Rather long pool fence... follows grade...

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I have a rather long pool fence to fabricate and install, im not really sure how I should go about it though. The fence has to follow the grade,over most of the length the grade  is fairly flat, but there's one section where it drops at like a 35° angle. My concern, If I were to Fab each panel, is that unless I measure the pitch of each panel perfectly, and make no mistakes fabricating, that when I get to the bottom the fence will either be too high or too low.  The fence is 170 ft long, the one good thing is that there is 2 gates in the fence, so that gives me a little wiggle room to adjust.  So option 1: Fab each panel with 1 post and then install them, one panel at a time, welding them together as I go... Or option 2: put the posts in first, then take the measurements for the panels, then Fab the panels, and install them.Option 2 I think is a better way to insure that it comes out right, but the problem is this fence is being galvanized so I want to do the least amount of welding on site as possible. Im not sure which way to go, I would like some advice from u guys who do this type of thing all the time. Im just afraid of messing up on the pitch halfway through... Any advice would be kindly appreciated. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Or maybe there's some other options u guys could suggest.... http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Can you mark out where the fence posts will lay out with upside down paint?  Then rent/borrow/steal a rotary laser with a grade stick and hit all the post locations?  This would give you a baseline, rather than relying on the height of the panel before it to go off of.
Reply:That's a great idea, my dad has a nice laser, idk if he'll let me borrow it though... lol  so where can I get a grade stick? Home depot?  I really think that would work good, if I do that, it would give me exactly the pitch of every panel. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:I've never had to buy one, mine came with my laser....I'd probably start at a lumberyard, concrete supply, etc.  Online as a last ditch effort.
Reply:i wouldn't bother following the terrain.  i would step the panels down the appropriate amount.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Put the posts in first because they never go exactly where you want them. Once they are in and solid you can get dead accurate measurements..You would probably still use the lazier to figure all the angles. A stepped fence looks alright but what do you use to fill the gaps in the bottom? You can weld the panels in and use zinc stick to cover your weld while it is still hot. Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by Dualiei wouldn't bother following the terrain.  i would step the panels down the appropriate amount.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerPut the posts in first because they never go exactly where you want them. Once they are in and solid you can get dead accurate measurements..You would probably still use the lazier to figure all the angles. A stepped fence looks alright but what do you use to fill the gaps in the bottom? You can weld the panels in and use zinc stick to cover your weld while it is still hot. Mac
Reply:Use Montage by Ameristar fencing, best invention since pepsi lolI forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23That's a great idea, my dad has a nice laser, idk if he'll let me borrow it though... lol  so where can I get a grade stick? Home depot?  I really think that would work good, if I do that, it would give me exactly the pitch of every panel.
Reply:Thanks DSW, that gives me a good grasp of what I need to do, ill just use a piece of furring strip for a marking stick, would painting it white help? http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Thanks DSW that gives me a good idea of what I need to do, ill just use a peice of furring for a marking stick. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:I think Harbor freight has a rotary level for $50 with a 100' range... that would make it somewhat easier to shoot these grades and get yourself laid out. I just dont know how much i would trust a HF level...I would do it like this.1. Drive some 1/2" or 3/4" rebar pins into the ground where the posts will go. 2. Shoot Grades as DSW suggested & Draw up a plan (leave those pins there after so you know you get the posts in the exact same spot.)3. Fab/Install If while you are shooting grades you mark the pins where the bottom of the fence is going to be (we usually tie some caution tape or something to mark grade) you can run mason line from post to post to mock up where the fence is going to sit... you can also run a line at the top of the fence if your pins are long enough... That will help you check your maf and angles when you lay it out on paper... other than that the strings are probably overkill.I really like DSW's suggestion with shooting a marking stick as opposed to a rod - i have always used a rod and made a drawing or written grades down as a list... but i think a stick will make it just as easy for you to shoot grades quickly and then go home to figure everything else out. I would also definitely mark your ref point (DSW suggested pool equip slab) with some paint so that when you go back you shoot the exact same spot.EDIT:: Here is that HF level -- http://www.harborfreight.com/motoriz...kit-92801.html  like i said idk if i would trust it. --- OK is just read the review, apparently it gets shaky after about 30' EFF this thing and use a real level.Last edited by Silverado; 09-18-2012 at 02:46 PM.Miller Dynasty 300 DXMiller CST280Miller Maxstar 150 STH
Reply:Yeah im kinda Leary myself about a HF laser, i mean it would probly be ok, but what if it wasn't? Im gonna try to borrow my dads laser, he does acoustical ceilings he has a nice one.I do like the idea about the pins though. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:What surface are you mounting to?  Are you coring or using plates?   How long is the pitched section? is it continuous 35 degrees or does it vary ?I would do as much welding prior to install as possible.  If you are concerned about spacing then take the bottom rail and cut it to exact lengths onsite.   Or even woods studs work lay them on the ground and mark and make notes. You can even mark the pitch on the wood using a level.  If on concrete, you could also use a large roll of  heavy paper for marking hole locations.  Find a good fastening system for attaching panels, other than welding.In nothing special about the fence, I would seriously consider Lawsonswelding's  suggestion.
Reply:Hi,Cheap survey equipment is scary. If I had to use it, I'd setup the laser, and shoot the house, and drive a nail for a benchmark. Then before and after each post installation shot, go back and check against your benchmark to make certain it's still reading correctly.Jeff
Reply:I don't know about US codes , but over here , whilst a pool fence needs to be a min. of 1200mm high , it also needs to be 1200 mm in a radius from the ground or any step.Doesn't come into play on level but at 35° will substantially increase your vertical height. A "trap your young players " over here . I would assume whilst there will be variances in specifics , I doubt if there are many differences in design intent between US and Oz.Suggest you check.Without more info on site specifics I would lean towards 1 post and 1 Panel , then site join . My preference would be for a mechanical joining over welding as (DSW ?) mentioned.BrettA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:This may explain it better .That  Section is mainly about our NCZ (Non Climbable Zone ) but the 1200mm dimentions refer to total height and how it is measured. Attached ImagesA good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:I hope your in this job very "fat"  otherwise your going to eat your arse.   Above and beyond what is stated above i would definately layout with pins and stakes.  survey with a laser,  either use a story pole or make a very detailed diagram and lay out all dimensions using the same data point.    the go back to your shop and do your deductions and layouts.OR build a jig for spacing the rail, set your posts, top and bottom rails and bill the whole  shebang on site.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Ok so I went to these jobsite yesterday,  and thanks to DSW and his diagram I used a furring strip for a story stick, and used a beeping laser detector to find the laser beam, after I layed out the post locations, finding g the pitch with the laser went really quickly.  The pitch does vary and its over about 120 ft that's pitched. There's only one panel that has a sharp pitch (drops 25") all the rest are only a couple of inches each. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Show a design of the panel. If they are just 1 1/2 horizontals with square tube pickets you can build them to where the will 'adjust' for grade changes. To do so you simply lay out the horizontals on your table, with the verticals on top. then weld only from the bottom side, and only one side of the picket to each horizontal. when you are done each vertical will have only two welds on it, one at the very top of the vertical, and one at the very bottom. You can then weld one end of the section in place and pull down on the other until it is at the desired height, trim to fit in between the posts and weld. I recall seeing panels made like this commercially and IIRC they called them rackable panels.
Reply:The panels are 1x1/2 punched channel with 1/2 square pickets.  Im goin to do like tapwelder suggested and make each panel with 2 tabs to fasten to the previous post, I want to eliminate as much welding as possible on the job site. Im thinking of making elongated holes on the tabs, so ill have at least a little bit of adjustment on each panel. http://www.philswelding.com