Getting aluminum clean

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OK, now this beginner believes the advice about getting TIG aluminum clean.  The bead at the top of the photo was over surface cleaned with a Scotchbrite pad.  The second was run halfway on surface cleaned with a stainless brush, and I drifted off the clean section.  Thought I'd share because you can see the shiny clean section versus the dull not-so-clean parts.I'm still getting black specks on beads most of the time.  I'm gonna be searching tonight to figure out why.  Also, when my HF starts, it has trouble "focusing" at first, and it burns the crap out of the starting area.  Maybe it's the AC balance or something?Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:It helps if everything is clean. I.E. the tungsten too. I clean all my aluminum with paint thinner and a wire brush before i weld it. Usually the black specks r just on the surface and u can wire brush them off after but if i\the whole weld looks black then u have a problem. Not bad, keep it up. Good luck!!
Reply:Not paint thinner! It's oil based and will leave an oily residue. Same deal with most citrus based solvents. Use acetone, if you must, but generally speaking 90 percent isopropyl alcohol works just fine, it's cheap safe and you can pick it up at just about any pharmacy, like Walmart. I wouldn't recommend denatured alcohol or acetone if you are health and safety aware. both go right through your skin and aren't good for you. Granted there are so many things when welding is concerned that aren't good for you, but you can control the solvents and cleaners you use.Most beginners get over zealous about cleaning your aluminum. so long as its fairly clean, even though the oxide layer persists, if your AC balance is setup right you will get a good etching action which cleans off the aluminum oxide layer and will cope with some impurities too. Heat control and proper shielding are more important in my opinion.Proud to support Reliable Sheet Metal Works, in Fullerton, CA.Full service sheet metal fabrication serving Orange County since 1926.http://www.reliablesheetmetal.com
Reply:alcohol is bestHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:I tried some alcohol on some other pieces to remove the fingerprints.  It didn't seem to make a huge difference because my beads pretty much suck right now anyways.  But I won't give up.Gotta play with that AC balance.  Are there any rules of thumb, other than experience watching the way the pool flows or whatever?  I understood AC balance would melt the tungsten.  Can you watch the tungsten and adjust the AC balance until it glows a certain way or something?Gotta find me a stainless wire wheel for my angle grinder!  That manual labor of cleaning is for the birds!Gotta be careful with solvents - my brother was in the hospital for 10 days because a can of alcohol exploded.  He was lighting a bonfire on the beach on spring break with it.  No, he wasn't drinking it!  Alcohol burns almost clear and he couldn't see it was burning in the middle.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:Oh, it just dawned on me.  Does the filler rod have to stay inside the argon "pocket"?  And how do I do that?  Maybe that's contributing to crapping my beads up.  Seems like the melted end of the rod tends to get a "skin" on it.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:you will find using a SS brush on grinder/drill will tend to smear alumcan cause the oxide your trying to remove to be pushed into the metal just buck up and do the hand thing it has been talked about a bunch-- pulling filler out of gas pocket or leaving it in-- i guess as long as it's not X-ray welds,,,, it shouldn't matteridealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Yes, the filler does have to stay in the argon; or at the very least, it's one less source of possible contamination.You can use a scotchbrite pad to clean the aluminum.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=47685I took a fresh grinding wheel and used two part epoxy to attach a doughnut of ultrafine scotchbrite to it.The angle grinder makes the job go real fast.  It might be possible to get angle grinder wheels intended for holding the pads."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Hey guys,I gotta challenge a couple responses a bit.To fordman: Your response should have read "IMHO...alcohol is best". Alcohol, while is a solvent, does not have the chemical properties to totally degrease & chemically clean as does acetone. Acetone IS the BEST for alum..To razer: Using any kind of "scotchbrite" abrasive is not recommended for alum. cleaning as it leaves tiny deposits in the surface pores(scratches) that will also contaminate the weld pool.Prop-doctor is correct regarding the alum. surface. Do it by hand with acetone a good SS toothbrush. That has never failed me. Personally, X-ray or not, I keep the filler IN the gas envelope. You simply just have to do a slight more angling of your torch.....nothing radical. Just enough to be able to see your arc & filler application. It's not hard if you don't make it hard.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:if you look up what  a "scotchbrite" is made form (aluminumoxide) then you may --i said may-- be pushing what to are trying to remove just around and scratching the metal --it does remove some... but i quit using them to prep for welding just the tryed an trusted method , SS brush, and acetone as Joe Friday would say: "just the facts man just the facts"idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Well, tonight I had my biggest improvement.  I did several things so I'm not sure which it was.  1.  Switched to a Ceriated tungsten from pure tungsten.  (I think I'll try thoriated too, just for kicks.)2.  Doubled the cup size.  Running across flat plate instead of a corner probably makes good sense.  Welding on an inside corner probably will need me to switch back to the smaller cup to get up in there.3.  I played with turning down the argon flow from 20 to 15 because I'm getting more arc wander, maybe because of the Ceriated?  (probably made no difference)4.  I bumped the balance slightly up from 50 to 60. (probably made no difference.)I also tried to keep the filler in the argon, but it's hard to do without melting it early.I didn't spend a lot of time cleaning the aluminum tonight, but I got some nice shiny beads.  That's something new for me and aluminum.  Maybe tomorrow night I'll scrub it good, and hit it with some acetone.  Heck, maybe I'll scrub a piece with the SS brush, cut it in half, use alcohol on one half and acetone on the other.  I'm probably not consistent enough to make it a really good test, but maybe I'll get some interesting results.  It's all pretty clean stock to start with...Thanks again everyone for your comments.Junky Airco Heliwelder 350 TIG (ESAB)Hobart Beta-MIG 250 with Miget spool gunJunky LTec 225 MIGESAB PowerCut plasma cutterOA welding and cutting"Better grinder than a welder."
