Stick welder recommendation - hobby shop

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Hi all... it's been a while, but I'm back to the site and reading/catching up. I've moved to a new home since last here (which explains my lack of posts and projects) and am in the process of wiring up the final bits in my shop. I'm looking for a stick welder to add to my collection - thinking a used Lincoln AC/DC 225, an Idealarc 250 if I can find it. There's a few posts that recommend the Miller and some other brands, then there's posts that discuss Aluminum welding options and, and, and...  good grief! So many options! Before I set out on Kijiji or CL, I came to the Sale thread here, but again was overwhelmed by all the different machines. Can someone point me to a good, reliable, inexpensive machine (or several to watch for) that will allow me to learn as many things possible? So that when the time come to upgrade, I'll really know what I need? I work mostly on cars and motorcycles. I'd like to build a small utility trailer one day. No bigger plans yet. So far, the Idealarc 250 seems to be the most recommended.
Reply:either the lincoln or miller 250 ac/dc used will last you a lifetime and can be something you can expand on, or you can pick up a lincoln or miller 225/230 class ac/dc new for about the same money.  If it were me I would go with the larger used unit.  In my garage, I have a little lincoln ac/dc and it has serve me well for 8 years.  I would much rather the larger unit so I could gouge, but I have that ability with other machines.
Reply:An Idealarc 250 or a Miller Dialarc 250 is great if you have a big enough breaker to feed it."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:If you cannot accomodate one of the heavier industrial grade machines like the Idealarc or Dialarc, or cannot find one in decent shape for a reasonable amount of money, then I can highly recommend the Hobart Stickmate 235 AC/DC welder (aka Miller Thunderbolt, the machines are the same just the paint is different) if you buy new. The Lincoln AC/DC tombstone is also a good choice, too. I've used both and own the Hobart myself. You will need a 50 amp 240v breaker to feed the little beast to its full potential so make sure you've got provisions for this circuit. If, and thats a big if, you can get a 100 amp circuit in there then you'll be able to get a bigger machine now and/or have excellent options for larger/better machines in the future.
Reply:Ideal Arc, Dialarc etc.  all good choices.  I agree with the sentiment that you hit Craigslist and go for an older industrial machine - assuming you can run a sold 50 Amp 230V circuit to the machine.   The price/performance/DURABILITY of these machines are hard to beat.However,You mention that the intended use is for motorcycles.   In my head I'm envisioning things like thin wall tubing, exhaust pipes, custom tanks (made from thin sheet metal).   I'm pretty sure my first choice would not be a stick welder (or at least not a pure stick welder).  I'd be leaning toward more of a TIG welder or maybe a MIG welder.Dialarc HFs add the TIG capability - again Craigslist and some patience.Stick welding on thin sheetmetal is possible, I just can't do it.  I either stick or burn through and I cannot read the puddle fast enough nor react fast enough to make it work.If you've never welded before, consider taking a class at local community college ro vo-tech school.  The ones I've seen pretty much start you with stick welding (or even gas welding).  Try your hand at it first, then decide for yourself what machine to get).On the high dollar side of things.  There are multiprocess welders. They are a bit rarer on Ebay/CL, you might want to save up and buy new.  Keep in mind that the prices will vary depending on what accessories you get with it.  Some require external spool guns/wire feeders for MIG.One last thing to keep in mind.  Quality welders can be sold if you change your mind.  Brand name and condition dictate price.  Buy a used Miller, Lincoln, Hobart and keep it in good shape and you can probably re-sell it for the same price.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Most AC/DC transformers will fit the description of what you want.  You mention you'll want to upgrade in the future.The old tranny's are inherently reliable, so if you plug it in and it works, you'll be good for long time. You may want to consider an off brand, like a Craftsman, Linde or Mongomery Ward off CL.   They sell by me for much cheaper than a Blue or Red equivalent.  I've seen ACDC units as low as $50 and they will do what you ask.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:The Idealarc and Dialarc 250 machines are excellent stick welders and very good scratch start dc tig welders.  The only thing they won't weld is aluminum.
