Welding leaf springs!

admin

Been a troll for a while and have finally come across something that I am not to familar with. Does anyone know antything about welding a broken leaf spring, it is the main leaf and about an inch from the eye mount. Just curious to see if anyone has done this before!
Reply:Stay Away Far Away, Springs are not meant to be welded, heated or cut, I think it is bad JuJu
Reply:I don't know squat about it, but it doesn't look good.  Here is something I found on it:http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=58979
Reply:Ok, ok, I found something kind of funny, and thought I would share it.  This isn't meant to insult you, but to share something funny with you.  I work in tech support.... so maybe this is just funny to me... but here it goeshttp://tinyurl.com/mlezsmEssentially, you can set one of these up for anybody at lmgtfy.com (Let me google that for you . com)
Reply:I am not sure what size spring you are welding on but, for the price of new springs for trailers and such, it doesn't seem worth the hassle and you might just end up with mild steel when you're done and no "spring" left in the spring. You might want to check this site out.http://www.trailerpart.com/leafsprings.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by corningagmanJust curious to see if anyone has done this before!
Reply:Originally Posted by rode2rouenWelding a broken leaf spring is like dating a 450 lb. fat chick.You might try it, but you sure won't want anybody to find out.Rex
Reply:Originally Posted by jdh239Ok, ok, I found something kind of funny, and thought I would share it.  This isn't meant to insult you, but to share something funny with you.  I work in tech support.... so maybe this is just funny to me... but here it goeshttp://tinyurl.com/mlezsmEssentially, you can set one of these up for anybody at lmgtfy.com (Let me google that for you . com)
Reply:I have joined coil spring sections (auxiliary springs for a trailer) and had them last a very long time. I've used both E8018 and 11018 (or 12018?). I didn't keep records of preheat, etc.Some companies make rod that does a very good job for tasks like this; take a look at MG 600 or MG Super 600 on this site:http://www.messerwelding.com/Keep in mind that the welds may not be as good as the original spring, and liability can be a concern; getting a new spring may be safer and cheaper in the long run, depending on its use. If you choose to use an MG product, its technical advisers can probably give you some useful pointers.
Reply:Lief Springs are heat treated steel. They will weld just fine. The problem is they will no longer be a spring and will break under stress.If you want to see a PERFECT example of what happens to a lief spring do the following experiment.Go find a claw hammer with the straight claws like carpenters use (not the really curved ones like trim carpenters use) and take the claws and chop a 2X4 in half with them. It will take a while but you will get it done.NOW, build a charcoal in the ol' BBQ and throw the hammer head into the fire and wait until the fire goes out. Take the hammer head and put the handle back on and try chopping a 2X4 again. The claws will curl up like your wife's hair when it gets wet.WHY? The leif springs are hardened and them tempered to the desired springiness. If you heat them up by welding and letting them cool you anneal them or remove the hardness, making them soft.Do you want your lief springs soft and not springy?Short cuts are not the answer when it comes to lief springs or anything on a moving down the road vehicle or trailer.Do everyone a favor and buy a new set of springs. They will match side to side in their abilities also.
Reply:buy new  or go to salvage yard faster----quicker ,, in the long run
Reply:thanks for all the input, I plan on getting a new set, I just need to get from the farm back to the shop so that I can work on it  to put new ones on.  the trailer currently has old truck leaf springs which are 37" eye to eye.  when I get the new ones I will have to relocate my shackle mounts to fit standard trailer springs. thanks to all!!!
Reply:I'm a carnival guy, I have seen everything from welding leaf springs to welding axles on tractor trucks. It all is a very very very bad Idea. In any case which I have seen these things happen was just to get the vehicle or trailer off the highway to be worked on. So unless your 200 miles in the middle of bum f#%k egypt. always replace with new or used. Or if the truck is a mud truck then do whatever gets r done.
Reply:Originally Posted by rode2rouenWelding a broken leaf spring is like dating a 450 lb. fat chick.You might try it, but you sure won't want anybody to find out.Rex
Reply:Originally Posted by jdh239Essentially, you can set one of these up for anybody at lmgtfy.com (Let me google that for you . com)
Reply:Originally Posted by fishburn123I'm a carnival guy, I have seen everything from welding leaf springs to welding axles on tractor trucks. It all is a very very very bad Idea. In any case which I have seen these things happen was just to get the vehicle or trailer off the highway to be worked on. So unless your 200 miles in the middle of bum f#%k egypt. always replace with new or used. Or if the truck is a mud truck then do whatever gets r done.
