Millermatic 211 Welding Issues

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Well ever since I bought this millermatic 211 machine at the beginning of the, I've been having a bit of weld result issues. I can just never lay down consistent beads with it! Now I did buy it for the ease of its setup and for more things 1/8" and under it works great ... anything over that is where the real issues that I've been having with it. I usually have .030 - 70S wire in there and I currently run a tri mix gas (90/7.5/2.5). I should mention that this is my first bottle of that stuff too and never played too much around with it, but to me it seems to spatter a bit more than normal? Shielding gas is probably set around 15-18 CFM. Now I've never tried cutting a weld apart since I got it, but maybe I will do so sometime in the near future. But there was certainly a few welds that I would question and I would end up taking the tig welder out to make sure its in there ... I know its not a good thing to do, but I'd rather be sure than sorry. You may call me crazy, but I find TIG welding easier than MIG welding almost all the time. I love the heat control of TIG welding and the accuracy and strength that it always produces. But as we all know time is money and a MIG will always be quicker than a TIG. Let me know your thoughts and advice.
Reply:Originally Posted by dj55bLet me know your thoughts and advice.
Reply:Actually I was able to take a couple of pictures of a couple parts I had laying around here ... and of course camera batteries die after that.Anyway's here's what I was able to retrieve:A couple things that I know, is the starts don't get hot enough. I even tried once using say the 1/4" setting vs the 3/16" setting and it still starts about the same thing with me waiting at the start for about a second or so before moving the gun. Another thing that isn't as easy to see is that sometimes on the lower part of the weld (when in flat position), the bottom of the weld looks like it has a hairline gap in between the weld and the material despite the overall weld looking like a decent shape. Lastly, all three welds are on the same piece show here, but the third picture, that is a piece of 1/8" ontop of a 3/16" piece and I never get that hairline on that weld towards the bottom just both sides of that part where the welds are 3/16" to 3/16" material. Attached Images
Reply:Ok, I doubt it's your technique thats the issue now that I can see some picts. That's not what I was thinking you were talking about when you said "inconsistent beads". I've never used trimix on plain steel, only on stainless on a few occasions, so I can't comment on if these issues have to deal with your gas or not.You are running that machine on 230v rather than 110v right?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:"Ok why are you using trimix for plain steel? Why not 75/25 or 80/20 like most use? Are you doing a lot of stainless and were just didn't want to change gasses to do steel?"He very likely is using argon/CO2/O2 tri mix.The advantage is the oxygen is supposed to help wet out.The welds look pretty nice to me.....am I missing something?
Reply:Yes the machine is being run on 220V and not 110V. Also yes again for the tri mix being Argon/CO2/O2. I was told with that tri mix I should be able to achieve better penetrating welds as well as a better looking one. Sorry for the confusing in the "inconsistent" part. I know you were probably expecting a weld that varied in size and shape throughout the same weld. The inconsistency that I was referring to is from one weld to another. Its not a very big difference, but I can be pretty picky  It just seems like it doesn't have enough amperage to penetrate the steel properly. I also thought maybe a ground issue, but putting the ground on the table or on the piece itself makes no difference as such neither.Now I have taken a 2Lb  sledge hammer to them in the past to see if they will separate, and they don't. So they do have some sort of penetration and strength to them so I just wonder sometimes if its not just the way the gas as mentioned "washes" out the welds and makes it appear that the edges only appear that way.Last edited by dj55b; 10-09-2011 at 09:25 PM.
Reply:Definite lack of fusion at the starts. The hair like gap indicates cold lapping or a lack of fusion along the toe of the weld. To cold of machine setting or having the wire speed set to high for the voltage can cause this issue. The fact that you are using a shielding gas with a high percentage of argon that that is better suited for spray transfer then short circuit transfer could be part of your issue. Are you trying to run the unit with Millers supplied machine setting for C25?Are you using a back and forth whipping motion? If so, try switching to a side to side wiggle. Pulling the puddle can lead to lack of fusion issues along the toes of the weld much easier then pushing the puddle. I'd also definitely try running much hot machines. I'd also set the unit up with C25 or use your current Tri-mix on a more powerful unit that is capable of producing spray transfer with it.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DanDefinite lack of fusion at the starts. The hair like gap indicates cold lapping or a lack of fusion along the toe of the weld. To cold of machine setting or having the wire speed set to high for the voltage can cause this issue. The fact that you are using a shielding gas with a high percentage of argon that that is better suited for spray transfer then short circuit transfer could be part of your issue. Are you trying to run the unit with Millers supplied machine setting for C25?Are you using a back and forth whipping motion? If so, try switching to a side to side wiggle. Pulling the puddle can lead to lack of fusion issues along the toes of the weld much easier then pushing the puddle. I'd also definitely try running much hot machines. I'd also set the unit up with C25 or use your current Tri-mix on a more powerful unit that is capable of producing spray transfer with it.
