what is going on with this weld?!?! need help asap.

admin

trying to weld my traction bar brackets onto my rear axle, this is happening.  it will not weld at all, the molten metal just falls off and down on me.  the only sound that i hear is the gas and the occasional pop.  i need to get these done and done right because there will be a lot of weight on them.  how can i get a good weld?!  the welder does just fine on 1/8" steel, go to this and it just wont work for me.  [IMG][/IMG]
Reply:and the surfaces were ground clean before i welded.
Reply:If this is going on a leaf spring diesel truck, they are going to break no matter what you do. As your leaf spring squats the rear end moves back in the vehicle and the traction bar does not give
Reply:gone through all that, got bushings up front and the rear of the leaf has a pivot point.  this same set up has been done numerous times and is successful.  my issue is the brackets are not welding to the axle tubes.
Reply:First you need to clean the weld white metal. You can not boil the mud to get a good result.Do good and throw it into the water.  my equipment: Esab AristoMig500 U82Plus Dual feed, Esab CaddyTig2200IAC\DC, Esab CaddyMig200I, Esab AristoMIG400T, Miller Dynasty, Linkoln V350, Castoli Eutaloy, Castolin SuperJet, and more other.
Reply:It would help to know all the info. What machine do you have and what settings and wire size are you running? Just because a machine welds fine on 1/8" doesn't mean it will do good welds anytime there is 1/8" material in the equation. If the other piece is heavier it will suck out a bunch of heat and you'll still end up with a cold weld. I doubt that's you main issue however.Looks to me like you can't weld vertical. Just because you can do welds on the bench doesn't automatically mean you can do them stuffed under the vehicle either. The big globs in the middle and poor tie ins at the toes look like you are trying to do timing patterns vs reading the puddle and reacting to it. Couple this with a machine that is borderline on power, welding on thicker material making cold welds, and this is about what I'd expect to see..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Is the gas on? One time I was working on a sculpture and all the welds were coming out pretty much like that. Some worse. After racking my brain, saying lots of cuss words and throwing a few tools I noticed that the gas wasn't on.  Yes, I really am that stupid.-ben
Reply:are they the same metals?
Reply:Millermatic 211 75/25 .30. Gas is on, I have welded just fine under vehicles before. Metal was clean up to a inch away from where in was welding. If it were an issue of controlling the puddle, I wouldn't have a problem. The puddle dosent start...the wire basically melts and drops.
Reply:What are you grounding to? Is it clean?NickESAB CaddyTig 2200iPowermax 45MM140 (Sold)
Reply:Connections polarity right?Do good and throw it into the water.  my equipment: Esab AristoMig500 U82Plus Dual feed, Esab CaddyTig2200IAC\DC, Esab CaddyMig200I, Esab AristoMIG400T, Miller Dynasty, Linkoln V350, Castoli Eutaloy, Castolin SuperJet, and more other.
Reply:First thing first. Crawl out from under the car and run a few beads on some steel. Works ok ?Take a bracket and run a one inch bead on it, on the bench. OK ? Crawl under the car and run a short bead on the axle tube. If that's OK. Call a welder.Not being facetious but if you never had the problem before and it will weld on the bench you have a steel mismatch-contaminate issue.It's even remotely possible(and highly unlikely) that the C25 is reacting with some gasses-fumes coming from under the car.Things like differential grease put off some funky odor that I have no idea what the "gas" is that causes the stench.If it is a steel mismatch a stick og 309 should fix that up.....maybe.Last edited by Burpee; 01-31-2014 at 05:07 PM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:im grounding right to the bracket in the picture and its clean.  it wont run a bead on the axle tube.  im gunna get it on a hoist tomorrow so i at least have room for my head at can get it all clean.
Reply:The steel is too cold, I can tell by the snow stuck to the frame in the background, heat it up till water pours out of it and dries it all up. You might need to go up in size in wire, It helps with welding thicker materials. Your liner could have been kinked or too many bends, or twisted up too much.at the time you probably didn't notice. Pull the wire out and blow out your liner, and change the contact tip. Maybe you need to turn up the wire speed or turn the volts down, what are your settings any way? Only clap your ground to clean shiny metal. Lets see some pics of your regular welds.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247The steel is too cold, I can tell by the snow stuck to the frame in the background, heat it up till water pours out of it and dries it all up. You might need to go up in size in wire, It helps with welding thicker materials. Your liner could have been kinked or too many bends, or twisted up too much.at the time you probably didn't notice. Pull the wire out and blow out your liner, and change the contact tip. Maybe you need to turn up the wire speed or turn the volts down, what are your settings any way? Only clap your ground to clean shiny metal. Lets see some pics of your regular welds.