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9Ideal Arc, Dialarc etc.  all good choices.  I agree with the sentiment that you hit Craigslist and go for an older industrial machine - assuming you can run a sold 50 Amp 230V circuit to the machine.   The price/performance/DURABILITY of these machines are hard to beat.However,You mention that the intended use is for motorcycles.   In my head I'm envisioning things like thin wall tubing, exhaust pipes, custom tanks (made from thin sheet metal).   I'm pretty sure my first choice would not be a stick welder (or at least not a pure stick welder).  I'd be leaning toward more of a TIG welder or maybe a MIG welder.Dialarc HFs add the TIG capability - again Craigslist and some patience.
Reply:Thanks all!Con_fuse9, that was super useful info! I might not have been clear, but I do have a Licoln MIG sp 135+ with tank. I also took the college community course that while good, left me with as many questions as answers... but I feel safer with the OA set up now I'd really like to weld aluminum at some point and if the new welder could do that, I'd be in great shape. So the search is on. I'll check through the classified here again and if anybody comes across something interesting, feel free to PM me. BTW, I wired 50 amps to the outlet. The panel is currently rated for 70, and it wouldn't be impossible or extremely difficult to upgrade to 100 amp in the future. Last thing: I'm going to check for How To threads on the site, but if you have any favourites? Thanks so much again!
Reply:A bit of overkill - a Syncrowave 300 w/pulser for $600.http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/drh/tls/3979055348.html"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:love it, but I don't think my 50 amp circuit would agree...  I think the dialarc or idealarc 250 is going to be the right one....
Reply:That 300 Sync is a good machine in both stick and tig modes. I have used one. The price is nice too. Like you say however, you will need 100+ amps minimun of 230v to run that sucker near full output. You will also need some floor space, it is a big brute.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I looked at the Sync longingly... but my power and space limitations won't allow my that unit. Plus, I don't know that I'd ever use that much machine? I think smaller, simpler to start with the option to move up later is best. My budget also reminds me that I'm getting used equipment, so I may get what I need... not want.  I put a call into my local welding supply contractor. He does house calls and got my OA set up in perfect order, set up my little MIG and gave me some good advice. I'm hoping he'll know of a good used package that will suit me. I'm still watching Kijiji and CL though!
Reply:Just a note, there are plenty of us that ran old transformer machines on less than the recommended 100+ Amp breakers.  The key is watching your output settings.I ran a Dialarc HF off 30 Amp breaker - it did trip the breaker often on power up (in-rush).  When I finally ponied up for a real 50 Amp plug, never had an issue.  I was told that if I tried to stick weld AC with a high amps setting, I would have thrown the breaker when I tried to 'break' the arc.  Never an issue for me.  If you buy your electrodes at Home Depot, they don't have anything that will approach what a 50 Amp circuit can put out.I installed two 50 Amp circuits and run my air compressor off one.  Now my wife can run the dryer while I weld    (At least around here, electric dryers typically run off a 30 Amp circuit).Bottom line, if you can move those big machines around (Think 500lbs), you could make use of it.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:For a hobby shop I wouldn't look for an industrial machine like a dialarc or idealarc.Unless I found one for 500 or less in good used condition, I'd just get a new hobart stickmate.It will do just about anything you need, an industrial unit just has better  output and duty cycle. If you wanna weld aluminum get a sycrowave 200 from eBay
Reply:For a Hobby Shop a 50 amp breaker is plenty, I run my Dialarc pretty hard (Duty Cycle) and rarely trip the breaker.Yes, I agree that an AC/DC Lincoln or Thunderbolt is plenty all you'll ever need.I got my Dialarc for $350 and sold my Thunderbolt for $135 plus sold a nice vintage Lincoln 180AC for $100.So in my case it was a wash to buy the bigger machine.Sounds like in your case the Thunderbolt would be enough as you can scratch TIG with it when you decide to play around trying that.
Reply:Our old Dialarc 250 (1974 model) was $300."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumOur old Dialarc 250 (1974 model) was $300.
Reply:I run the Idealarc 250 with a 60 amp breaker. I've never tripped it. But when it was still on a 30 amp breaker, it would occasionally trip on start up if it had been off for awhile and the caps had bled off their charge.As was mentioned, you can buy a 300 amp machine and run it off a smaller breaker, you just won't get to use it at full output. But if your needs are less than full output, you'll find that it will give you what you need with a higher duty cycle.Another advantage of the larger machines is that they have higher OCV which helps a lot with certain rods like 6010.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Would anybody recommend the v160 inverter Lincoln?  Would parts and accessories be too expensive? Will it weld aluminum?