Reply:Originally Posted by jdh239 Essentially, you can set one of these up for anybody at lmgtfy.com (Let me google that for you . com)
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepHere, let me Google that for you:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lmgtfy.com
Reply:late but great.. reply. heres how weld with 6011 both sides. reheat till the haz and weld are a dull red, quench for 5 or so seconds in oil. once cooled down heat in an oven or torch at 400 for 15 to 20 minutes to bring back temper. this procedure has resulted in springs that have lastest for me offroad and on road 20k since last done. this was on the main leaf to.cheers rob
Reply:Originally Posted by robertnzlate but great.. reply. heres how weld with 6011 both sides. reheat till the haz and weld are a dull red, quench for 5 or so seconds in oil. once cooled down heat in an oven or torch at 400 for 15 to 20 minutes to bring back temper. this procedure has resulted in springs that have lastest for me offroad and on road 20k since last done. this was on the main leaf to.cheers rob
Reply:so what! its an interesting question with an answer!
Reply:But an incorrect answer.You must heat the metal to critical temp, not just dull red. Each steel has a different critical temp. Tempering at 400 is good for some things but not all. Do you know the steel the leaf spring is made of? Probably not but most are probably 1095 or 5160 and these two require drastically different heat treating.Since the 6011 is different than the base metal the heat treat would be ineffective at the weld and would result in a break anyway.Heat treating is a very precise practice and your advise could and probably would cause a failure. This worked your way for 20K miles? If so you should run out right now and buy a lottery ticket.
Reply:Replace springs, if it already broke it WILL break again no matter how much bird poop you put on there.I wonder if the OP got the spring fixed after 3 years?
Reply:to each his own if it works thats  the the proof in the pudding
Reply:This one didn't work. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB4EdVql8dE[/ame]So that chain wrapped around the axle of a police car tied to to a tree would work!!  And they busted that on mythbusters...
Reply:We used to get junk trucks and jeeps to rip the piss out in the woods and fields then junk them or sell them, at some point we thought all these leftover leaf springs broken into individual leaves would be great to brace core supports when you take the fenders off a truck or shore up bumpers.  I've never seen one hold were we welded it, they broke and they broke quick, I think if we had annealed the ends it may have worked but in the case of this post it is not a spring anymore then.   If I had to get a trailer in that had a broken spring and couldn't fix it on site I would put wood blocks between the axle and frame and use chains and binders to lock it all down, then a slow ride home.
Reply:.You need quench hardening with oil(get the carbon in) followed then by  tempering at 400 and then slowly lowering  for success. If you use water it becomes way to hard and will become brittle and fail for sure.
Reply:The liability factor on this would scare me.  If it broke on the road and dumped whatever you were carrying or caused your vehicle to hit someone else,  you probably better have a good lawyer, and no conscience.  Jerry
Reply:since my spring are 5160  0.6% carbon  I heat to an austenite  phase at about 1600C  for hardening and then quenched in oil for conversion to martensite and then tempered to 400F for a ferrite/pearilte steel. main leafs helper leafs all can be brought into service . I know a guy who repairs coil springs now thats cool.
Reply:400f results in a Rockwell hardness of  about 60 this is a little high since automotive spring should be around 45 to 50. so  700 t0  800f puts the tempering in the zone.
Reply:If you say so.I would do a little research first because the MANUFACTURER that puts springs on thousands of trucks yearly disagrees with you.Glad you way works for you but I don't want to drive near you.
Reply:Well this is going along quite nicely for a thread from 2009...So lets put all this in proper perspective here.Some claim to have success..Some say how to re-temper it..Some say just do it with so and so..Smart one's that know better say change it.No matter what you read about the subject about WELDING ANY kind of automotive leaf spring just remember this one thing..DO NOT DO IT.You will be IT.And you don't want to be IT.Get IT??...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Whats this IT we are talking about?