Reply:By wiggle I  mean a very tight side to side motion as you travel along the weld joint. On 1/8" or 3/16" if you have to pause at all with your side to side motion you aren't running hot enough machine settings.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by DanBy wiggle I  mean a very tight side to side motion as you travel along the weld joint. On 1/8" or 3/16" if you have to pause at all with your side to side motion you aren't running hot enough machine settings.
Reply:Originally Posted by dj55bSo looks like the automatic setting won't be used any more one that machine for anything thicker than 1/8". Is the tri mix not suppose to make the weld area hotter though than conventional gas? Or was I mistold about that?
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1The AS is calibrated for C25 not a Tri Mix- doesn't matter the material thickness.Buy a jug of C25 and be happy- if you need a "hotter weld area" you bought the wrong machineIt is like putting premium gas in a car built for regular gas- it can't utilize the performance properties of the premium.
Reply:Everyone has some good points here... but something simple also I dont see no joint prep or removed mill scale..Owner G&S Mobile Welding & Millwright Services, LLCSpencerville, Ohio Adult Ed. Instructor at Apollo Career Center Lima, Ohio
Reply:Originally Posted by HondarussEveryone has some good points here... but something simple also I dont see no joint prep or removed mill scale..
Reply:Just an update to this, the other bottle finally went empty and have started using 80/20 gas as oppose to the tri mix that I had and I'm back to being a good welder that gets lots of penetration! Well I guess that makes me a bad welder now doesn't it
Reply:Originally Posted by dj55bI am aware of that, and I'm also aware of how little effect that has for a weld such as this. I have tested weld strength with and without scale removed on 1/4" plate and the results are "almost" negligible. There is certainly a greater effect on parts that have a thicker and coarser layer of mill scale (ie support beams, angle iron, c-hannels ...)
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmBoth the starts and the toes will wet out better with the mill scale removed.  Your starts would burn in better if you started at the edge of the plate and ended in the center too.
Reply:In addition to prepping the joint better (mill scale) I would have started my welds at the edge and worked to the center. It helps with the cold start of mig. You started in the center and worked to the edge were the heat has nowhere to go. This makes the welds start cold and end hot.Edit: I see that this was already mentioned.Last edited by KGIOR; 12-13-2011 at 03:02 PM.
Reply:You may also be pushing the .030 a bit. On 1/4" material I would use .035, I know other people use .030 for that but I don't feel it digs enough for me at that point.
Reply:I have used 035 in the past, but gets alot more splatter with that, and since these parts need to be powder coated afterwards, it make its alot easier to clean up. Besides the parts are built with quite a bit of over kill
Reply:You've gotten the advice you need here.  In addition to the C25, I would consider Miller's autoset useful only for quick and dirty work.  If you're at all particular, then you might do well to adjust the settings the old fashioned way. I would also slow your gas down to closer to 12cfm if you're in a room that isn't drafty.  It might not be affecting your weld, but why waste the stuff?Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:You've gone from a tri-mix to a spray arc gas. Why don't you just get the gas the machine was designed to use? Auot-set is calibrated to use 75/25 only. If you are going to use that function then you need the right gas. If you are going to ignore everybody's advise, then take it out of auto set and set the dials to the right voltage and wire speed for your application.
Reply:I wouldn't call 80/20 a spray-arc gas. The rule of thumb for spray is less than 18% CO2 with 5 - 10% being ideal.The difference in voltage settings between 80/20 and 75/25 is trivial but, as Jack Olsen said, Auto-set is just a starting point. I don't have a 211, but many here say that .030 is the optimal size for that machine. If it works better for you, then no worries.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:your material is heating up as you weld. thats why the starts are cold and the tail in has a lower profile IMO. Set the welder manually and set it hot. You consistency seems pretty good.
Reply:No, you're right Silicon, I thought I remembered 90/10, my point was still valid though, if you are going to use Auto Set, then use the gas it is calibrated for, otherwise learn to set the dials on the machine, or don't complain.I'm not really complaining, just understanding things better that all. I'm very well capable of setting it up manually and easily over come those issues. Its just that I don't do much MIG welding, I TIG 90% of the time and its just nice to quickly set up and run the machine with the autoset setup.
Reply:I set my MM211 manually and set it to run hot and just a little less wire speed, with 75/25 at 10 cfm. The As on this unit seems to to be a little off now if I use As on 110 and thin steel it works fine. I have used to wire mang.I have used Air South wire and Hobart wire, at times the wire from Air South made a better looking weld. I think that the MM211 takes some time to get good results. it is a $1000.00 Auto Set welder not a $400.000.00 Auto Set.
Reply:Originally Posted by dj55bI'm not really complaining, just understanding things better that all. I'm very well capable of setting it up manually and easily over come those issues. Its just that I don't do much MIG welding, I TIG 90% of the time and its just nice to quickly set up and run the machine with the autoset setup.