Reply:No it's a DC tig so Alum is out. Looks like it's a decent DC stick tig that will take a remote. My guess is that on 110v power you will most likely be limited to roughly 100-110 amps output if it's similar to the Maxstar 150. On 230v power you'd have full output..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks...  sorry to ask the question. I did look for references on the site and did find the info after posting. I really like the size of the unit and with my 220v input, the duty cycle would be excellent for my plans. But the machine does limit me in other things and frankly the lack and/or cost of parts/accessories for it make it a bad choice. But the size!!!  Oh well.. will keep looking. Dialarc/Idealarc still seems to be the way to go. It will be OK on my 50amp breaker, right?
Reply:Found an AC/DC Lincoln 'tombstone'?    Brand new! with rods and cables. Yes? No?btw, did try to search it and wow that came up with a lot of hits....Edit: not a 'tombstone'. It's a tombstone with square corners. Also found an Idealarc 250 with a square top. Arghhh, this is all so confusing.Last edited by xrdad; 09-12-2013 at 11:12 AM.
Reply:And to add insult to injury, I did some reading about my little 135+ mig... seems like it's not all that well liked?  I've only used it to weld casters to a cabinet, and I need some serious practice before I try to weld anything good. I found that it would useless to try and build a trailer with, and that giving my lack of experience, building a trailer is a bad idea... although the guy on youtube said it was easy ;-)
Reply:Buy the AC/DC tombstone with the extra's.You won't regret it!Miller, Airco, sureweld, 330 ABP.  All the power you will ever need (up to 460 amps). Full aluminum TIG capabilities, can be had super cheap, almost indestructible.  Amazing weld quality.  All copper transformer.    Will run on 50 amp single phase breaker at medium setting. More power efficient than a dial arc. If u want to see how they weld, just look at zapster's work.  All done on a 330ABP.   The other brands just put a different faceplate on the 330 and give it a funky model number.   Just took mine to auction cuz it's too big to move it several states away.. 850lbsSent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2Last edited by soutthpaw; 09-12-2013 at 12:05 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdadFound an AC/DC Lincoln 'tombstone'?    Brand new! with rods and cables. Yes? No?btw, did try to search it and wow that came up with a lot of hits....Edit: not a 'tombstone'. It's a tombstone with square corners. Also found an Idealarc 250 with a square top. Arghhh, this is all so confusing.
Reply:Lincoln had the old round-top Lincwelder 180 and 250 AC units and the round-top Idealarc 250s.  The AC225 in the states had the beveled corners at the top.  The Canadian versions of same had a flat top from what I've seen.  Later Idealarcs had a flat top. Post a pic of what you find and folks here can help you identify it."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:this one
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdadthis one
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdadHi all... it's been a while, but I'm back to the site and reading/catching up. I've moved to a new home since last here (which explains my lack of posts and projects) and am in the process of wiring up the final bits in my shop. I'm looking for a stick welder to add to my collection - thinking a used Lincoln AC/DC 225, an Idealarc 250 if I can find it. There's a few posts that recommend the Miller and some other brands, then there's posts that discuss Aluminum welding options and, and, and...  good grief! So many options! Before I set out on Kijiji or CL, I came to the Sale thread here, but again was overwhelmed by all the different machines. Can someone point me to a good, reliable, inexpensive machine (or several to watch for) that will allow me to learn as many things possible? So that when the time come to upgrade, I'll really know what I need? I work mostly on cars and motorcycles. I'd like to build a small utility trailer one day. No bigger plans yet. So far, the Idealarc 250 seems to be the most recommended.