Reply:Just kidding Dooooooooglasz. You have a good eye and a VERY good point.I didn't catch it beacause the only white deposits around here are either close to an ocean or..............a plate of glass.Last edited by Burpee; 01-31-2014 at 05:53 PM.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247The steel is too cold, I can tell by the snow stuck to the frame in the background, heat it up till water pours out of it and dries it all up. You might need to go up in size in wire, It helps with welding thicker materials. Your liner could have been kinked or too many bends, or twisted up too much.at the time you probably didn't notice. Pull the wire out and blow out your liner, and change the contact tip. Maybe you need to turn up the wire speed or turn the volts down, what are your settings any way? Only clap your ground to clean shiny metal. Lets see some pics of your regular welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247The steel is too cold, I can tell by the snow stuck to the frame in the background, heat it up till water pours out of it and dries it all up. You might need to go up in size in wire, It helps with welding thicker materials. Your liner could have been kinked or too many bends, or twisted up too much.at the time you probably didn't notice. Pull the wire out and blow out your liner, and change the contact tip. Maybe you need to turn up the wire speed or turn the volts down, what are your settings any way? Only clap your ground to clean shiny metal. Lets see some pics of your regular welds.
Reply:Left hand rosebud/right hand/MIG pistol. GidRdun !Gotta love this 'hood.BRAVO.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:BTW 62. You cut a nice line with that gun.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by BurpeeLeft hand rosebud/right hand/MIG pistol. GidRdun !Gotta love this 'hood.BRAVO.
Reply:ok, idea.  so it was a little under 0 degrees air temp when i was welding.  would the metal sweat when it gets heated?  or sweat enough for the weld to not stick?
Reply:I did some work welding on heavy plate steel, It was 3 inches thick! When I preheated that steel the water poured out of it, I mean it really dripped off it. It wont happen like that for you lol. It will sweat out, and you will get two main benefits. For one taking the moisture out takes the hydrogen out of it. And another, it will make it easier to reach the amount of heat input needed to make the weld. With wire it seems as if you always got to keep moving, sit in one place and its going to build up and throw spatter or build up the center of the weld too much etc. etc. Wire welding is trying to find the right balance. IMHONothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247I did some work welding on heavy plate steel, It was 3 inches thick! When I preheated that steel the water poured out of it, I mean it really dripped off it. It wont happen like that for you lol. It will sweat out, and you will get two main benefits. For one taking the moisture out takes the hydrogen out of it. And another, it will make it easier to reach the amount of heat input needed to make the weld. With wire it seems as if you always got to keep moving, sit in one place and its going to build up and throw spatter or build up the center of the weld too much etc. etc. Wire welding is trying to find the right balance. IMHO
Reply:Don't you think if that much moisture came from the inside of that steel, it would rust from the inside out?Forgive me if you guys are joking, but I hope you don't think that the water is coming out of the steel!...
Reply:It is actually water coming from the combustion process and the air  then condensing on the steel. There may be some moisture in the porous layer of rust on the surface.
Reply:Originally Posted by AdvanForgive me if you guys are joking, but I hope you don't think that the water is coming out of the steel!...
Reply:Ok, that is what is really happening? It was explained to me differently when I did that welding job on the thick metal and I never second guessed who was misleading me at the time. I apologize if what I said was wrong but my advice is still to preheat the steel till al the condensate goes away. It will lower the amount of hydrogen entrapment and bring it to welding temperatures.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:I ended up heating up my axle and bracket and it welded just fine. Happy with how they are working too.
Reply:Originally Posted by Superlate62I ended up heating up my axle and bracket and it welded just fine. Happy with how they are working too.
Reply:Think "Dewpoint"... Water condenses on the steel from the surrounding air as the temp of the metal changes.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller 252 Miller 250xMiller Syncrowave 250Miller AEAD200 LegendMiller 375 Xtreme plasmaLincoln WeldPak 100Victor O/A