6010/6011 Welding Methods Put To The Test

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Hey guys!!So, a few months back I made a build video on one of my projects, and in it, I showed myself putting in a first pass of 6011 for a three bead "T" joint, and in the video I ran the "whip-and-pause technique, ya know, forward a step, back a half step, repet...A couple people in the "comments" section told me if I just made little half-moon motions, it'd be easier and look better.An evening of welding up some scrap in my shop with the "cursive-e-pattern-thing" and I was hooked, it sure was easier than whip and pause, and it gives a nicer "row of dimes" look as well.Fast forward a couple weeks back, and I made a video about "How To Weld With 6010 and 6011" in which I showed both techniques, and then I decided to put them to the test to learn which was the stronger one of the two.What can I say, the results really surprised me, but to be fair, I didnt really know what to expect. When you run whip-and-pause, it feels like you're getting a little more penetration, and burning in a little better, but the "circly" motion gives better tie-in to the edges/toes. It was a really fun test, and I know how I'm going to be running all my flat and horizontal 6010/6011 welds from now on, turns out the circly-motion thing is significantly stronger than the whip-and-pause... The video tells more Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy the video, and everyones having a good weekend [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:pretty scientificalESAB Heliarc 252
Reply:Scientific is boring and makes me yawn; this is more like NERDY and comical or amusing, almost; but I didnt waste the bandwidth to watch the vid.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlauSchuhpretty scientifical
Reply:Hey Lanse, that was entertaining!You're a better welder than a sledge-hammer guy!  You gotta work on your swing! Enjoyed the video. Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Nice video and entertaining.  How did the welds look after being broken?  Was there a difference in how the broken welds looked post-destruction?Harbor Freight Inverter 130 amp DC stick/tig (sold, really!)Lincoln Square Wave Tig 175 AC/DC stick/Tig
Reply:Hi Lanse, maybe that's the kind of test I should have made to appease the guys who criticised the plasma welding projects I posted......they didn't like the idea of a different technique and got the thread terminated.......as if I cared a rat's.I wonder how strong the joint would have been if you welded the other side too......and as it was a stick welding method, I'd say it would be unbreakable, even with the sledge hammer at full bore.Which leads on to say that when a piece of equipment is over engineered it exceeds the design requirements and just costs more for no more gain.By that I mean if you built a bridge to carry a ten ton load without design formular using guesstimation, rule of thumb methods and making it as strong as you think is good, it goes without saying that if the bridge was still standing with a 100 ton load on it, the bridge was grossly overengineered and cost more than was necessary even though the cost was not a factor that made it extravegant. Which means if the joint on the test piece you welded, in the video, had to withstand a certain required loading, how much weld and in what area would the weld be in excess of a "strong" joint.The test shows that if you pile enough weld on it becomes unbreakeable in any circumstances, eventually requiring so much force just to tear the metal apart.I would further say that if a smaller weld was used on both sides of the joint the weld would still exceed the "scientific" 10 hammer blows to make it break.I liked the video even though it was of no practical value for a test....there being no actual force measurements in the hammer loading as it hit the steel plate...practical yes, but engineeringly factual no.Supposing you had also welded the other side and the joint resisted all efforts to break it at the seam and just left you with a piece of plate bent over and completely flat without tearing the joint seam weld, would that mean the weld was a recommended method to resist the breaking force?The answer would have to be..... welded in excess of a requirement that made the two pieces of metal act as if there were no joint and the piece was one piece.This is good, but well overengineered.Possibly 3 small welds on either side would make the job just as strong as you need without actually "falling off in flight" from due wear and tear.Most people attack a welded job with the desire to add as much weld metal where they can "just in case" to ensure that the parts stayed together long enough even though the forces to be withstood would exceed the strength of the material which would fail first in an ultimate tensile strength test.Hot rolled steel has an ultimate tensile strength of approx 27 tons per square inch, so if a piece of steel flat bar with a cross sectional area of 1 square inch was welded with a deep veed butt joint both sides to a similar piece of steel and a tensile test was applied to that joint, I would expect a tensile test to show that the joint would fail at 27 tons when pulled apart longtitudenally.The weld zone would have to be flush with the surface and not "capped"to be above it.A test of this nature would be difficult to do using simple testing procedures like the bend test, but a jig could be made for a hydraulic shop press to give the results.....similar to  suspending the test pieces from a beam and attempting to lift a 30 ton load while observing the weld zone with a scale to see the break point.The test would only be valid if conclusions were drawn as to why and how the steel failed and in which area for a number of test pieces.I realise that you were just comparing the strength of the welding method in weaving or waving, so hitting it with a hammer a few times would, even though agricultural, indicate a result.Ian.Last edited by puddytat; 09-18-2012 at 01:48 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytatHi Lanse, maybe that's the kind of test I should have made to appease the guys who criticised the plasma welding projects I posted......they didn't like the idea of a different technique and got the thread terminated.......as if I cared a rat's..
Reply:Lanse , I was trying to be smart a$s but you complimented me. Thanks, now I have to hitch hike on this thread with some nerdy stuf because Puddytat has sparked my interest.Puddytat, you said your thread on plasma welding was annihilated because someone didnt like the idea or technique. I never saw that thread but Im interested. Did you use a plasma torch to weld or did you come up with a new design. Techniquly, all welding is plasma of sorts but when I think of plasma, gas welding comes to my mind .What I know about plasma is; plasma is the 4th state of matter (kinda like an in situ thing). Solid , liquid and gas are the other three states of matter. Another plasma definition states, the molecules are ionized by intense heat. So, I had to ask a sorta dumb question and that was, if the Knoble gases are already in their ionic state, then, how do they become a plasma? The answer was obvious, you use a high enuf Voltage to xcite them, duh. So when TIG welding, the Argon or knoble gas becomes a plasma to create a puddle for welding metal.I dont think this was the Plasma welding you were talking about. I would like to know your technique but it could become a bad subject if they annihilated your thread so, if you dont school me I understand but I would appreciate any knowledge you have to share.In case you forgot the Knoble gases; Helium, Neon, Argon, Xenon and Krypton.In case you forgot what makes them knoble or Ionized: their valence bands are full and cannot xcept anymore electrons. Helium has one valence band with 2 electrons, Neon has 8 electron in the valence with 10 electrons total. Argon has 8 electrons in the outer band with 18 total. Thats as far as I can go by memory but salt, NaCl (sodium chloride) is an ion that matches the outer valence of Argon. Sort of.This is becoming lengthy, nerdy and boring so I will stop now but, Hydrogen and Oxygen and deionized water or pure H two O does not conduct electricty period. When you take a bath, you ad body salts, grease, dirt and whatever metals you were working on. This stuf makes the water conduct eletricity. One more thing, I consider any voltage over 65 volts as High Voltage. Does anyone else have a definition for Hi Voltage?
Reply:Epic. Lanse is the most entertaining guy on this forum. I wish I had that much direction when I was that young.Lincoln Squarewave 175Ex-aircraft sheet metal guy
Reply:That was good LanseBut you need a laser site on that hammer...LOLBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Why would someone "not waste the bandwidth" but then bother to post a reply?Lincoln Squarewave 175Ex-aircraft sheet metal guy
Reply:entertaining video.do you by any chance have a hydraulic press?  It was already suggested that you could (should) make a bend tester.  This way you can test a bit more 'scientifically'.. I am sure you could even find the specs of what radius to put on the die in oder to match standard testing.miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:I think Lanse's tester (arm, back and sledge) served the purpose. Scientificaly or statistacly, you should have a minimum of three samples of data. That way you could get the "SD" standard deviation.BTW Lanse, if you dont think when swinging, you might have better average of hitting the target. Thats what I do anyway.
Reply:Does anyone ever weld in a straight line anymore or is that not cool?Also did it not occur that after swinging a sledge hammer a few dozen times, the last blow would not have the same amount of force as the first? I don't know about you but I get tired.
Reply:Force is equall to Mass times Accelleration.   F=MaThe mass is constant, as long as Lanse swings with the xact same speed every time, then the Force will remain constant. But I have to agree, after a dozen or so swings, speed will slow a bit.
Reply:Did it ever occur to some of you that he wasn't trying to pass this off as a scientific test? View some of the other 400+ videos on his channel and you'll see that he doesn't try to act like some welding God or know it all, he basically just documents a lot of his projects and does a pretty good job of it, imo. I watched several of his videos and haven't found one yet where he misleads anyone nor does he go overboard with his opinions, he tends to put the video and information out there and let the viewer decide. Pretty impressive, especially for a young man of his age.Powcon 400SM2-PD60 wire feedersMiller XR controlAlumapro push/pull gunSpeedglas 9100xBFH
Reply:Thanks Bryan27.  I wanted to post a reply yesterday but I just refrained.Keep up the good Lanse.ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:I didnt meen to offend anyone, was just having fun as I think Lanse was with the sledge. Some people need to relax, breathe  and well you decide. Have a good day