Reply:Well from a nube myself- I feel your pain. I went through this exercise this past spring. I wanted the most versatility I could get for the money and it had to be tuff. I wanted to be able to weld 1/4 plate steel and tig aluminum. That meant I needed a machine that would do AC and DC SMAW (stick) and also have AC hi frequency for the aluminum tig. I was limited by the power I could bring to the shed by cost. A 70 amp breaker was my max because of the distance I had to go. I almost ended up with a Lincoln 225 but ran across an add for a Miller Syncrowave 250 circa 2000. It didn't take long to realize the Miller was the machine for me. It came out of a school and was in great shape! $1500.- and I picked it up. Now I haven't tried the tig yet but I hear its a great machine for it. I've been welding 1/4" steel with 1/8" rods for hours at a time and haven't had a single problem. I've been able to tailor the arc for stick using the "Dig" control to great effect. I'm still a nube but this machine has mad it possible for me to become a better welder.That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Gizzmo
Reply:Much appreciated all. I will continue looking for an Ideal/Dialarc or for one of the units suggested above. Just out of curiosity, is this unit also a 'buzzbox'?
Reply:Buzz box is usually a generic term for the smaller transformer based stick machines because of the buzzing sound they usually make. Like many generic terms it's not always applied equally or correctly. I could see that term being applied to any transformer stick machine irregardless of size..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:So would the pictured IdealArc 250 be a good machine that could - TIG or weld aluminum? Maybe I'm asking too much... Idealarc has so many versions, not easy to know what to look for. Few come with the torch, even fewer with a description. And searching each model as described in this thread is exhausting... I've found several dialarc and a few thunderbolt, and lots and lots of idealarc... but which one is right? I'd hate to miss the right machine, because the cables/torch weren't included but are available elsewhere. Thanks again all for your patience and kind advice.
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdad...  Just out of curiosity, is this unit also a 'buzzbox'?
Reply:Thanks all for the advice. I did make a decision and have put a small deposit on a machine. Hoping I made the right call? After looking at the recommended units and my limitations, hopes and goals, I picked a Lincoln Invertec 250S. The output/input power, the size, plus what the seller added (with arc whip, tig whip, ground clamp, tons of spares for the tig including nozzles, tungsten electrodes tail pieces etc) are what sold me. I know I want to learn TIG. I know I need an ARC welder. And my 2 car shop is already as a good friend put it "trying to put 10lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag". I already have my 110v SP135 plus Lincoln MIG with a bottle. Now I can switch the bottle to TIG as well. I'll have all the power I need to build a trailer in the future and I lost almost no space. I have portability and option to run off a generator (although that's not a criteria right now). My SP135 has the option to run aluminum with a gun, so for the 'hobby' or learning, that's where I'll go with it. My concerns: that the Invertec will fail and the $$ will be stupid. The seller is a millwright, has built cars and some pretty significant projects, and has moved to a Hobart 220v MIG. He has access to some big equipment and the Invertec wasn't being used anymore. He gave me honest and upfront info, will bring a tank home next week and show me the machine works before I make the full payment. I got the set up for $650. The machine is clean, no dents and does not look abused. I has been used though, so it obviously works. I'm looking for advice and opinions before I made the final payment. I can afford to lose the downpayment if you all feel this is a mistake. I appreciate the recommendations made to date and my search really was around the Idealarc, but the size and model confusion, the cost and the 'unknown' just are too much for me. The Invertec was 10 minutes from home and the guy seems super nice. He agreed that this site was a great resource that would help me move forward. In the end, if the Invertec doesn't work out, I'm sure I can sell it for what I paid. Thanks again all
Reply:No advice? Please!!!  I'm paying for the unit today...
Reply:I'm not all that familiar with Lincoln's tig units. From what I can tell from looking at the manual it's a DC only 250 amp capable tig/stick machine. That rules out AC tig for alum if that matters to you. Looks like you'll want at least a 50 amp 230v circuit to run it. ( specs call for an 80 amp breaker)This should be the manual for that machine.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/im490.pdfPrice wise $650 for a working 250 amp DC tig with all the accessories ( pedal, tig torch, stick leads etc.) looks like a good deal. If you have to add the torch, pedal and so on, the deal might not be so good depending on what you need to add and what the cost will be. I can't speak towards any issues that model unit might have, so I'll leave that for those more familiar with Lincoln tigs..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdadNo advice? Please!!!  I'm paying for the unit today...
