torch and my local welding shops don't carry those consumables.  I want to try some thinner stuff and small parts.  That's why I bought a 350 amp welder - for thin small stuff.  LOL!When I get brave, I have an antique saw clamp that someone gave me, has a crack in the body.  I don't want to buy a pound of nickel rod to play with.  Maybe my LWS sells it by the stick.  I figure I'll grind out the crack, get the whole thing real hot with a rosebud or something, then hit it with low amps real slow.  Other forums suggested brazing it with bronze.  I guess we'll see when the time comes.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:so as another newbie doing a lot of practice this thread has been helpful.  I too am using the thing tig gloves and find that I cannot hold the torch close to the 'T' part. In fact, I ended up holding it around 2 inches back where the handle got thick as the heat was just too much for me.. Enough that I was worried that something was wrong. Plus my welds were very crappy, nothing like the last time I had practiced.  Turns out some idiot I see in the mirror on a regular basis turned the gas all the way off  Any ways, I was wondering if you found with thicker gloves you could hold it more like in the video, or did you move to gripping by the handle as well?  Is it normal to get the tip of the ceramic cup glowing?  I was playing around on a t joint of 1/4" mild steel at about 175 amps and had it glowing.. thought maybe that meant I needed a bigger cup?  The tungsten was fine with it.miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:Ha!  Nice to know someone is getting something out of this.  There's hope for humanity.  Ha!   It's pretty amazing how that argon makes a difference.  I was welding along on my welding cart with the garage door cracked.  I had a thick leather welding jacket on (friend of mine gave it to me.)  I'd be cruising along and suddenly the metal would start "boiling."  Turns out the wind started gusting through the door.  I couldn't feel it with that thick jacket on.I just got Jody's "TIG finger" in the mail yesterday.  I'll put it on my index finger and see if I can hold it up close.  I have very thick gloves and I can't hold it close.I finally got some aluminum cutoffs, pure tungsten and some aluminum rod - 1/8" thick.  It's my wife's birthday weekend, so it's hard to get man play time.  I'll try to post some pictures of my mess when I get around to making it.Here's the welds on my cart.And the finished cart.  The black pipe is for a hose hanger.  Those are 1000lb steel wheels from Northern Tool - I hate Mickey Mouse wheels that can't roll on a dirty floor.And using my ebay 2 ton chain hoist for the first time, and probably the last for a while, to move my welder from the furniture dolly to the new cart.Last edited by patclem; 11-20-2011 at 09:50 AM.Reason: added flickr linkJunky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."