Reply:If the filler is melting early, you might try using a filler rod one size larger.Try.. see how it works, what works best for you.If you haven't already, you could check out http://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricksHe has a number of videos about welding aluminum."Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Ive cleaned hundreds of feet of aluminum to be welded with a scotchbrite pad/disk and never had an issue.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:I know you all have reasons for cleaning your aluminum so perfect. But Ive welded aluminum almost steady for the last 48 years. steady like in a couple hours a.week even since I retired. Ive repaired broken scags, made gas tanks. Built boats, wire welded with a spool gun from a boom truck on power installations.  If it can bee broken or made and its aluminum or Magnesium Ive probably welded it. Ive never once in all those years had to clean anything with Acetone. Ive cleaned with soapy water, solvent ,Power wire brush, hand wire brush, sand paper, disk sander and grinder. But never acetone.  Only problem Ive had is things like Old Harley's have really porous castings and Chevy chain drive transfer cases are pretty poor, However. Ive had a lot of trouble trying to weld anything that has been fixed with JB weld. Mac
Reply:Here is a demo I did on cleaning aluminum a long time ago and the results that you can see for yourself...Study the pics and you tell me what is better..http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ighlight=Clean...zap!Last edited by zapster; 11-22-2011 at 05:29 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by patclemWell, tonight I had my biggest improvement.  I did several things so I'm not sure which it was.  1.  Switched to a Ceriated tungsten from pure tungsten.  (I think I'll try thoriated too, just for kicks.)2.  Doubled the cup size.  Running across flat plate instead of a corner probably makes good sense.  Welding on an inside corner probably will need me to switch back to the smaller cup to get up in there.3.  I played with turning down the argon flow from 20 to 15 because I'm getting more arc wander, maybe because of the Ceriated?  (probably made no difference)4.  I bumped the balance slightly up from 50 to 60. (probably made no difference.)I also tried to keep the filler in the argon, but it's hard to do without melting it early.I didn't spend a lot of time cleaning the aluminum tonight, but I got some nice shiny beads.  That's something new for me and aluminum.  Maybe tomorrow night I'll scrub it good, and hit it with some acetone.  Heck, maybe I'll scrub a piece with the SS brush, cut it in half, use alcohol on one half and acetone on the other.  I'm probably not consistent enough to make it a really good test, but maybe I'll get some interesting results.  It's all pretty clean stock to start with...Thanks again everyone for your comments.
Reply:On oily parts I've used prep-sol (grease and tar remover), which is used to remove oil from a car's surface before paint, which seems to work very well. As for dirty, porous castings, I've been told to soak in soap and water, but I haven't had a chance to try that yet.And I use a ss brush and a ss wire wheel. I know some people frown on the wire wheel, but I just don't get carried away with it and I haven't had a problem yet.IW Local 580 NY, NY
Reply:What most guys don't think of is the filler itself..........If you wipe new filler as it comes out of the container you will see what I mean......I use denatured alcohol unless the material is really dirty  then pretty much **** can it and get cleaner material Last edited by B_C; 11-22-2011 at 10:14 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:When a customer brings me parts that are dripping with oil and covered with crap I give the part back to them and tell them to go clean it.......Not worth the time you will spend cleaning........  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CWhen a customer brings me parts that are dripping with oil and covered with crap I give the part back to them and tell them to go clean it.......Not worth the time you will spend cleaning........
Reply:Hmmmmmmm  is he retired from Siemens, used to welding pristine chemically  cleaned material  and now retired?    Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CWhat most guys don't think of is the filler itself..........If you wipe new filler as it comes out of the container you will see what I mean......I use denatured alcohol unless the material is really dirty  then pretty much **** can it and get cleaner material