Reply:Thanks guys. I was able to hold off the purchase another day. a) it has all kinds of Tungsten rods, nozzles, parts for the TIG. I has the hand adjustable version - I think he said weldcraft? Said it was a better unit than most and claims the box of parts are worth $300 retail. The machines cables are in excellent condition and like JD955SC says, it's clean compared to the junk available. Lots of the stuff I'm seeing here is rusted? Why is that? b) after looking at the recommended machines, I decided that the space they needed didn't fit in my plans. I also looked an my goals, and it's to practice and learn welding. I don't have 'anything' I have to build? So getting to try everything was more important. IF I find myself needing more, I wanted a unit I could sell... Hence a red or blue box I researched my Lincoln SP135 plus and it will (cough cough) weld aluminum with the addition of a new cable and roller (pretty cheap). The Invertec seems like a good machine for just about everything else. They're both small, I don't make a living (hell, they cost me money to use) with them and they're both NOT power hogs. And, they're portable should that ever become important. The price was at the top of my budget and frankly, I didn't find any of the recommended machines that would have been any cheaper after having to purchase the torch equipment to go with them. Last thing I'm working on, anticipating the arrival of my Invertec is the power supply. My electrician will kill me! I had just got the 50amp set up, when I put the deposit on the Invertec. (follow me here, another question coming)The seller says the plug on the machine is a 30 amp twist lock? The electrician is waiting on me to tell him what size we're going with. By the manual, the machine may or may not have had the cord from the factory. By the manual, I'm supposed to run off an 80amp breaker!??? I don't have that option. My main box has a 60 amp breaker feeding the 70 amp spec pony panel in the garage. Not sure if I can run a 60amp breaker in the pony panel for the welder? I think it's supposed to be smaller than the main box breaker, taking me down to 50. But if 50 is right, I'll need to replace the cord on the unit. Q - if the machine has been run on a 30amp breaker all it's life (and it seems to have worked very well), should I stay at 30 or go to 50? Will the electrician dictate what I should use?Finally, IF I had to, the main panel is only 6' away from the outlet, on the opposite side of the wall. I 'could' run an 80amp breaker...So, ending the confusion on the machine, I've now created confusion in the install. Just another day here in Keswick! Thanks all for the wise and kind advice so far. Will be sparking soon!
Reply:You can run the machine on smaller breakers. The only question would be how much power you pull before the breaker trips.  I ran my old Craftsman AC/DC unit on a 30 amp dryer outlet when I lived in an apartment. The only problem was that I'd trip the breaker if I tried to weld at over roughly 100 amps.Same applies with the plug. The issue would come if you tried to use a small plug or lighter gauge wire with a big breaker. The breaker is there to protect the wiring ( or plug) from over heating. If you want to use a 50 amp plug, your electrician would need to check what size wire runs from the machine to see if it's large enough for the breaker to be used. Not knowing the wire size, I couldn't even guess. I doubt you would have any issues on a 50 amp line, and I really doubt you will have a need to draw the full 250 amps regularly. Most stuff can be stick welded at 165 amps or less and most tig stuff can be done at probably 150 amps or less since you won't be doing alum. As far as what the max size breaker your sub panel will take, that's a question for your electrician. I'd have him go as big as you can afford to feed the panel however. That way you can always go up if need be.As far as why you often see rusty stuff, it's because it's often stored in basements and garages on the floor where they might get damp occasionally..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:OK..  Well, I've already committed to running 6 gauge in the conduit, and that covers me up to 50amps at least. So I won't melt anything in there. For the electrician, he has to match the breaker to the plug. If I put a 30amp plug on the machine, that dictates the outlet type, which dictates the breaker. But is 30amp sufficient? I'm thinking if the machine works better with more power, now is the time. But then I have to update the cord on the unit. What a PIA! And I'm back to the original worry that the machine has always run on a 30amp cord. Will it get upset if I wire it the way it should have been the whole time? And why the heck is Lincoln suggesting an 80amp breaker for this thing? (or is it 60? the instructions are real clear to me)The race goes to the swift.But sometimes, none of them show up and rest of us have a chance at it.Club Pres. http://hondaclub.caLincoln SP135 PlusLincoln Invertec V250-S
Reply:I would go with the standard NEMA 50 plug and receptacle. That's a fairly standard combo for plug in 220 machines. Your 6 gauge wire from breaker to receptacle will be fine because you can't run 100 percent duty cycle at max output. Dedicated welder circuits can be up rated a bit because of this lower duty cycle. You're supposed to label the circuit and outlet as Welder Only if you do that. Like DSW says, most of the stuff you stick weld will be at 150A or less anyway which means the machine will be drawing much less current from the panel. Lincoln's specs are for running the machine flat out at max duty cycle. You'll likely never approach that with what you are doing.Also, you won't be 'switching your MIG tank' over to do TIG because TIG needs 100 percent Argon, while your MIG is likely 75/25 Ar/CO2. You'll need to budget for another tank, unless you want to have the tank emptied and refilled each time you want to 'switch it over'. PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdadOK..  Well, I've already committed to running 6 gauge in the conduit, and that covers me up to 50amps at least. So I won't melt anything in there. For the electrician, he has to match the breaker to the plug. If I put a 30amp plug on the machine, that dictates the outlet type, which dictates the breaker. But is 30amp sufficient?