Reply:If you are the last one to touch something...YOUR IT....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:IT = Liable.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by cd19We used to get junk trucks and jeeps to rip the piss out in the woods and fields then junk them or sell them, at some point we thought all these leftover leaf springs broken into individual leaves would be great to brace core supports when you take the fenders off a truck or shore up bumpers.  I've never seen one hold were we welded it, they broke and they broke quick, I think if we had annealed the ends it may have worked but in the case of this post it is not a spring anymore then.   If I had to get a trailer in that had a broken spring and couldn't fix it on site I would put wood blocks between the axle and frame and use chains and binders to lock it all down, then a slow ride home.
Reply:Originally Posted by nk14zpAny tips on annealing springs to use as flat bar for braces etc?  Not as use as a spring.
Reply:drill bolt those braces in if you can  they retain their spring should be the best of both worlds!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by robertnzsince my spring are 5160  0.6% carbon  I heat to an austenite  phase at about 1600C  for hardening and then quenched in oil for conversion to martensite and then tempered to 400F for a ferrite/pearilte steel. main leafs helper leafs all can be brought into service . I know a guy who repairs coil springs now thats cool.
Reply:The only thing I would weld leaf springs with is a 312 Stainless like Welco Super Missle Weld , MG 600 or Stoody Versalloy. Used it on my wood hauler and after Cleaning, Welding , Post Heat and wraped in a fire blanket to cool. Hauled many many Ton of Oak. Is this the besat way? NO. Buy new or used if possible.
Reply:Originally Posted by robertnzsince my spring are 5160  0.6% carbon  I heat to an austenite  phase at about 1600C  for hardening and then quenched in oil for conversion to martensite and then tempered to 400F for a ferrite/pearilte steel. main leafs helper leafs all can be brought into service . I know a guy who repairs coil springs now thats cool.
Reply:Originally Posted by burnit2The only thing I would weld leaf springs with is a 312 Stainless like Welco Super Missle Weld , MG 600 or Stoody Versalloy. Used it on my wood hauler and after Cleaning, Welding , Post Heat and wraped in a fire blanket to cool. Hauled many many Ton of Oak. Is this the besat way? NO. Buy new or used if possible.
Reply:There are no leaf springs involved in that video..That's called ladder bars with coil overs..Broken Heim joints will do that....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Do not try this!seriously.. lolSo my YJ broke a main leaf spring and I decided I'd try an ultra-ghetto fix mostly just to see if I could make it work. It's holding up fine after several weeks and doesn't look like it's going to fail any time soon.316L filler and a scrap of 1/8" stainless plate as a stiffener. Vee'd out the crack and did a full penetration weld with a root gap and a copper backing pad.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:My welded Leaf Spring. We were headed from Alaska to Colorado when my buddies leaf spring broke on his 5th wheel trailer broke. I kicked the pieces and heard a little "ting" and thought that would make a good windchime, so I put the pieces to good use. I love the smell of burning metal.
Reply:I have an old friend that made and repaired car leaf springs for at least 50 years of his life.  thats all he did from his apprentice ship till he died a couple years ago. I personally have seen him hammer weld a new eye on a broken spring and re temper it almost exactly like the letter above said. I've taken broken springs to him and he pulled spring stock out of his shelves and curved them and formed an eye on them and re tempered them , so its not rocket science. I've worked with steel since I was young and I have no problems with some simpler heat treats. Like chrome molly 5400.  I have a friend named Tim Wright who is a top knife maker and he sends most of his exotic stuff out to be heat treated, but he can heat treat a lot of his own steel. My next door nieybor is named Jim Corado , He heat treats a lot of his steel. Mac
Reply:I thought most all factory leaf springs were shot peened anymore. The repaired section of a broken spring wouldn't get that beneficial treatment necessarily. Or a leaf spring made from leaf stock even. Not that shot peening is critical, just one of the positive attributes from modern technology and methods is all."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I weld leaf springs all the time. Mind you I have to use a 7018 rod. Other rods will cool to quick and my springs will not hold up to the weights I subject them to. In my opinion this is the only application I would ever use a welded leaf spring.    Art!My welded chair sculpture.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverDo not try this!seriously.. lolSo my YJ broke a main leaf spring and I decided I'd try an ultra-ghetto fix mostly just to see if I could make it work. It's holding up fine after several weeks and doesn't look like it's going to fail any time soon.316L filler and a scrap of 1/8" stainless plate as a stiffener. Vee'd out the crack and did a full penetration weld with a root gap and a copper backing pad.