48' railing

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So I got my first decent sized job, after I went out on my own... a 48' railing, to replace a railing that was damaged by a tree falling on it.This is where it is going: My truck with the railing sections, I made 4  12' sections Putting them in, tacking them together:   My inverter welder  (I really really really wish I had a miller maxstar)  http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Surprisingly though, that little welder doesn't do too bad, I use 1/16" rods. It gets the job done...A little lambs tongue:  And its done!!! Install went well, core drilled into concrete, turned out pretty good. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:contrats man. keep them going ...Miller Pro 300 SS w/ cat Miller Bobcat 250Miller Diversion 165 Miller 211Miller Xtreme 375Miller 12vsMiller Dynasty 200 DX Miller Passport Plus w/ Spool GunMiller 30a spoolmaticLincoln AC225 Buzz Box VictorMathey Dearman - H&M
Reply:Thnx, I have a couple more jobs lined up http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:"It's done?"What about the open space at the stair top?...or did somebody decide, 'Hell-no, we don't needto make it to code, since it was unsafe before.'Despite what non-code advocates think, the Nurembergdefense 'I just did what I was told to do'.....has novalidity when things go South and other parties are lookingfor people to blame.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1347934517 Attached ImagesBlackbird
Reply:They hired me to replace what was there, that's what I did. My railing is actually 3"  closer to the gate then the old one. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Most codes wouldn't call for railing there as the drop isn't very high.
Reply:Originally Posted by BobMost codes wouldn't call for railing there as the drop isn't very high.
Reply:Same gap is on the other side of the stairs also, post #1 picture #4.MM211Rigid chopsawDelta Drill Press
Reply:How about a pic at the same elevation as top rail from one end to the other. You also might say something to them about the gaps. Might get some more work out of it.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson"It's done?"What about the open space at the stair top?...or did somebody decide, 'Hell-no, we don't needto make it to code, since it was unsafe before.'Despite what non-code advocates think, the Nurembergdefense 'I just did what I was told to do'.....has novalidity when things go South and other parties are lookingfor people to blame.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1347934517
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson"It's done?"What about the open space at the stair top?...or did somebody decide, 'Hell-no, we don't needto make it to code, since it was unsafe before.'Despite what non-code advocates think, the Nurembergdefense 'I just did what I was told to do'.....has novalidity when things go South and other parties are lookingfor people to blame.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1347934517
Reply:Interesting dilemma.  However, I would be interested in knowing what is wrong with the gap.  Remove the gate post and there is no post to form a gap.  What is the  code for ending the guard rail adjacent to a step is it different than if it were ground.  I wouldn't think the drop is large enough to require guard rail at that point. I will look it up.  Though somebody must have it at hand.   That said, I would have run it at least even with the landing.The rails looks nice. Congratulations on all the work you are getting.
Reply:Originally Posted by MetalMan23They hired me to replace what was there, that's what I did. My railing is actually 3"  closer to the gate then the old one.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW... It's not just building inspectors. I've been on a job that the fire marshal shut down because he thought the job needed to have permits pulled ( even though in the end it didn't). 6 months of fighting with the township and delays just because the fire marshal drove by and suck his nose in the job that had zero to do with fire safety...
Reply:Yeah I do have liability. Thanks for the insight guys, I will be more careful in the future. Last thing I want is a lawsuit. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Looks good man, and congrats your your new business, and incoming work!-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Unfortunately, we will always be held to a higher standard. I'd rather be remebered as the guy who pointed out the deficiency, its the ethical thing to do.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson"It's done?"What about the open space at the stair top?...or did somebody decide, 'Hell-no, we don't needto make it to code, since it was unsafe before.'Despite what non-code advocates think, the Nurembergdefense 'I just did what I was told to do'.....has novalidity when things go South and other parties are lookingfor people to blame.http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1347934517
Reply:Originally Posted by DieselDon16He Should be fine...  It doesnt look Higher than 27",  Im judging from the picture...  I could be wrong.