Reply:OK... I think I get the picture. I'll have the electrician bring back the 50 amp breaker and outlet, AND a cord to match for the machine. This way, I'm covered should one of you guys ever drop in and want to give it  a go! But Papa, you've created a new question for me: pure or mixed argon. I was under the impression that both the TIG or MIG would use the mix. So I researched it on the site and now understand that I need pure argon for the TIG AND to do aluminum with the little MIG. I MUST used mixed gas for the MIG on steels. Right?The race goes to the swift.But sometimes, none of them show up and rest of us have a chance at it.Club Pres. http://hondaclub.caLincoln SP135 PlusLincoln Invertec V250-S
Reply:Yes.  100% argon is for tig and alum mig. "Mix" is typically used for steel mig.There are exceptions for specialized applications, but the above would take care of your situation and not confuse you any more than we already have..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by xrdadI was under the impression that both the TIG or MIG would use the mix. So I researched it on the site and now understand that I need pure argon for the TIG AND to do aluminum with the little MIG. I MUST used mixed gas for the MIG on steels. Right?
Reply:Ok... so now I need another bottle LOL! You know, when it comes time to build the infamous first project - The welder cart - it's gonna be as big as a truck! Papa, can you recommend a spool gun for the 135 plus I have? Or if anyone has experience on just how bad that will work? Keeping in mind that it has more to do with trying it to see if I want to take it further later. I can't spend too much on it, as I'll never get my money back. I don't plan to build an aluminum trailer nor a high speed bicycle, but I'd like to see what I can do with it SAFELY. The Lincoln guys 'claim' the kit will push the aluminum through, and at $75 it was maybe worth trying. A bird's next each time I use though won't impress me much.Last edited by xrdad; 09-17-2013 at 02:26 PM.Reason: typoThe race goes to the swift.But sometimes, none of them show up and rest of us have a chance at it.Club Pres. http://hondaclub.caLincoln SP135 PlusLincoln Invertec V250-S
Reply:Biggest issue with your little mig is the max output. a 180 amp class mix maxed out will do 1/8" alum. Because you are close to maxed out with both wire speed and "amperage" you won't have a lot of adjustability. You'd be better off with a bigger machine, say 200 amp, because you will have more room to adjust things. Alum is a great heat sink and because of this it takes a lot more output than similar thicknesses of steel.Small 110v 130-140 amp class migs lack the power to do a good job on 1/8" alum. At best they usually max out at between 1/16" and 3/32" with the power set at max and the wire speed just about maxed out. Problem is alum mig is a "hot" process, and it's poorly suited to thinner materials. About  the point you are hot enough to spray alum, you are too hot for the thin material and you blow holes in it. Turn down the heat and now you are too cold to do decent welds... it's a very fine line.Because you need to run the wire speed at almost max running small ( .030) alum wire, it takes almost nothing to birdsnest even a shorter mig gun like what are typically found on smaller machines. Some have had fair results keeping the gun lead dead straight or shortening the lead to under 5' in length to reduce friction. Spool guns solve that long feed issue. However they don't solve your power output issue. Your small machine still lacks the power needed to reliably spray alum wire except under perfect conditions. As soon as you start trying to run off a 15 amp circuit or use an extension cord and you loose more power, you drop below that minimum power window.Can it be done? Yes. Can it be done well? Generally no. The cost of the spoolgun seldom is justified by what it can produce. You really need to go big with alum..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan