cooling water tank

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I am trying to make a water cooler to cool the water temp down in a 200 gallon minnow tank at a bait store for minnows.  I ran water through two transmission cooler type radiators in a freezer, it didn't work as I expected.  It barely cooled the water at all, only a couple of degrees.  Anyone else in the business say's to cool large quanities of water in a refrigerator (not freezer) then pump it through.  I am afraid if I had a breakdown and freeze it would be a flood.  Now I know there has been a lot of kegerator/jockey box  threads, isn't this the same thing?   I am pumping lukewarm water through a cooler, expecting cold water at the other end. My design isn't working. I can't even have a cold beer until I figure it out!
Reply:Add a fan to the coils, or submerge the coils in a bucket of water in the fridge portion,
Reply:Cooling tower.From local apartments to nuclear power plants, they need to cool stuff too!  And the refrigeration cycle is too expensive.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fabn4FunCooling tower.From local apartments to nuclear power plants, they need to cool stuff too!  And the refrigeration cycle is too expensive.
Reply:Put a bucket of water in a fridge (freezer would work better but you'd have to lightly anti-freeze the water). Then make a long coil out of soft copper tubing and submerge it in the bucket. Then just pump it through. It will take some time to cool the water (basically as much time as it would take 200 gallons of water to coool if you put it in the fridge... aka a Long time.)Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:There is barely room for a glass of water in my fridge nevermind a bucket.. heh.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:blackbart, they guys are trying to tell you that a liquid to gas (air in the reefer or fridge) is not as effective as a liquid to liquid (cold water tank/bucket in fridge/freezer) heat exchanger.Copper or aluminum both transfer heat pretty fast from one liquid to another, so the copper coil in a cooled bucket or tank is a good bet.  But the same copper coil with a fan blowing outdoor air is not going to remove that much heat.Another way, depending on the amount of heat (BTU's) you're trying to remove, is to run a fan on the radiators with a trickle of water over the outside dripping on the radiator(s). The evaporating water will cool the liquid inside, but not as much as the refrigerator or freezer with antifreeze would.another way is to remove the coils inside the fridge and put them (without loosing the refrigerant charge) into the tank, then the reefer coolant pump is going to be working to pull out the BTU's in the minnow tank not the re-fridge box.cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:what I would think to do is take an air conditioner setup and submerge the evaporator in a tank with another "cooler" also submerged in the same tank plumbed to the tank your trying to cool... another possible alternative may be to submerge the AC evaporator directly in the tank your trying to cool. using a refrigerator or freezer is just wasting one energy interchange from the evaporator to air, then air to liquid, the liquid to liquid, reducing this will increase efficiency and effectiveness and reduce a lot of bulk and wasted energy and spacemiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:find a water fountain, and gut it, old coke machine would work also.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:I was amazed it didn't work at all, maybe a couple degree drop at best.  I thought of putting the aluminum radiators in a container of antifreeze, but was afraid if the the circulation pump failed I might have a flooding liability. Are all jockey box's and kegerators based on ice water filled designs?  I don't know anything about cooling towers.  It sound expensive for the size project they want.  The other local bait shops run large quanities of water into storage buckets into refrigerators, but I am dealing with a freezer.   What about earth temp (68 degrees?) I was also  thinking of trying to cool the water by running coils several feet under ground, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel.