Reply:Around here, the code for new guard railing calls for 42" high, 4" ball rule, and for residential you must have guard railing for anything with a fall of 30" or more. You can replace an existing guard railing that is at least 36" inches high at the existing height, but any replacement will need to meet the 4" ball rule. I think this railing would pass inspection around here.What would not pass inspection, is the gate at the top of the stairs. That's a definite no no. And it blocks the handrail, another no no.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:I was refering to the gap between the Rail in Post #5.  The distance between the groung and the landing looks to be under 27" high.Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:Oh ok, yeah its less then 27", and its goin down stairs, its not a drop off, otherwise there would be a problem. http://www.philswelding.com
Reply:Metalman,do you know the purpose of the gate at the top of the stairs? Just curious since it was put there to stop something and it certainly won't stop a child, well the gate will but the openings on both sides of the gate won't.I'm not commenting on your work just suggesting contacting them to get you more work Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Metalman,do you know the purpose of the gate at the top of the stairs? Just curious since it was put there to stop something and it certainly won't stop a child, well the gate will but the openings on both sides of the gate won't.I'm not commenting on your work just suggesting contacting them to get you more workFor all the complaints about the gap between the rail and the inner handrail, according to the UBC, the inner handrail is not even required to be there. It only requires one hand rail. A rail on the outside of the stair meets the obligation. Always plenty of people to bitch about the work of others and codes, but very few people actually understand ALL of the codes and how they work  together, or can differentiate between the commercial and residential codes. Ideally, yes there would be two continuous rails going around the balcony and down the stairs, but it is not required by building code. Also ADA is NOT required on residential applications (at least not in this state at this time), otherwise we wouldn't have bath tubs in our houses, or stairs to the second floor. Give the guy a break. He did a nice job, and his work IS to code. Needs  to be a little more knowledgeable on local building codes and permitting, but looks like he is off to a good start.
Reply:UBC, IBC, Fire Code, Life Safety NFPA 101, what am I getting at, depending on the jurisdiction you will have to meet several codes, and when they overlap you often find language that says the most "stringent" will prevail. As for the Fire Marshall not having jurisdiction because it is not fire related your are incorrect. Can't speak for other areas but in CT the proper way to get permits is to submit plans to the building official and the office of the Fire Marshall, this is the law on anything more than 1 or 2 family residence. This is a stairwell and can't tell from the limited pictures but if it serves and "exit" and is" route to the Public Way" it is under the life safety code, and or Fire Marshall and Building official. I am a former inspector for the Fire Marshalls Office, I would be interested in your rail , not for the reasons you think but for the reasons others have stated , "Liability" if I know about it I am supposed to verify it meets code, If I come later to this facility and miss or ignore something with an installation like this I will also be liable for any injuries anyone sustains. Courts are very complex and far reaching.   What am I getting at, take the time to study the IBC, UBC and Life Safety 101 as  well as the Fire Safety codes, You can use them to protect yourself and also know what is requiered and even better still , not required, yes I said not required as I have seen other inspectors force contractors to go to extreme measures at un do costs without having any basis in fact to require them to do so. The contractors usually grumble and do it to keep the peace. I am not saying go to war with the authorities having jurisdiction, I'm saying you are better armed with facts, and also protect yourself.  Are you thinking about doing security bars as well?  That is a whole new issue, big demand but proceed with caution.  How many of you guys know what an "exit" is . I'm sure you all think you know, but good to have the legal definition in your particular jurisdiction. Also difference between exit and "means of escape".    Once again, you think it is just a rail,  there are a lot of legalities and as I said, Courts are far reaching. Good looking rail, In CT basic is 30" drops needs a rail, but a stairway has to be protected by gurards, whom, see where it can get confusing?     Your work looks great, just protect yourself, and you also may have to educate customers and property owners as they often do not know what is required.  If they say just put back what was here , then you will have to decide to do it or walk away, That's the tough one.Last edited by kolot; 09-20-2012 at 04:56 PM."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Kolot,My friend who owns a restaurant/ bar just dealt with the Fire Marshal against the Building Inspector on a smoking area:Inspector said "not allowed" but the Fire Marshal said it was allowed and safe.Guess the inspector didn't like that so he called ABC and then they showed up and said the smoking area IS ok, but you can't have alcohol and smoking in the same areaSo he had to take out the outside bar and post an employee at the entrance so no one walks out there with a cocktail.Phucked up.anyhoo- back to the railing Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:NIce work, looks good!
Reply:regarding that gap between wooden post and termination of your rail, aside from the code, having it terminate in an L shape that brings it back to the post stiffens it quite a bit, the top of stair sees a lot lateral loading when people swing on them at the top of the stairs.id try to talk them into replacing those wooden pos gates with matching iron, and you could tie that into the railing.
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty rippleregarding that gap between wooden post and termination of your rail, aside from the code, having it terminate in an L shape that brings it back to the post stiffens it quite a bit, the top of stair sees a lot lateral loading when people swing on them at the top of the stairs.id try to talk them into replacing those wooden pos gates with matching iron, and you could tie that into the railing.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Metalman,do you know the purpose of the gate at the top of the stairs? Just curious since it was put there to stop something and it certainly won't stop a child, well the gate will but the openings on both sides of the gate won't.I'm not commenting on your work just suggesting contacting them to get you more work