Reply:Just in case you don't know, there are commercially available units for this purpose. A while back, I helped change one out. If you need info, let me know and I can TRY to find out who made it."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocad6what I would think to do is take an air conditioner setup and submerge the evaporator in a tank with another "cooler" also submerged in the same tank plumbed to the tank your trying to cool... another possible alternative may be to submerge the AC evaporator directly in the tank your trying to cool. using a refrigerator or freezer is just wasting one energy interchange from the evaporator to air, then air to liquid, the liquid to liquid, reducing this will increase efficiency and effectiveness and reduce a lot of bulk and wasted energy and space
Reply:If your in somewhat of a low-humidity area, .a cooling tower may do the trick.  We used to have a couple of plastic extruding machines (old Wamo Hulu-Hoop processors).  These machines needed flow of chilled water to keep them from over heating. .  My old man kludge up a couple of water cooling towers over 50 gallon drums.  The tower was a labyrinth of red-wood slats with water flowing over them.    Water entered the top hot; and by the time in fell into the drum, it was cool.   If your in a dry climate, it works great.  It may take some "Red-Neck" engineering to get er done....The office water cooler trick also sounds good.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbart   What about earth temp (68 degrees?) I was also  thinking of trying to cool the water by running coils several feet under ground, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel.
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocad6what I would think to do is take an air conditioner setup and submerge the evaporator in a tank...
Reply:And to add more to the geothermal idea, when you return the water to the tank, splash the discharge flow to rotate a waterwheel or have some spray with a lot of air contact to put oxygen into the water and maybe get a tad more cooling via evaporation. Kill more than one bird at a time.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartI am trying to make a water cooler to cool the water temp down in a 200 gallon minnow tank at a bait store for minnows.  I ran water through two transmission cooler type radiators in a freezer, it didn't work as I expected.  It barely cooled the water at all, only a couple of degrees.  Anyone else in the business say's to cool large quanities of water in a refrigerator (not freezer) then pump it through.  I am afraid if I had a breakdown and freeze it would be a flood.  Now I know there has been a lot of kegerator/jockey box  threads, isn't this the same thing?   I am pumping lukewarm water through a cooler, expecting cold water at the other end. My design isn't working. I can't even have a cold beer until I figure it out!
Reply:Just keep in mind this is supposed to be a bait store with minnows in a tank.So how much income can minnows generate???Best to first figure out what the money restrictions are. They are going to burn more power than ever get back from minnows. All sorts of clap trap might also give legal or insurance problems.Could just move the tank outside and bury it in the ground. Could also just build a wood ice box, put in big chunks of ice, let it drain into the tank. I would be thinking super cheap until I knew better. Remember the overall goal is for the bait guy to make money. That is saying cheap and simple, if not the answer will be; "Let me think about it, will get back to you".If business is really booming, he can get a chiller unit made for the purpose for like a tad over a thousand. This might be typical.http://www.wholesalebait.com/pdf/livingstream.pdfGet a fancy new tank for like $2500.
Reply:The season for minnows is almost over, so I have time to rethink the design for them.  But really they break even at the best as far as income from them, it is a convenience factor with the other baits sold.  I know evaporative coolers work well in the area, so maybe a cooling tower would work, I have never looked into them.  I am tempted to bury some sort of heat exchanger, I know water comes out of a underground pipe cold. Thanks for all the ideas, it gives me something to think about!
Reply:The chiller idea might also work, he has over $1000 into it now.
Reply:Where are you located? I set up tanks all the time in new and old shops for bait. I am part of a family bait wholesale and retail business in Wisconsin.Do you have city or well water? Recirculating filtered water? any aerators, agitators or air pump? How many and how big of bait bins in the tank? How many gallons of bait do you normally hold in the bins?
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manJust in case you don't know, there are commercially available units for this purpose. A while back, I helped change one out. If you need info, let me know and I can TRY to find out who made it.
Reply:VPTThis is in northern Ca.  The bin is 250 gallons, 1 bin.  We have kept it in a seperate room under a swamp cooler in the past with marginal success. The water is filtered and aerated with either a bubbler or a splasher.  We cooled it one year by running fresh water (well) in every so often on a timer, but that was unpredictable. It was however cool enough for the minnows to survive,We have also dumped ice in it, but the resort is so busy, that gets forgotten, so it's not dependable.  thats why I am leaning toward some sort of buried pipe heat exchanger. Their supplier changed and now the minnows are arriving from much further away, and thus are more fragile.